Author Topic: Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo  (Read 1241 times)

Keranu

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2005, 05:52:55 PM »
So those DUO RXs don't run so well, eh? Since I need to get a PCE system sometime, I have been deciding on getting a PCE Duo or Duo R/RX. Now that I hear about your problems with the RX, I might want to stick to the normal PCE DUO.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Necro

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2005, 07:51:54 PM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
So those DUO RXs don't run so well, eh? Since I need to get a PCE system sometime, I have been deciding on getting a PCE Duo or Duo R/RX. Now that I hear about your problems with the RX, I might want to stick to the normal PCE DUO.


Actually, everything I have read points in the opposite direction there.  I am sure that people do have faulty Duo-Rs and Duo-RXs, but everything I have seen has said that the Turbo Duo and PCE Duo have many more tech problems than the R or RX, specifically the cd drives dying and the audio chips getting messed up from overheating.  I think there are some details about this on d-lite's site actually.  That said, I still recently picked up a Turbo Duo, I just couldn't resist it.   :lol:

esteban

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2005, 12:11:46 AM »
Quote from: "Necro"
Quote from: "Keranu"
So those DUO RXs don't run so well, eh? Since I need to get a PCE system sometime, I have been deciding on getting a PCE Duo or Duo R/RX. Now that I hear about your problems with the RX, I might want to stick to the normal PCE DUO.


Actually, everything I have read points in the opposite direction there.  I am sure that people do have faulty Duo-Rs and Duo-RXs, but everything I have seen has said that the Turbo Duo and PCE Duo have many more tech problems than the R or RX, specifically the cd drives dying and the audio chips getting messed up from overheating.  I think there are some details about this on d-lite's site actually.  That said, I still recently picked up a Turbo Duo, I just couldn't resist it.   :lol:


Yes, I'd like to hear more about the reliability of different models.  Since the RX was a redesigned (cheaper) model, I was unsure how much cost-cutting NEC took.  

I haven't had enough experience with all the models to provide answers, but here are some things I've heard (I'd love it they could be verified):

1. Supposedly, the TG-CD (and I would assume the PCE-CD) didn't have enough ventilation and this could cause problems. This would be in the actual CD-ROM drive (removable) and not the base unit.

2. The DUO-R and DUO-RX, being redesigned & "budget" models, might have used some cost-cutting, lower-quality components.

3. The DUO-R and DUO-RX corrects/improves upon the original DUO / TurboDUO and is thus more reliable (as stated in previous post).

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: I have TG-16 + TG-CD, TurboDuo, PC-Engine.  I got the TG-CD in 1990 and haven't had problems with it (well, it's finicky with certain CDs and can't be smacked around... but that's the way it always was).  The TurboDuo, despite being newer and receiving FAR LESS gaming hours than my TG-CD, started getting flaky shortly after I purchased it (the CD drive far more finicky than the TG-CD and takes a couple passes to read a CD).  So, perhaps I was lucky, because my TG-CD is still the most reliable hardware.  AND, it endured long hot summers because my parents didn't have air conditioning when i was a kid. A friend of mine has a PCE DUO that has been totally abused (dropped multiple times) and it still works wonderfully, so go figure.

Of course, these anecdotes might not be representative of the overall trends.

Note: I think a distinction between "new" and "used" hardware is important to this discussion.  If you buy used, you don't know the history of the item.  I bought my US DUO used (complete in box and it seemed it was barely used)... but it's had problems.  Now, is that because US DUO, in general, tend to be flaky.... or because something happened to it...
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Black Tiger

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2005, 06:25:32 AM »
Ya, every system I've bought new has never given me any problems.

I just bought a Supergrafx & Duo RX from big name sellers on eBay and both have issues.

Its not worth it to return them because I already paid duty on them.

My Supergrafx plays Daimakaimura fine, but I have to try several Hu Cards several times to get them to work(of course, I tested it with like 80 different Hu's). It seems to be doing better since I cleaned the card slot.

