Fake Games

[Ravij]

Hi everyone - maybe this has been asked before, but.....

I was reading a previous thread about there being fake copies of Sapphire in circulation.
My question is, are there any other games known to have been faked? Are there any fake Hu Cards?

The reason I was wondering is that some sellers on EBay seem to have a lot of new/sealed games, and it seems strange to think that there would be so many, 15+ years after they were last made?

thanks,

Ravi

[SuperDeadite]

There are many bootleg HuCards out there.  Most come from China though, and were constructed with very low quality.  And
with very little knowledge of the actual product.  So spotting a bootleg is easy.  The Sapphire bootlegs however came from
Europe (Germany I think), and these were designed by someone who knew about Sapphire and what it was worth.  He went to
great lengths to make it appear as original as he could.  Being a very rare game, most people have never seen an original.  If you
know what to look for, spotting the fake is easy.  But crappy digital pictures on auction sites can make this difficult, especially
for people who know the name "Sapphire" but nothing else.

[Tatsujin]

there are some other fake/pirate games likte the 4 in 1 hucards etc., but beside of the sapphire there are no other counterfeits known, which where made such professional in terms of copying the original.

[shubibiman]

I know it can seem surprising but you can still find loads ogf new and sealed games in Japan. I personnaly own about 20 sealed games (and I even opened a few others ).
Apart from Sapphire, the only counterfeits are "PC Games".

[Tatsujin]

oh yes. if you just walk through super potato or retro friends, you can find hunderts and hunderts of sealed games there!

[elnino]

oh yes. if you just walk through super potato or retro friends, you can find hunderts and hunderts of sealed games there!

True, even games like Dracula X can be found in sealed condition.

[Ravij]

Thanks guys - have bought quite a few 'New' games, so it always made me wonder if they were real, I guess they are 

I never really pay over the odds for my games, except Tatsujin and Magical Chase, which were a bit more costly! 

[1010101]

You know, the collector in me understands why you'd want authentic, sealed games, but the gamer in me insists that if I were to collect sealed games, I'd have to by an open copy of each, too.  Is that typically the case for those of you who collect sealed games?

And on a related note, do any of the PCE/TG hardware setups ever have problems those bootlegs of Sapphire, or do they play as well as the originals?  I ask because I know some people have trouble with CD-Rs, and I can't help but wonder if unofficial pressed discs have issues, too.

[Michael Helgeson]

The supposed bootleg of Sapphire runs fine. I think its funny on that one,as Hudson themselves would not confirm or deny it as being legit or bootleg,and the parts of the reasoning behind it being a boot,like its jewel casings white part texture being off,or the center of the disc not being hazy and thin being absurd. I have plenty of Pc Engine cd titles with the same type of inner white plastic casing and thick clear center on the disc.Anyone who wants to really debate it as being fake,are wasting time because the only person/people who can ultimately decide that title on the Care4Data run are Hudson themselves.

 To its defense though it would be entirely feasible of Hudson to use a different pressing plant other then the original one used for their disc as this would have been a second run late in the game and they would not have been able to use the normal pressing plant as it was probably retooled or closed down after no longer being used for Hudson or other companies for Pc Engine titles.....This would also explain any color differences in the packaging. Same issue was common in laser disc pressings when the 2nd runs on up were by different plants.

When you want to do a second run,at the best quality at the lowest cost your going to use whatever method you can to do so,even out of the country pressing plants. The other thing is it would be alot more believable if it came out of Asia,where bootlegging was rampant. This pressing did not come out of Asia.For that matter it makes no sense for a bootlegger to copy things like the post card. Thats a extra cost that wouldn't have been needed in a bootleg.

 Either way it seems like even the "bootleg" copy is now uncommon,and fetches $60-100 from people the last time I seen it sold,with a average asking price of $80.

None of the above that I said make the game legit either,but the point is there is more defense facts involved making it sound like  a legit run then there is making it sound like a bootleg,with the major one being Hudson would not confirm it as being a fake.

