My stance on emulation - Please read before judging!

[Kitsunexus]

First things first, I don't want this to be a flame thread, just a honest post from me telling you guys some things I want you to know. I'm not going to toss out names that have no belonging in this thread, and I will try my best to avoid the use of profanity. I'm doing this because I want a mature discussion.

If this can be a mature discussion and not a bash Kitsune thread, you might actually convince me of your points. If not well, to save some of the drama, for the past 2 days my account was in a self-voluntary-and-initiated deletion status. Earlier today I reconsidered, but if more stuff happens I honestly have no hesitation to do it again and leave it that way.

Now that we're done with that, here's the question. What am I missing by using emulators? I prefer my LCD monitor to my TV (which is not great and has horrible fake 3D sound which is impossible to remove), and I actually like my PC gamepads. I like having unlimited saves and in some cases, saves at all. I also like not having to worry about if my game will work when I stick it in.

I understand that no emulators are perfect, but I also understand that most are very close.

But if I had a choice, I would use the real hardware.

This is something I need to clear up about my particular situation and basically why I emulate:

I don't pirate. I would LOVE to buy all my games if they were actually available to me. I actually have my SNES cart collection building up due to that atitude. I go into EZPawn and see a SNES game, and I'm all "HEY, I have that and like it!" And then I buy it.  Unfortunately, that store only has SNES games and Genesis games, no Turbo games.

Now I know I could buy these games on sites like eBay, but the gaming community (much like the synth community) has valued these games some much that it raises the prices of these games to levels that at this point in life I just simply cannot afford. Even the loose game auctions that are just loose carts or CD and jewelcase only auctions are expensive!

You may see the name "Kitsunexus" and you may see my flavor-of-the-week avatar, but what you don't see is the real me putting up with a mundane mediocre job just to save up for a crappy used car to barely make it out of this forsaken state and start a life that I can enjoy.

Also, let's say I magically had the money to buy all of this stuff, I HAVE NO ROOM. I live with my parents still, and share a room with my brother. The games I buy are not going to be able to have the room dedicated to them that they need. Also, I play MAME ROMs, a bunch of them. Obviously I can't afford the money nor the space for arcade cabinets.

I have no intention of ripping anybody off (I do NOT pirate modern games for any system, and actually never pirate PC games (except Daggerfall, I do own Widget Workshop) ) and I do not take any pleasure out of getting something for nothing. I enjoy these old games like everyone else, and I just play these to remember some of the games I played growing up, some of the systems and games I missed out on growing up, and basically to escape back to a time when gaming wasn't so mainstream and it wasn't heading for failure like it is in the current generation of games.

I feel humiliated and disheartened that I have to justify myself like this to you guys, and I can bet money on the fact that you are all fortunate enough to have never been in my situation, and also the fact that this post may fall on deaf ears.

But this entire post is 100% truth, no lies, no embellishments, just me being honest with you. And at the end of the day, isn't that the most one could ask for?

[Keranu]

If emulation suits your fancy, then stick with it. I do my main gaming on the real thing when possible and prefer that method, but I use emulators often too for a lot of things.

[Turbo D]

There is nothing wrong with using emulation for gaming. Seriously! There is even a site dedicated to turbo grafx emulation; magicengine.com. There is also no reason for you to leave this forum. It would be really sad if you left Kitsune. This is a forum for everyone to express their love for gaming. If people hate the fact that you are using emulation so much, why don't they go to magic engine forum and complain to them.

[guyjin]

Don't worry about what other people think. Especially on this board.  O:)

[Tablet]

I don't have a problem with emulation, some older stuff, and some not so older stuff is getting stupidly 'rare' in other words expensive and trying to get the stuff at reasonable prices can be impossible. You wouldnt beleive how many of my friends ive gotten to dust off their old mega drive or snes (we didnt have TG-16  ) by showing them emulated versions of thier old faves.

For this gen and last gen stuff (i have a list) i save and look at pretty pictures on ign until i've saved enough to buy the game, i know that my psp is homebrew enabled but i dont do iso's granted now and again i'll rip and convert a ps1 game but i've already bought that so i hold the stance that i shouldnt have to by a game more than once.

Yup i've got that space problem too, trying to house 28 (at last count) consoles in box room and the games too is getting rather difficult as my collection grows, my bookcases are now full and i've had to constuct a shelf above my bedroom door to hold the rest, a stupidly big dvd collection doesnt help either.

Hey Kitsunexus if you like emulation then that's fine it's all about the gaming really it doesnt matter if its 'perfect' heck I didnt care if games were 'arcade perfect' back in the day and i still don't, i play them because they were fun and still are today.

