Do any NEC systems (FX included) have a CD drive with pins similar to IDE?

[MissaFX]

I was wondering if there was a way to modify something like this:
http://www.syba.com/Product/Info/Id/366
To replace the CD drive on any of the NEC consoles?  I am hesitant to open my FX to see what the cable looks like, but I would love to have a very long term solution to playing games on it once the laser has failed.

[Kitsunexus]

That would be awesome, and an easy way to insure CD-Rs don't damage your system!

I don't know if any NEC consoles have that kind of drive, but way back when (1998?) there was an article talking about how to use an IDE drive in Sega Saturn. I can't find the article for the life of me now.

[kokuryu]

If I remember correctly the CD drives in the PCE/TG16 units are modified mini-SCSI interface drives.  From what I remember there used to be an Apple hard drive interface years ago that was nearly pin for pin compatible, and with minor mods could be used with a patch cable hooked up directly to the unit.

[Michael Helgeson]

I was wondering if there was a way to modify something like this:
http://www.syba.com/Product/Info/Id/366
To replace the CD drive on any of the NEC consoles?  I am hesitant to open my FX to see what the cable looks like, but I would love to have a very long term solution to playing games on it once the laser has failed.

Long term solution:
Buy 5 or 6 good condition units,and learn how to replace caps. This method should last you until you're in your 60ies-70ies,or dead. Keeping one deck around and hoping it will last you forever is naive,so if you're really interested in the "forever"aspect of things you need to have multiple back up decks to rely on and for parts to salvage from.

[BigT]

It's a nice idea... but, to get something like this to work, someone would have to hack together an IDE interface card for the TG16 and actually get it to work... good luck.

IMHO, the future of the system will eventually lie in emulation.  As a hobby, it may be fun to break out the old system once in a while and play on it or mod it...

But, from a practical standpoint, emulation is much easier and cheaper.  There are tons of perks with Magic Engine:

*Practically no loading time
*No searching for CDs or HuCards as they can both be stored as images on a hard disk
*No wear and tear on CDs or HuCards
*Virtually unlimited save game memory, with an easy way to backup
*Support for save states (nice for people with jobs, etc.)
*Graphics filtering for high resolution displays
*No need to mess with RGB or S-video mods
*No worry about failing capacitors (unless you have a motherboard circa 2000  )
*Ability to use any gamepad (directinput device) that one desires
*Near 100% compatibility
*No additional system cluttering one's desk.

[nat]

Cons:

[ul][li]Having to sit in front of a computer to play.[/li][li]Playing on a smaller screen (unless you happen to have a 42" computer monitor).[/li][li]Inaccurate sound emulation (as good as emulators are, they will never be able to accurately emulate chip sound precisely).[/li][li]None of the "magic" you get playing on a real console.[/li][/ul]
I'm sorry, emulation has it's place, but it will never replace the real deal for me.

[MissaFX]

It's a nice idea... but, to get something like this to work, someone would have to hack together an IDE interface card for the TG16 and actually get it to work... good luck.

Since the time of this posting I have learned that NEC systems use a slightly modified scsi interface.  This kind of interface though would work on the dreamcast though and some newer consoles.  I have never seen or heard of a flash to scsi adaptor though, let alone a scsi as antiquated as the interface in the NEC consoles must be.

[Necromancer]

Cons:

[ul][li]Having to sit in front of a computer to play.[/li][li]Playing on a smaller screen (unless you happen to have a 42" computer monitor).[/li][/ul]

Rebuttal:

Computers can be connected to televisions (many HDTVs are nothing but glorified monitors anyway), and other consoles can run emulators (VC, XBOX, various "collection" discs, etc.).  Of course, this doesn't negate whatever emotional ties you may have to the original hardware.

[Michael Helgeson]

Cons:

[ul][li]Having to sit in front of a computer to play.[/li][li]Playing on a smaller screen (unless you happen to have a 42" computer monitor).[/li][/ul]

Rebuttal:

Computers can be connected to televisions (many HDTVs are nothing but glorified monitors anyway), and other consoles can run emulators (VC, XBOX, various "collection" discs, etc.).  Of course, this doesn't negate whatever emotional ties you may have to the original hardware.

Rebuttal:

Computers connected to Tvs running emulators still don't have the same visual quality as the original system does. They still have the emulator look,even on SDTV set ups. In the end the original hardware with real controllers looks,sounds,and feels the best. Nothing beats it. The best thing to do still as of yet is buy spare decks,and hunt for spare parts and learn how to repair basic electronics and replace caps if you want to avoid emulation and go the distance.

[Necromancer]

Rebuttal:

Computers connected to Tvs running emulators still don't have the same visual quality as the original system does. They still have the emulator look,even on SDTV set ups. In the end the original hardware with real controllers looks,sounds,and feels the best. Nothing beats it. The best thing to do still as of yet is buy spare decks,and hunt for spare parts and learn how to repair basic electronics and replace caps if you want to avoid emulation and go the distance.

