3DO - Hated, Loved, Feared?

[GUTS]

If I was an old man I'd love the Wii, that's their target demographic.

[Michael Helgeson]

LOL,from how the tv ads go,yea man. Its kinda annoying because I'm doubtful a single nursing home is employing Wiis and part of the entertainment/exercise regiment  Marketing to the wrong people for sure.

[Keranu]

Now I've defended the Wii on these forums before and being the ultra Wii fanboy snerd I am, I'll defend it again as I feel the Wii is definitely a step in the right direction for modern gaming.

The latest criticism that's been used against the Wii recently is "waggle". First it was two Gamecubes taped together, then it was the mini-games, and now the hip thing to say against it is how you play games by waggling controller. If you actually think about the games, there really isn't that much waggle motion that's being used. Do you simply just waggle to play Wii Sport's Bowling? Marble Mania? Metroid Prime 3? Good luck trying to beat those games just by waggling the controller. Granted there are some gimmicky games that just waggle the controller, like Twilight Princess (a game not exclusively designed for Wii), but sometimes waggling isn't even a bad thing. For instance to do the spin attack in Super Mario Galaxy you can just shack the controller in any fashion and it will execute and unlike Zelda, it actually feels really nice and appropriate and is very simple to do.

Just as I predicted last year, I said by the end of 2007, the Wii would have a pretty nice line up of games and online play would improve and I think both points are right. Most people don't realize it, but the Wii actually has a decent amount of good games right now and since all the attention is focused on Metroid, Mario, and Smash Bros., these games get ignored. Aside from the big exclusive Metroid Prime 3 and Super Mario Galaxy, other games worth playing would be (and not limited to):

Link's Crossbow Training (surprisingly a really good game)
Zack & Wiki (a revival of classic PC adventure style games)
NiGHTS Journey of Dreams (faithful to the original)
Guitar Hero III
Ghost Squad
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Trauma Center: New Blood
Batallion Wars II
Super Paper Mario

With at least three of those games offering true online play. While online play for Wii still isn't great, I think it has definitely improved since the beginning of the year and more and more games, both first and third party, are jumping on the online bandwagon. But personally, I think real life multiplayer is way more fun than online anyways.

There is one main (and obvious) advantage Wii has over the other systems and that's it's ability to attract everyone to play it. My parents love the damn thing so it's great to play games with people that I haven't really played with before. Oh and another advantage is that Wii will get you chicks while 360 and PS3 gives you zits.

[Joe Redifer]

Do you simply just waggle to play Wii Sport's Bowling?

Yep. All it takes is a small flick of the wrist to throw strikes every time.  Those who feel that they need to stand up to play obviously aren't as smart as the controller.  I prefer playing games sitting down in a relaxed position, anyway.

Oh and another advantage is that Wii will get you chicks while 360 and PS3 gives you zits.

No, from what I've seen, girls are not turned on by the Wii.  One girl I showed it to was freaked out by the odd "characters" in Wii bowling who had no arms or legs.

Also, I wish the Wii were as powerful as two Gamecubes taped together.  In reality it's closer to 1.2x the Gamecube.

[Keranu]

Do you simply just waggle to play Wii Sport's Bowling?

Yep. All it takes is a small flick of the wrist to throw strikes every time.  Those who feel that they need to stand up to play obviously aren't as smart as the controller.  I prefer playing games sitting down in a relaxed position, anyway.

Didn't care to comment on the other games, mentioned eh ? You might be able to flick the controller in bowling, but from my experiences that was one game that didn't work well for me while sitting down. Besides standing up for that game feels great.

Oh and another advantage is that Wii will get you chicks while 360 and PS3 gives you zits.

No, from what I've seen, girls are not turned on by the Wii.  One girl I showed it to was freaked out by the odd "characters" in Wii bowling who had no arms or legs.

Wait until they see space dudez from the future launching mega torpedo blasts in Halo!

Also, I wish the Wii were as powerful as two Gamecubes taped together.  In reality it's closer to 1.2x the Gamecube.

Jee, I guess the only reason I should play games is if they use Blast Processing®.

[guyjin]

Also, I wish the Wii were as powerful as two Gamecubes taped together.  In reality it's closer to 1.2x the Gamecube.

Jee, I guess the only reason I should play games is if they use Blast Processing®.

Classic. Sigged.

[Black Tiger]

Now I've defended the Wii on these forums before and being the ultra Wii fanboy snerd I am, I'll defend it again as I feel the Wii is definitely a step in the right direction for modern gaming.