[Michael Helgeson]

First things first, I don't want this to be a flame thread, just a honest post from me telling you guys some things I want you to know. I'm not going to toss out names that have no belonging in this thread, and I will try my best to avoid the use of profanity. I'm doing this because I want a mature discussion.

If this can be a mature discussion and not a bash Kitsune thread, you might actually convince me of your points. If not well, to save some of the drama, for the past 2 days my account was in a self-voluntary-and-initiated deletion status. Earlier today I reconsidered, but if more stuff happens I honestly have no hesitation to do it again and leave it that way.

Now that we're done with that, here's the question. What am I missing by using emulators? I prefer my LCD monitor to my TV (which is not great and has horrible fake 3D sound which is impossible to remove), and I actually like my PC gamepads. I like having unlimited saves and in some cases, saves at all. I also like not having to worry about if my game will work when I stick it in.

I understand that no emulators are perfect, but I also understand that most are very close.

But if I had a choice, I would use the real hardware.

This is something I need to clear up about my particular situation and basically why I emulate:

I don't pirate. I would LOVE to buy all my games if they were actually available to me. I actually have my SNES cart collection building up due to that atitude. I go into EZPawn and see a SNES game, and I'm all "HEY, I have that and like it!" And then I buy it.  Unfortunately, that store only has SNES games and Genesis games, no Turbo games.

Now I know I could buy these games on sites like eBay, but the gaming community (much like the synth community) has valued these games some much that it raises the prices of these games to levels that at this point in life I just simply cannot afford. Even the loose game auctions that are just loose carts or CD and jewelcase only auctions are expensive!

You may see the name "Kitsunexus" and you may see my flavor-of-the-week avatar, but what you don't see is the real me putting up with a mundane mediocre job just to save up for a crappy used car to barely make it out of this forsaken state and start a life that I can enjoy.

Also, let's say I magically had the money to buy all of this stuff, I HAVE NO ROOM. I live with my parents still, and share a room with my brother. The games I buy are not going to be able to have the room dedicated to them that they need. Also, I play MAME ROMs, a bunch of them. Obviously I can't afford the money nor the space for arcade cabinets.

I have no intention of ripping anybody off (I do NOT pirate modern games for any system, and actually never pirate PC games (except Daggerfall, I do own Widget Workshop) ) and I do not take any pleasure out of getting something for nothing. I enjoy these old games like everyone else, and I just play these to remember some of the games I played growing up, some of the systems and games I missed out on growing up, and basically to escape back to a time when gaming wasn't so mainstream and it wasn't heading for failure like it is in the current generation of games.

I feel humiliated and disheartened that I have to justify myself like this to you guys, and I can bet money on the fact that you are all fortunate enough to have never been in my situation, and also the fact that this post may fall on deaf ears.

But this entire post is 100% truth, no lies, no embellishments, just me being honest with you. And at the end of the day, isn't that the most one could ask for?

Hey,look,I completely understand the financial  situation. I only make 9 bucks a hr where I work,I get no child support,and I take care of two kids,so I budget a certain amount strictly for games. What I highly recommend is that if there happens to be no good used game shop around then hit ebay. Be very watchful of good deals,always check BUY IT Now lots. Even if there are games in the lots you don't want,you can resell those at a later time when you build up a large enough pile of them.

Also after saving a bit ,watch for sales like the one Dean did. He had TONS of games up for very cheap prices,and systems too. And I mean,you may have to dip into your car fund  atad for a system,but owning something like a fully modded pc engine system may take the sting out a little and make the waiting and saving part alot more bearable in the long run as far as the car goes.

As far as storage goes,buy a large rubbermaid or sterlite container. Keep everything in that.Use bubblewrap too.

In your current situation I wouldn't even begin to recommend arcade game pcb collecting. I also have no problem with collecting arcade roms and doing that kinda emulation. One of the reasons is because tons of arcade pcbs use eproms. Stuff isnt going to last forever,the other is arcade titles are much harder to get. You add that with the fact that Capcom,Sega and  a few others designed stuff to suicide,it makes it a volatile hobby if you don't know what your doing and your not good at electronics repair. I thought I was pretty clear on my stance as far as arcade emulation goes,but if not,then yea I am all for it.

 But I do feel there should be nothing currently holding you back from game system collecting. Oh Yea,even on the Saturn,if you shop around on ebay,you save up enough and you get imports in bulk orders,you will find them much cheaper then US titles. If you score a US deck and need it modded region wise,I will do it for you for free if you cover cost of shipping and the DPDT switch.