[Tatsujin]

rolf..not that story again.

those "Care4Data" sapphire are bootlegs, and that 100%ly! those guys who wrote once, that even hudson can't find anything strange on that product are liars, coz hudson never did! and exactly those people want make other people believe they will buy a legit 2nd print, becasue they want make good and easy money!!

and if this was a legit run from hudson, so why the most of the copies where sold on ebay oversea to ignoramus and not at jap. stores itself? the only copie i've ever seen in the last 5 years here in tokyo was in a show case of counterfeits at the entrance of the new trader 2 (not for sale of course).

and that so called "out of the country pressing plant" was in switzerland. may be not the cheapest place on earth to let produce anything

[Michael Helgeson]

rolf..not that story again.

those "Care4Data" sapphire are bootlegs, and that 100%ly! those guys who wrote once, that even hudson can't find anything strange on that product are liars, coz hudson never did! and exactly those people want make other people believe they will buy a legit 2nd print, becasue they want make good and easy money!!

and if this was a legit run from hudson, so why the most of the copies where sold on ebay oversea to ignoramus and not at jap. stores itself? the only copie i've ever seen in the last 5 years here in tokyo was in a show case of counterfeits at the entrance of the new trader 2 (not for sale of course).

and that so called "out of the country pressing plant" was in switzerland. may be not the cheapest place on earth to let produce anything

For what its worth Hudson did not confirm them as being bootlegs in the 3 emails I sent to them back when this subject came up in 2005. This was back when I had hunted down all the info for Care4Datas pressing plants and contact info. Not sure if you were around here back then. I think Keranu emailed Hudson too. The subject got dropped after a bit.

After haggling with Hudson I got a reply from the 2nd and 3rd emails sent,after providing links to the items pics and pics of a letter a guy had ,supposedly from Hudson,along with links to the threads we had going. In Hudsons first email it was something along the lines of thanking me for my interest in their past works or some nonsense,and they would review the material and try to reach me back if they had anything further to provide.

I was surprised I got a reply at all from them. But alas they did not get back to me.
After 4 or 5 weeks I emailed them again. After like a week they replied for the last time.

 In their last email they bluntly stated that in the current situation they could not confirm or deny the pressings,and would not go into details as to why,and thanked me for my interest and continued support. It was prob one of the most generic replies I have ever gotten from a company in my life.

Due to this I'll consider it a up in the air subject,as in the end its Hudsons game,and its up to them to decide,and it is doubtful they ever will one way or the other... They made it apparent they honestly could care less.

[Tatsujin]

so, hudson never confirmed that matter? may be you once asked yourself, why not?

may be they just give a shit on it 10 years later. or the secretary which received your mails, didn't know exactly what to do with them?

why it should give hudson so much work to confirm your mails properly, if it's not because the people which received your mail didn't know how to handle?

if those copies are really produced on hudsons wish, they could've send you an immediately and clear answer with a "YES" easly!

and then again, why those copies where printed at a company located in swiss?

and last but not least. the producer of the game would certainly had have the original drafts of the manual, artworks etc. if it was a legit run. so the printing quality would, or better said had to be much more closer to the original (raster dots etc.), but instead of the original drafts, they surely only had a normal manual as a model, therefore the quality differences.

in the end, everybody can believe what he likes, but for me this case is clear (and closed). it's just putting lipstick on the pig.

[Keranu]

I don't think I ever emailed Hudson, but for those interested, I made a article that summed up the bootleg debate back when it was hot here -> http://lazerdorks.org/stunningarticles/sapphirearticle/index.html .

[Michael Helgeson]

so, hudson never confirmed that matter? may be you once asked yourself, why not?

may be they just give a shit on it 10 years later. or the secretary which received your mails, didn't know exactly what to do with them?

why it should give hudson so much work to confirm your mails properly, if it's not because the people which received your mail didn't know how to handle?

if those copies are really produced on hudsons wish, they could've send you an immediately and clear answer with a "YES" easly!

and then again, why those copies where printed at a company located in swiss?

and last but not least. the producer of the game would certainly had have the original drafts of the manual, artworks etc. if it was a legit run. so the printing quality would, or better said had to be much more closer to the original (raster dots etc.), but instead of the original drafts, they surely only had a normal manual as a model, therefore the quality differences.

in the end, everybody can believe what he likes, but for me this case is clear (and closed). it's just putting lipstick on the pig.

So that you know,its common for Japanese game companies to ditch their printing plates and store scans instead for booklets and packaging after the 1st run if they initially did not expect to do another run back to back. Because of this if your in the right place at the right time you can score them,much like how NGF did some of SNKs.

Because of this you would def see differences in the print quality. It would never be exact on a second run given that and another company being used,counterfeit or not.

Also,as far as bootleggers are concerned,it also makes no sense to copy the postal survey card. Thats going to the extreme. Its not like they had to worry about it being discovered as a boot if the majority of the customers are located outside their country and they already got your money.

I'm still half and half on this subject,and always will be till Hudson states one way or the other.

[Ravij]

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like this topic has opened an old can of worms!

Is Sapphire actually worth buying, even if it's a bootleg (paying a reasonable price of couse!)