This is entirely your opinion and is less true with many HDTVs, as they are incapable of natively displaying a 240p signal.  Anyway, I was rebutting nat's statement that emulators must be played while sitting in front of a smallish computer monitor.

[nat]

Rebuttal:

Computers can be connected to televisions (many HDTVs are nothing but glorified monitors anyway), and other consoles can run emulators (VC, XBOX, various "collection" discs, etc.).  Of course, this doesn't negate whatever emotional ties you may have to the original hardware.

Not everyone has a computer within "connecting" distance to their TV, nor would it be convenient to move such a bulky apparatus within said distance.

[Michael Helgeson]

Rebuttal:

Computers connected to Tvs running emulators still don't have the same visual quality as the original system does. They still have the emulator look,even on SDTV set ups. In the end the original hardware with real controllers looks,sounds,and feels the best. Nothing beats it. The best thing to do still as of yet is buy spare decks,and hunt for spare parts and learn how to repair basic electronics and replace caps if you want to avoid emulation and go the distance.

This is entirely your opinion and is less true with many HDTVs, as they are incapable of natively displaying a 240p signal.  Anyway, I was rebutting nat's statement that emulators must be played while sitting in front of a smallish computer monitor.

The look and feel isn't based on opinion,its based on fact. On SDTV or HDTV,you can tell a emulator easily. They stand out on either display.So does the audio on the same audio system used for both. Visually its due to how the VGA hardware your using spits out the image,with filters or not. But yea,I know what you mean about your statement to Nat,as I have my Nforce 2 based computer connected to a Aopen monitor and my Apex 24 inch tv monitor.

[BigT]

A lot of it is a matter of taste.  And, I totally can appreciate the sense of nostalgia when playing an old system.

I personally feel that the original 256x224 resolution Turbo Duo composite output does not look very good on a 37 or 42 inch HDTV. That resolution was never intended for such crisp large displays.  An original Duo does look pretty good on a 27 or 32 inch CRT SDTV.  But CRTs are going the way of the dodo and you'll be hard pressed to find a high quality one in 1-2 years.

I'm a big PC gamer (well now more XBOX 360), so I've gotten used to playing close to a monitor (it feels weird for me otherwise). I play Magic Engine on a 20" lcd monitor and I really like the filtered graphics Magic Engine puts out.  As a kid, before I got a decent TV with (gasp) S-video and composite inputs, I used to play my games on a crappy 19" TV with daisy chained RF switches... I consider Magic Engine a big step up from that...

On an HDTV, if filters are disabled, output should mimic what you would get from an RGB modded duo... sure, there may be some slight differences in overscan or colors, but it should be very close.  Also, no emulator puts out a direct 256x224 or 320x224 image as those are non-standard/low resolutions (Magic Engine scales to 640x480), but I doubt HDTVs would handle them directly very well.

Overall, for me, I think that the advantages of emulation (as outlined above) far outweigh the drawbacks.  And, the sad reality is that most Duos will eventually fail... I'm frankly surprised how many Duo CD drives are still working.

[BigT]

It's a nice idea... but, to get something like this to work, someone would have to hack together an IDE interface card for the TG16 and actually get it to work... good luck.

Since the time of this posting I have learned that NEC systems use a slightly modified scsi interface.  This kind of interface though would work on the dreamcast though and some newer consoles.  I have never seen or heard of a flash to scsi adaptor though, let alone a scsi as antiquated as the interface in the NEC consoles must be.

That's interesting... I figured NEC would have used something similar to their PC-9800 series computers (which I believe used SCSI early on).

You've never seen a flash to SCSI adapter because it would be complicated to make and SCSI is not mainstream anymore.

Compact Flash is basically IDE/ATAPI with a different physical (but electrically identical) connector.  So, a CF to IDE adapter is trivial and cheap to make (no conversion of the signal needs to be done).

[spenoza]

Given that the PCE CD drive was early even as computer CD drives go, there weren't a lot of interface options. You either used a standard (at the time, for CDs, SCSI) or you created your own interface (like the early PC MPC crap). Developmentally it was probably easiest to use a cheap-to-produce subset/bastardization of SCSI.

As for emulation, I still prefer Ootake to ME. But anyway, I agree that as original systems continue to fail and become more sparse, for the majority of the populace emulation (or the Wii VC) will be the only way to appreciate TG-16/PCE titles. But for those who crave authenticity there will always be a kind of magic associated with the original hardware and its output.

Though I must confess, I'm not really happy with the way the PCE's relatively square standard output resolution gets stretched on a typical 4x3 TV screen. Bonk's head, for example, gets awfully wide. So in that sense an emulator's emulation of the "accurate" screen ratio can improve the experience.