The other main problem that members are having is not so much the emulation stuff but the fact that you start way way too many threads about just anything off the top of your head. This can create  a influx of new threads and shoves others to the back of the line basically. Not just that but it brings down the quality of your thread subjects,and makes them much less interesting to read. People end up going "WTF was the point of this???" and start to overlook any thread started by you,or they will start to become very verbal about the subject as you are learning.

Keranu is around the same age as you,and is in a similar situation,but that has not held him back. He collects games,has a supergun,ect... Hit him up for some advise in a pm.

As far as I go,if I trow a jibe at you,trow a jibe back,but this goes with anyone,watch your tongue  and stop being so quick to call people names (profanity) because they mis read a post or tried to yank your chain a little.
Otherwise,as you have learned with me and a couple others,you end up friendless on the world of forums and they will open up a world of posting hurt upon you any chance they get.

Thats my two cents,take it for what you will...

[nat]

I feel humiliated and disheartened that I have to justify myself like this to you guys, and I can bet money on the fact that you are all fortunate enough to have never been in my situation, and also the fact that this post may fall on deaf ears.

What are you talking about? I think everyone here has been in your situation, or at the very least a similar one. We all had to grow up.

When I moved out of my dad's house at 18, I sold off 90% of my video game collection to get money to.... live. Most of that was TurboGrafx stuff. A day doesn't go by where I don't regret that, but on the other hand, had I not done that who knows when I would have been able to start "the life I can enjoy." 

The good news is that after being established in the world for a number of years I was able to start rebuilding my collection. After a few years doing that, I now can enjoy my hobby more than ever before. I have a larger game library than any previous time in my life, and love it. Even better news is that had I learned about proper budgeting when I was younger, I probably could have rebuilt my collection sooner/quicker.

As far as buying stuff online goes... It's not so much the value the "real players" put on things that drive online costs up, it's a$$hole shit-bag eBay sellers gouging for a profit. Be mindful of this while shopping on eBay. While gouging is the "norm," there are good deals to be found. I bought a TG-16 game recently on eBay for $9.99 that apparently most eBay stores are now selling for $100. It can be scary to go game hunting on eBay and get overwhelmed by games with BIN prices of $60-$100. The biggest problem is that most people look to eBay to gauge what a fair price for an item is, and thus a vicious cycle begins. If you are confused and don't know what a fair price is for a game, just ask. That's what we're here for! Personally, I'd be happy to help in a buying-guide type capacity. I'm extremely thrifty, personally. There are very few Turbo/PCE games worth more than $50 or $60, realistically. 80 or 90 percent aren't worth more than $20. Also, Michael had some good tips on game buying on a budget.

If you are serious about gaming, set aside some money from every paycheck to go towards a new game or system. If your answer to this is "I can't afford it," then I say set just $5 aside every check. I can guarantee without knowing you or what goes on in your life that there is at least $5 worth of "flexible" spending money as long as you are receiving a paycheck from a paying job. There are a shitload of TurboGrafx/PCE games you can buy for $5, and even more for Genesis, SNES, etc since they tend to run cheaper most of the time. Saving up, buying, and finally receiving and playing a game on the real hardware is so much more rewarding to me than downloading a ROM and playing it on my computer. Plus you get cool art and packaging to look at.

On a side note, I can relate to the shitty TV aspect-- the TV in my bedroom sounds just like the one you described, crappy "3D sound" and all. I don't like playing games in there because of this, and it detracts from my enjoyment to some degree. But the best LCD is no match for a good, high-quality CRT.

[WoodyXP]

The way I see it is the people who made the game inside of that SNES cart aren't gonna
get any of your money.  You can walk into the Pawn and buy your game, or you can
emulate it... they aren't gonna see a dime from you either way.

Game on.

[nat]

You're absolutely right. But if the physical cart is already out there, they already received their dime for it.

But whether or not the developer gets paid isn't the point here. It's the experience and principle of buying and owning the actual game.

I could care less if a developer who's now out of business, who made a game 20 years ago gets a dollar from me playing their game.

[Tatsujin]

in fact, i don't really care how people enjoy to play retro-console-stuff nowadays. but in my case, i wouldn't have just one minute of fun with playing all those games "contactless" via emulators.

[Golgo13]

After reading this, I just thought I would put my two cents in.

