Author Topic: The XO - OLPC  (Read 1519 times)

rag-time4

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 02:49:03 PM »


This is quite possibly the most foolish thing that I've read in weeks.  Basic educational needs are easily met with traditional methods.  Don't intimate that it's required / easier to learn to read from a screen than it is from a piece of paper, that typing is more important than hand writing, or that basic math is best learned by using a calculator.


Well, if "basic educational needs" have nothing to do with computers, you're probably right...

But I think the idea with the laptop program is to make computer technology more accessible and fascilitate computer-based learning.

Not quite.  That's built-in networking between machines, and not a connection to the internet. 


You're right, but what I meant was that a large amount of infrastructure is built in to the machines themselves. You're right that a connection to the internet is still required but one connection to the internet can connect many machines at once due to the built in infrastructure of mesh networking.

I think that it makes sense as a cost-cutting measure.


That was kinda the point in my previous post.  Infrastructure is absolutely necessary, regardless of how powerful the connected computers are.  Who will provide the connection to the internet or at least a neighboring village?  Who will teach people how to use these laptops?  Who will maintain them?  These laptops would be most useful as digital textbooks, but who will provide the .pdf textbooks?



These are all excellent questions.

I just started looking at all this today... but it looks like they are committed to making the machine open-source, so that anyone can provide .pdf textbooks or whatever else.

As far as developing maintenance / technician infrastructure, that's a great point. I think that any government that looking seriously at buying the XO machine is asking the same question, especially as big companies like intel try to sell their own versions of affordable laptops. I found this article to be very interesting in terms of competition for the XO.

Turbo D

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2007, 03:54:45 PM »
I don't see why they say Intel is damaging their scheme. Intel is just after the same thing; selling cheapo laptops to poor dumb people who don't know any better. Seriously, I could build a way faster computer from parts for the cost of one of those pos laptops. How can anyone bare to use a comp that is under 1 ghz? lol. These companies will make big profits if their scheme is successful. The parts in those laptops have no cash value these days.

SignOfZeta

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2007, 04:00:10 PM »
I don't see why they say Intel is damaging their scheme. Intel is just after the same thing; selling cheapo laptops to poor dumb people who don't know any better. Seriously, I could build a way faster computer from parts for the cost of one of those pos laptops. How can anyone bare to use a comp that is under 1 ghz? lol. These companies will make big profits if their scheme is successful. The parts in those laptops have no cash value these days.

You are such a goddamn idiot.

rag-time4

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 05:11:01 PM »
I don't see why they say Intel is damaging their scheme. Intel is just after the same thing; selling cheapo laptops to poor dumb people who don't know any better. Seriously, I could build a way faster computer from parts for the cost of one of those pos laptops. How can anyone bare to use a comp that is under 1 ghz? lol. These companies will make big profits if their scheme is successful. The parts in those laptops have no cash value these days.

Turbo... Intel is a for-profit corporation while OLPC (one laptop per child) is non-profit....

You're right that tech-savvy people here can build better computers for the same or less cost, but can you provide home-made laptops in the kinds of numbers that OLPC is shooting for? They are trying to mass-produce a low-cost laptop to increase availability of computer technology on a world-wide scale...

While parts may have no cash value here, they are probably pretty hard to come by in the target areas of the program (are wi-fi adapters laying around in Libya?)

Turbo D

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2007, 05:42:35 PM »
I don't see why they say Intel is damaging their scheme. Intel is just after the same thing; selling cheapo laptops to poor dumb people who don't know any better. Seriously, I could build a way faster computer from parts for the cost of one of those pos laptops. How can anyone bare to use a comp that is under 1 ghz? lol. These companies will make big profits if their scheme is successful. The parts in those laptops have no cash value these days.

You are such a goddamn idiot.

Suck my balls  :P

I don't see why they say Intel is damaging their scheme. Intel is just after the same thing; selling cheapo laptops to poor dumb people who don't know any better. Seriously, I could build a way faster computer from parts for the cost of one of those pos laptops. How can anyone bare to use a comp that is under 1 ghz? lol. These companies will make big profits if their scheme is successful. The parts in those laptops have no cash value these days.

Turbo... Intel is a for-profit corporation while OLPC (one laptop per child) is non-profit....