I haven't found my lens cleaner yet, I'm hoping that it might help the 'RX, since it was filthy(just like the SG) when I got it.
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Keranu

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2005, 07:13:10 AM »
The only Turbo/PCE system I own and have ever owned is a Turbo Duo and it seems to be flawless, except one time I played without putting the CD cover lock on and the drive was quite load when it was loading. A friend I talk to online (Dhardyboyz if you know him Steve) has had a Turbo Duo for many years and he dropped a lamp on it once that melted the HuCard portion I believe and he says it still works fine.

I would also like to know if it's true that the Turbo Duo has slightly faster loading times than the TGCD.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Black Tiger

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2005, 08:10:38 AM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
The only Turbo/PCE system I own and have ever owned is a Turbo Duo and it seems to be flawless, except one time I played without putting the CD cover lock on and the drive was quite load when it was loading. A friend I talk to online (Dhardyboyz if you know him Steve) has had a Turbo Duo for many years and he dropped a lamp on it once that melted the HuCard portion I believe and he says it still works fine.

I would also like to know if it's true that the Turbo Duo has slightly faster loading times than the TGCD.


I once stepped on the AC cable right where it plus into the Duo.

The whole circuit board(size of a thumb) got ripped up and the AC in got pulled into the system.

Since there wasn't anything like the internet, I not only couldn't get any help, I also couldn't get the bit to open the system up. So I took some sharp plyers to it and ripped open a giant hole around the opening.

It's worked fine to this day, with the giant hole and everything.

It was only last week that I finally got around to patching it up properly. Since I now have the bit, I opened it up, screwed the little circuit board down in place, and crazy glue a matching plate over the hole.

Unrelated to the hole, there was a time when my Duo screached and whined and missed loads stuff, but it passed. Maybe the lens just got out of alignment, maybe it just needed several cleanings.

But in the end, these types of things aren't necessarily permanent.

Also, if anyone ever has their PCE CD get stuck during a load, just open the cd door until the light goes off, then close it. It start the search new any almost always finds it way right off.
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Keranu

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2005, 02:28:17 PM »
Video games can have such trauma if they are damaged! Lets pretend there is a hospital for humans and a hospital for video games right next to it and my mom is in need of an emergency to the hosptial and then my Duo breaks - I think I might have to tell my mom to hang in there for a little while before I could rush her to the hospital  :oops: .
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Necro

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2005, 03:10:27 PM »
Here are a couple links over to the Neo-Geo.com forums where you can read more about the common audio problem with the Turbo Duo as well as the PC Engine Duo and what d-lite has to say about them.  According to d-lite the R and RX are not effected by the problem:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106243
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83221

D-Lite

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2005, 10:56:41 AM »
Quote from: "Necro"
Here are a couple links over to the Neo-Geo.com forums where you can read more about the common audio problem with the Turbo Duo as well as the PC Engine Duo and what d-lite has to say about them.  According to d-lite the R and RX are not effected by the problem:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106243
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83221

Nope, they seem immune.

I posted quite a bit in the other thread here on this topic, but I'll add a bit here.

One thing I noticed with regular black Duo units is that there is definitely something with the CD reading the disc that can be a problem and this seems to be the lid.  As mentioned above, the lock can affect performance and this seems to be related to the stability of the spinning disc.  I have a project for everyone.  If you have a balky Duo, trying playing a CD game with a hand pressed firmly, but not HARD on the CD lid.  Or a heavy book.  See if the audio works.
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esteban

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2005, 02:09:12 PM »
Thank you all for the links and discussion on hardware issues.  :)
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msb_1971

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My Duo Rx and some Good Solid Logic.
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2005, 04:23:56 PM »
Some very interesting information here, this is a great thread.

