Has Apple Lost Its Way?

[SignOfZeta]

my friend bought an 80gb ipod for his chick and the next month they released a 160gb for the price he paid. Those bastards at apple are always screwing people 

Yes, they should never upgrade their products.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, you'd think of someone could survive OS9, which crashed every day, and required manual memory management in most situations, that they could deal with the problems of the early OSX...mainly that you pretty much had to buy all your programs again.

It took a year or two, but OSX eventually got to the point where all other Mac OS are pretty horrible by comparison, and I think its very good for everyone. I really have no reason to believe that Windows XP would have been such a huge improvement if OSX wasn't around to embarrass MS.

I used to use Mac OS, but switched to Windows when OS X came out.

Ouch!  Admittedly, I was pretty peeved when OS X came out since I was a long time OS7-8-9 user and was pretty happy with them.  I was able to Get OS X for free and I could boot into it when I wanted and tinker around, but still mainly used OS9.  I eventually started using OS X more and more.  I'm glad I did.  My current Mac cannot run OS 9, though. 

[Necromancer]

my friend bought an 80gb ipod for his chick and the next month they released a 160gb for the price he paid. Those bastards at apple are always screwing people 

Yeah, what's up with those jerks replacing a two year old model with a new one?  The greedy bums should still be selling the original five gig model for $400 or more.  Increased features and/or lower costs for electronics is unheard of.

Yeah, you'd think of someone could survive OS9, which crashed every day, and required manual memory management in most situations, that they could deal with the problems of the early OSX...mainly that you pretty much had to buy all your programs again.

That is exactly what MS needs to do - forget broad backwards compatibility and simplify the OS.  It wouldn't affect most hardware (being USB plug and play or driver dependent), and if people want to keep old software, then they can stick to their old OS.

[nat]

Yeah, you'd think of someone could survive OS9, which crashed every day, and required manual memory management in most situations, that they could deal with the problems of the early OSX...mainly that you pretty much had to buy all your programs again.

That is exactly what MS needs to do - forget broad backwards compatibility and simplify the OS.  It wouldn't affect most hardware (being USB plug and play or driver dependent), and if people want to keep old software, then they can stick to their old OS.

You've got the right idea, but they need to go a lot further than just "simplifying." They need to rebuild the whole damn thing from the core kernel on up. The ending result would be faster, more secure, and just generally better.

Does anyone know if they did that with Vista? Probably not, huh? It's probably just a further abomination of code older than some of the forum members here.

Until the Micropenis wises up and does this, I won't look twice at any OS they produce.

[Necromancer]

That's kind of what I meant - I figure that the only way to remove backwards compatibility is to remove the components that old crap runs on, which would leave very little code remaining.  The XP driver issue showed us that MS couldn't start over like Apple has done twice in six years (once for OS X and again for x86 OS X), without suffering nonstop bitching and a likely class action lawsuit.

Not that age really matters or changes the quality of the OS, but Vista's kernel (as well as XP's) is based on the NT kernel, which was released in '93.  OS X's Darwin core is based on the Mach kernel, which is eight years older (1985).

[nat]

And the NT kernel has it's roots in early 16-bit architecture, which is probably contemporary with the Mach kernel you speak of.

But you could trace code lineage (of any OS) back to the stone age. OS X was a highly specialized build that used Darwin elements at it's core, optimized for modern hardware. As has been pointed out, most backwards compatibility was taken out for the greater good of the OS. It was almost an entirely new product when released.

The same can't be said for Windows, which hasn't seen a completely rewritten core since the late '80s. I haven't heard of anyone who likes Vista, in fact, 100% (that's right, 100%) of the people I know personally who have tried it switched back to XP within a week or two. I don't personally know a single person currently using Vista by choice on their home computer.

I don't actually know anything about Vista, but it seems to me judging by consumer response that the inevitable, inherent problems of using an ancient architecture without retooling are finally becoming apparent to the sheeple. I saw the beginnings of this with XP, but at the time the monopoly the Micropenis held over the home PC OS market pretty much left people with no choice. The final release of Windows 95 was the last MS OS that was any good during it's day, mainly because (at the time) the framework wasn't obsolete. And goddamn I held on to that OS as long as I could before developers just stopped supporting it altogether and I had to upgrade. I completely skipped 98, 2000, and ME and used 95 right up until XP came out. After a year with XP that included several viral infestations, two complete HD wipes w/re-installs, and a keystroke logger that stole my credit card number and cost me $1,000 in credit card fraud, I joyfully parted ways with Micro-penis-soft while happily giving them the finger until they were a mere spec on the horizon.

I won't even think about giving them another chance until they stop trying to rip people off with the same kernel packaged with a new GUI and a pricetag intended to drain your retirement account.

BTW, I eventually got that money back from the fraud incident but it was a month of hell and left more than a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm not an Apple-hugger per se, but in today's computing age their OS is far and away the superior choice. During the 90's I definitely wouldn't have said that.