I have been buying video games since I was 5 years old or so, and retro game collecting started when I regretted selling my NES for a SNES and wanted it back in addition to the SNES. The period of the mid to late 90's was the best in my opinion for collecting classic games, alot of stuff was very cheap and and the retro craze, nor the internet had gotten as huge as it is today.  That being said in about 2001 or so, I discovered emulation, and began downloading roms like crazy.

Every game I never got to play as a kid I wanted to try, and so now I have a huge collection of roms, and also alot of retro USB adaptors in which I play the games on the original controllers, but even so, to me there is no substitute for the real thing, and when I actually feel like playing a game all the way through, I typically get the real cart.  Emulation for me has become a kind of sample method for my console retro game collection.

I own a japanese duo, a PC engine GT and have about 30 or so Hu-Card games, I got an SNES, NES, TurboGrafx,Lynx,Genesis, Sega CD, DS Lite, Gameboys of every sort etc.  So I guess what im saying is, if your a retro game collector, use of emulation should be one piece of the puzzle in my opinion.  Used in the right amount and for the right reasons, its a very fun thing.  Sure some whack jobs will say that emulation is wrong and that only consoles and cartridges should be used by game collectors, but these people are not able to see that we all have different tastes, different living situations and different budgets.

Buy when you can buy, and emulate when you gotta emulate folks, I think most all of us on these boards are pretty "Hardcore" whether we use emulation or not, and I think most all of us were hardcore before emulators arrived on the scene.

[Kitsunexus]

Wow, thanks for the opinion on this. As soon as I get me a car, and a place to live, and a job thats a tad more stable (and not to mention pays more), I'm going to get a TG-16 (cart only) and a Saturn. That's where I think I want to start.

[Necromancer]

I say that you should do whatever the heck you want and don't worry about what people on this forum think.  At least you're actually playing these old games and enjoying them, as opposed to the clowns that pick up a classic, play it for five minutes, and declare "This stinks, Halo rulez!".

[rag-time4]

Wow, thanks for the opinion on this. As soon as I get me a car, and a place to live, and a job thats a tad more stable (and not to mention pays more), I'm going to get a TG-16 (cart only) and a Saturn. That's where I think I want to start.

There are many different types of people on this board (and in the world) and each of us probably enjoys gaming a bit differently.

Some people hate emulators...

I, for one, sold all my genesis and SNES stuff last year and put the money and space into PC-Engine and famicom disk. I only collect games for my absolute favorite systems, and I've decided to go with emulation for SNES, Genesis, and any other system that I don't want to actually collect.

If I was going to tell you why I collect games at all, I guess one thing is that it's totally legal, which is good, and that the games have some resale value as long as people are still playing/collecting them in the future... maybe its more risky than putting money in the stock market but it's also more enjoyable 

I tend to enjoy your threads, by the way, even if I don't always post. Everyone here is different, and you give the boards a lot of life. Your story about the Wal-Mart lady was classic 

Listen to what Michael says about treating other people with respect. I can't remember you being particularly rough with me, personally, but Michael's advice is good advice. It's always good to be respectful and courteous with others, even when we disagree. Look at how Keranu interacts with others on the board... he sets a good example.

To answer your question about what you're missing by using emulation: You aren't really missing anything important, providing the game you're playing is correctly emulated. I personally believe that there are other things that are more important than collecting, such as becoming independent and living on your own.

[Michael Helgeson]

Wow, thanks for the opinion on this. As soon as I get me a car, and a place to live, and a job thats a tad more stable (and not to mention pays more), I'm going to get a TG-16 (cart only) and a Saturn. That's where I think I want to start.

How much are you making right now,and are you working full time?

Since you are living with your parents,are you having to pay alot of bills?
Seriously,lets say even if you were working part time 20 hrs a week,if you can nab a job that pays $7 a hour that would give you $560  a month before taxes. Since your living with your parent still,your a dependent last I checked,so I would claim myself on the federal tax form at work. This way taxes,if any at all,would only be a low amount taken out. Even at the end of the year you should get it all back or only have to pay the smallest amount back. I cant remember if your parents can claim you at your age or not,but either way if they make more they are still the head of the house hold.

In those paychecks you should at least somehow manage to place aside $20-60 a check for gaming habits. The rest for bills and saving up for said car. If your parents are eating up your paycheck somehow then I fully recommend moving out and finding a 1 bedroom flat and a full time job. Your area should have city transportation,city bus system,ect... That would save you some money and help you be more independent. Sometimes its simply what you have to do at your age starting out.

Thats pretty close to how I started out myself,and as I did it I lived comfortable and didn't starve. I also ended up with plenty of money for hobbies and to spend on my kids,ect...