I just purchased a Duo-RX, nearly new condition in the original box; it looks great I am very happy with it. I purchased it from D-Lite, he also moded it before I received it. It has the region selector switch on the back this mod, which he offers on his site, is less than cost of a converter on eBay, with nothing to loose. I also had the Super VHS mod done as well, it is awesome I will try to make some videos in super VHS mode vs. regular composite video.

I think there is some real flawed logic here about the relative quality of the various models of Duo’s. Having been involved with electronics for some time I find the logical order of actual device quality is Dou (lowest quality), Duo R (middle quality) and the Duo RX (highest quality).

How can I say this? I know I’ve heard all the arguments, the Duo RX was made to be cheaper, I know, I know.  The primary cost saving measure in the production of the R and RX was the removal of the headphone jack.

The other and more obvious cost saving measure on the R and the RX respectively is quite frankly the date of production. The NEC consoles, not unlike any computer-based device would become cheaper to produce each year as production methods improved and streamed lined. In addition to becoming increasingly inexpensive to produce the quality would also improve. Any person who has actively used computers for any amount of time knows the chips, all chips become better, faster and cheaper every year.

As far as I can tell the Duo was produced starting in 1991, the R in March of 1993, and the RX in June of 1994. The actual cost of producing the primary processor chips and peripheral chip sets would have improved dramatically from 91 to 94. Not to mention the improvement in the quality of CD drives. I hear often the problems playing burnt, copied games, on the original Duo and the higher rate of success using burnt games on Duo RX machines. This is far from a random occurrence. Each year that passed the components improved in kind.

I think it is logical to assume like any computer related device the newer the better. I guess time will ultimately show us which machines were built to last the longest.

I would also like to say most of the reliability of these devices would be dictated by their use and treatment since their production.  I also think this entire dialog is mostly intellectual, if you have a Pc engine, a Duo, a Turbografx 16 with CD rom or the Duo R or RX, and it works then that’s what should matter most.

Thanks for a great Thread.

twor2005

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2005, 02:51:50 PM »
Near as I can tell the TG CD is the most reliable. I got one around 1992 and used it heavily for several years for games and cds. It probably helps to avoid cdrs since it has to work harder to read them. Mine finally keeled over at the end of the 90s after HEAVY use, but I was able to get a brand new drive for it off TZD, right before they quit repairing.

3 months ago I got a used PC Engine Duo off Ebay and had to self-repair it within 2 weeks. The laser housing was stuck, but since then I've had no problems. I use it very sparingly though.

Off topic: I used to think the Duo was so cool looking.. how times have changed! It looks so late 80s/early 90s now, with the "fly" zig zag line.

nodtveidt

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2005, 10:48:00 AM »
Has anyone ever thought of the idea of perhaps building new Duo units? I don't know how accessible the processor is (probably not at all... :( ) but if it could be done, would anyone take it up? I know I would for sure...and improve the design at the same time with more robust drives... :)

Black Tiger

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2005, 01:55:47 PM »
Quote from: "nodtveidt"
Has anyone ever thought of the idea of perhaps building new Duo units? I don't know how accessible the processor is (probably not at all... :( ) but if it could be done, would anyone take it up? I know I would for sure...and improve the design at the same time with more robust drives... :)


Maybe someone could emulate the system in a chip and then make a shell containing the rest.
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DragonmasterDan

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Turbo Duo vs PC Engine Duo
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2005, 06:57:52 AM »
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"
Quote from: "nodtveidt"
Has anyone ever thought of the idea of perhaps building new Duo units? I don't know how accessible the processor is (probably not at all... :( ) but if it could be done, would anyone take it up? I know I would for sure...and improve the design at the same time with more robust drives... :)


Maybe someone could emulate the system in a chip and then make a shell containing the rest.


The PCEngine wasn't quite as popular as the Famicom which is so heavily copied that FOC (Famicom On Chip) based systems have been floating around for years. The PC Engine is also going to be quite a bit more difficult to properly emulate, remember the Laseractive using the actual chips had trouble with some games. It's a possibility, but it would require far more work than its worth.
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