[Turbo D]

my friend bought an 80gb ipod for his chick and the next month they released a 160gb for the price he paid. Those bastards at apple are always screwing people 

Yes, they should never upgrade their products.

well maybe you like being f*cked in the ass by apple, sign of gayta 

[FM-77]

I have never had a virus, or spyware, or gotten ripped off, or anything of the sort. I have been using XP. Without anti-virus and spyware software. I use my credit card online all the time.

The good thing about Windows is that there is software available for it.

[Necromancer]

And the NT kernel has it's roots in early 16-bit architecture, which is probably contemporary with the Mach kernel you speak of.

But you could trace code lineage (of any OS) back to the stone age. OS X was a highly specialized build that used Darwin elements at it's core, optimized for modern hardware. As has been pointed out, most backwards compatibility was taken out for the greater good of the OS. It was almost an entirely new product when released.

The same can't be said for Windows, which hasn't seen a completely rewritten core since the late '80s.

On the contrary, the exact same can be said of NT, though it has still been fourteen years.  It was rewritten from the ground up (as much as OS X was anyhow) to transition to 32-bit and support multiple platforms, including PowerPC oddly enough.  Its most basic roots can't be traced to DOS but to OS/2, which came out about the same time as the Mach kernel.

I'm not a MS humper, nor am I foolish enough to believe that OS X is secure.  If precautions aren't taken, it's just a matter of time before an infestation on OS X, XP, or Vista.  I wouldn't hesitate to suggest any one of them to anyone intelligent enough to maintain an anti-virus program, to refrain from downloading and installing stuff willy nilly, and to not surf at risky sites.  My only problem with OS X is its ties to overpriced hardware and the $129 upgrade every 18 months (of course, nobody's putting a gun to your head here).

well maybe you like being f*cked in the ass by apple, sign of gayta 

Maybe your friend likes bahtsechs too.  Why else would he purchase a two year old tech. product?

[Kitsunexus]

Does anyone know if they did that with Vista? Probably not, huh?

Of course not. But hasn't someone at MS said that the next version WILL lose all legacy support?

[Turbo D]

well maybe you like being f*cked in the ass by apple, sign of gayta 

Maybe your friend likes bahtsechs too.  Why else would he purchase a two year old tech. product?

Whatever dude. Apple didn't have any information on their website that they were going to be releasing a new model. Its really f*cked up. Can you sit there and tell me that you would be happy if you bought and ipod only to find out a few weeks later that apple released a new model 2x the capacity of yours for the same price? Can you? What is wrong with you people? 

[Necromancer]

Whatever dude. Apple didn't have any information on their website that they were going to be releasing a new model. Its really f*cked up. Can you sit there and tell me that you would be happy if you bought and ipod only to find out a few weeks later that apple released a new model 2x the capacity of yours for the same price? Can you? What is wrong with you people? 

Happy?  No, but I wouldn't blame the manufacturer for my poor timing either.  At some point all electronics are superseded by superior (often cheaper) products, and somebody will get stuck buying it shortly before this happens.  The only way that Apple could avoid this scenario is to pull the soon-to-be-obsolete product from store shelves, wait six months, and then start selling the new device.  I base my purchases on the value I receive for my money on the day of purchase (or shortly thereafter, considering retailer and credit card price guarantees), so it doesn't really matter what it costs at a later date.

[nat]

Does anyone know if they did that with Vista? Probably not, huh?

Of course not. But hasn't someone at MS said that the next version WILL lose all legacy support?

Perhaps. I stopped listening to anything spewed by Microsoft years ago. If someone from MS did say that, they are the smartest employee MS has on the payroll.

I have never had a virus, or spyware, or gotten ripped off, or anything of the sort. I have been using XP. Without anti-virus and spyware software. I use my credit card online all the time.

You're lucky. Better go ahead and knock on some wood right about now.

well maybe you like being f*cked in the ass by apple, sign of gayta 

Maybe your friend likes bahtsechs too.  Why else would he purchase a two year old tech. product?

Whatever dude. Apple didn't have any information on their website that they were going to be releasing a new model. Its really f*cked up. Can you sit there and tell me that you would be happy if you bought and ipod only to find out a few weeks later that apple released a new model 2x the capacity of yours for the same price? Can you? What is wrong with you people? 

This shit happens all the time in the electronics industry. That's just the nature of the business. A person has no place buying an electronic device if they can't mentally deal with the fact that a newer, better, cheaper model will soon replace it. Your friend sounds like a tool for thinking he got "screwed" by Apple.

By his logic, I should never have bought a new computer to begin with. Further, I should never buy another one for the rest of my life. GOD FORBID someone comes out with a better model and throws the last model I bought into the discount bin at 50% off. I'm thinking now I should just sell my computer while it's still the top model so Apple doesn't rape me like they did your friend. How dare they? 

[Kitsunexus]

I have never had a virus, or spyware, or gotten ripped off, or anything of the sort. I have been using XP. Without anti-virus and spyware software. I use my credit card online all the time.

You're lucky. Better go ahead and knock on some wood right about now.

I entirely doubt he's serious.

[FM-77]

No, I am serious. I really don't understand HOW people get viruses and spyware so easily. And get surprised I've never gotten any. It's very easy to avoid.