You're right that tech-savvy people here can build better computers for the same or less cost, but can you provide home-made laptops in the kinds of numbers that OLPC is shooting for? They are trying to mass-produce a low-cost laptop to increase availability of computer technology on a world-wide scale...

While parts may have no cash value here, they are probably pretty hard to come by in the target areas of the program (are wi-fi adapters laying around in Libya?)

I honestly think that both companies are doing it for profit. Olpc IS making a profit mind you. There are a lot of better things that could be done for these countries before going to the computer level, seriously.

SignOfZeta

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2007, 10:49:27 PM »
The reason this is a complex issue is that, yeah, they'd all rather have a burger than a spreadsheet, but when you give a starving child a meal, you are doing a great thing, but in all seriousness he's just going to need another meal in 4 hours. Are you just going to feed this kid with donations forever, or are you going to try to spend that money on the sorts of investments that will allow him, his family, his town, his country to survive on their own?

The power of the internet is really hard to even understand. Its usefulness in the scope of human rights, peace/justice, art and science really can't be overstated. In the end it will make the printing press look like a minor footnote in human evolution. And for those that say "traditional" means of education are just as valid...have you had to buy college textbooks lately? The shit costs *way* more than a $200 computer. And shipping them to Africa...how much does that cost? To update a book you have to re-print the sucker, but a computer can be updated via network. Computers are also much better for learning things on your own, at least for me. What you are trying to teach these people is really important stuff like water treatment, disease prevention, first aid, farming, language skills, really basic, but really important stuff.

As for being able to buy/build something better from off the shelf parts...you truly are a total tool for thinking this. When was the last time you saw a laptop for sale with a hand powered generator built in? Personally, me, never, and to power a 2 ghz windows machine with a GB of RAM by hand would probably be impossible. You'd need to have dudes on bicycle generators pedaling away the whole time.  Consumer laptops for us rich westerners are a completely different products. They are fragile, unreliable, basically the Kleenex of computing. A new iBook is great for me, but these people have different needs totally. These systems will run on less power in a day than my computer consumes in a few minutes. The OS is no frills, but solid. NASA doesn't send Windows into outer space, or even Linux. A similar situation applies.

Think of the C64. That thing was on the market for f*cking *ages*, the same computer. No changes. Now a laptop is considered uselessly slow in 7 years or so despite it being literally millions of times more powerful than a C64. This is the sort of product that the 3rd world needs, and in some ways all of us, honestly. We can't all go chucking $1000 laptops every few years because the USB ports blew out, or the screen cracked, of the shift key doesn't work, or "now that have a prettier one", because the landfills, not to mention credit cards, can't keep going like this forever.

These people need food, medicine, etc, but they also need to be able to figure out how to survive well without donations someday.

While it may seem like I think that I just laid out a case for these little green computers, the truth is I'm not really sold on this particular idea just yet. I do think however its worth trying as part of a multi-part strategy.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 10:51:49 PM by SignOfZeta »

Turbo D

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2007, 11:08:10 PM »
One of the points I made earlier is that there are things that could be done for these countries before going to the computer level. You said that this laptop is convenient because of the hand powered generator that powers it. You know what would be even more convenient, if these countries had power to begin with. Seriously, they need to build up to a certain point first. It makes me laugh when I hear people giving computers to people with no power. Think of all the things that a country could do with electricity. If all the money that went into this laptop scam went into actually helping these countries, they might not be soo poor any more.

As for pdf vs textbook, they're going to have to be paid for either way. But I guess it would be better to have pdf on a laptop because a bunch of dodos would rather donate laptops than help a country to acquire electricity to actually read real books in a classroom. If you've looked into this scheme, you'll notice that they brag how the laptops "lit up the room." To me these companies are a bunch of money hungry bastards and people supporting them are the real tools.

 :roll: [-(

SignOfZeta

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2007, 12:52:12 AM »
That's my point exactly though. Supplying electricity isn't really that difficult of a thing to achieve, at least not on a small scale. They are better off learning how to run power lines than indebting themselves to the world bank for the next century so that American/European contractors can lay the powerlines for insane profit.

Whether or not this education comes in the form of a $200 laptop, or a book is another matter, but I seriously don't see much profit in this project. Get real. They aren't exactly going to be swimming in money from the profits of a $200 laptop in this day and age.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 12:53:49 AM by SignOfZeta »

guyjin

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2007, 07:44:20 AM »
One of the points I made earlier is that there are things that could be done for these countries before going to the computer level. You said that this laptop is convenient because of the hand powered generator that powers it. You know what would be even more convenient, if these countries had power to begin with. Seriously, they need to build up to a certain point first. It makes me laugh when I hear people giving computers to people with no power. Think of all the things that a country could do with electricity. If all the money that went into this laptop scam went into actually helping these countries, they might not be soo poor any more.

As for pdf vs textbook, they're going to have to be paid for either way. But I guess it would be better to have pdf on a laptop because a bunch of dodos would rather donate laptops than help a country to acquire electricity to actually read real books in a classroom. If you've looked into this scheme, you'll notice that they brag how the laptops "lit up the room." To me these companies are a bunch of money hungry bastards and people supporting them are the real tools.

 :roll: [-(

you are terminally stupid.
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Turbo D

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2007, 08:17:13 AM »
What? Why not post your views instead of insults? Am I not allowed to have an opinion? Maybe your head is too far up your ass from your last goatse  :lol: If I am wrong, why don't you prove it? What? you can't? Ya, I thought so.

SignOfZeta

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2007, 08:28:47 AM »
Often ones opinion can be taken as an insult.

For me, people only have a right to their opinion if its based on facts, thought, logic, etc. I have no respect for random, ill informed bullshit.

Turbo D

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2007, 08:44:05 AM »
All of my views are based on logic. Isn't it only logical what I've said? Seriously, is it not more logical to give a country electricity before a laptop? Children in our schools don't have laptops. I never had a laptop when I was a child, did you? I am healthy. Why? Because I can eat food that is not rotten because of refrigeration. I am healthy because I have clean filtered water. You guys think that you are right? You think that you care because you give a child something that he doesn't need? You care for nothing! You only care about making yourself think that you made a difference when you have not!

For me, people that insult others because of their opinions are the real idiots. If you and guyjin are so smart and respectable, why can you not challenge my views instead of posting childish bullshit? When I see this it just proves to me that you guys are bunch of morons, lol. Seriously, you take a step backwards instead of forwards. Maybe if you guys had a green laptop when you were children you guys might have ended up with brains  :lol:

bust3dstr8

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2007, 09:27:53 AM »
I bet a large amount of parents take the childs laptop and sell/trade it for food,clothes, etc.
It's a great idea, but if there is no follow up to ensure that the laptop will be used properly, it's kind of pointless.
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rag-time4

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2007, 11:11:58 AM »
All of my views are based on logic. Isn't it only logical what I've said? Seriously, is it not more logical to give a country electricity before a laptop?

I don't think your views are entirely logical.

You seem like you aren't taking into account the fact that the laptop program was started by an educator (teacher) who values education.

The laptop program is focused primarily on improving education in poor countries and communities.

Turbo, you're certainly right that there are many many things that can be done in these countries and communities beyond intoducing computer technology in the realm of education, but personally I don't have the skills nor the knowledge necessary to start such a program on my own, and you haven't presented any alternative programs in any of your comments...

You've consistently criticized the laptop program without providing a concrete alternative for us to look at and possibly invest in! Therefore, I see what you are doing as choosing to do nothing at all instead of participating in the laptop program.

However, I personally am in college with the goal of becoming a teacher myself, so I place a lot of value on education. I probably wouldn't be as interested in larger-scale infrastructure programs as I am about a program that places emphasis on education. Nonetheless, if you know of a program better than the one laptop per child program, let us know about it!

The thing that excites me the most about this particular laptop is the mesh networking. While Necromancer correctly pointed out that this doesn't imply a connection to the world wide web, it may help improve communication between some of the poorer, more isolated communities...

I think increased communication can lead to an increase in the exchange of ideas which may lead to an increase in knowledge and make more likely the prospects for the kinds of social change that we agree are necessary.

Kitsunexus

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Re: The XO - OLPC
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2007, 11:25:28 AM »
These kids are supposed to be making Nikes, not putting shitty backgrounds on their Myspace.

I bet they have thehungersite.com in their bookmarks. I bet they also click twice. ;)