The latest criticism that's been used against the Wii recently is "waggle". First it was two Gamecubes taped together, then it was the mini-games, and now the hip thing to say against it is how you play games by waggling controller. If you actually think about the games, there really isn't that much waggle motion that's being used. Do you simply just waggle to play Wii Sport's Bowling? Marble Mania? Metroid Prime 3? Good luck trying to beat those games just by waggling the controller. Granted there are some gimmicky games that just waggle the controller, like Twilight Princess (a game not exclusively designed for Wii), but sometimes waggling isn't even a bad thing. For instance to do the spin attack in Super Mario Galaxy you can just shack the controller in any fashion and it will execute and unlike Zelda, it actually feels really nice and appropriate and is very simple to do.

Its not the few real games that are the problem, its the 1200 versions of Pony Rancher and Alligatorz.

[guyjin]

Its not the few real games that are the problem, its the 1200 versions of Pony Rancher and Alligatorz.

true dat.

[nat]

HAhaha, this is the first time I've seen Keranu really champion something like this. He even used sarcasm! Not even JJ & Jeff gets that kind of treatment (I think deep down he sees it for the pile o' crap that it is).

I agree 100.2% with everything he just said. I'm glad Crossbow Training got mentioned. I got a Wii Zapper for Christmas that came bundled with Crossbow Training. I'd never heard of it before, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the game f*cking rules. I can't stop playing it.

Targeted to old men/little kids or not, the Wii is great. The 360 and PS3 are just more of the same. I have no plans to buy either one unless something really revolutionary happens with one or the other. If I had to pick one I'd probably go for a PS3 since at least I could use it as a BluRay player. The 360 is just a FPS player and FPS games blow.

[Joe Redifer]

Didn't care to comment on the other games, mentioned eh

Kororinpa is pretty cool, but it does have issues in later levels when you must turn the Wii Remote upside down.  It gets glitchy.  Metroid Prime 3 is a game that actually works and I love very much. 

Wait until they see space dudez from the future launching mega torpedo blasts in Halo!

Halo is retarded.  I don't think any game system will get you the girl.  You know what gets the girl?  Getting out of the house.  Try it.

Jee, I guess the only reason I should play games is if they use Blast Processing®.

I didn't say anything about that.  I just wanted to put people straight who might think the Wii is significantly more powerful than the Gamecube.  It barely is.

To me, there are 2 great games on the Wii and a few decent games.  One of the great ones is the aforementioned Metroid Prime 3 which benefits from the Wii controls greatly.  The other great one is Super Mario Galaxy which I think would be MUCH better if played with a standard controller.  The whole "star bits" thing is extraordinarily homosexual and adds nothing.  Waggling the remote to attack is also annoying.  The only decent thing the Wii Remote adds to the game is grabbing on to those blue stars which make that weird sound and pull you around, and that's not exactly something that makes the game great.  The decent games like Wario Ware and Kororinpa are cool, but I'd still rather play Gate of Thunder.

[GUTS]

Link's Crossbow Training & Ghost Squad are killer apps for the Wii? Haha, awesome.

[Keranu]

Its not the few real games that are the problem, its the 1200 versions of Pony Rancher and Alligatorz.

The more popular a system is, the more games it's gonna get, both good and bad. Despite all of the crappy licensed sports games the Genesis got, it was still a great console.

I agree 100.2% with everything he just said. I'm glad Crossbow Training got mentioned. I got a Wii Zapper for Christmas that came bundled with Crossbow Training. I'd never heard of it before, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the game f*cking rules. I can't stop playing it.

Yeah my brother got me it for my birthday on December 13th, something I totally wasn't expecting and something I never thought I would purchase. To my surprise, it's a great game and despite the Wii Zapper just being a plastic case and the Wiimote itself as being faster to use, I think the Zapper definitely adds a greater feeling to it. Something I've been complaining about in new games for awhile is how you just can't start up a game and play it right away, but some of these Wii games like Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Link's Crossbow are fixing this problem as there isn't a whole lot of menus and tutorials in your way before you actually play the game. We'll have to start up a Link's Crossbow Training score thread .

You know what gets the girl?  Getting out of the house.  Try it.

And after you've been out of the house for awhile, you can invite the girl back to your home and show her your Wii .

I didn't say anything about that.  I just wanted to put people straight who might think the Wii is significantly more powerful than the Gamecube.  It barely is.

Sorry, I just had to throw in a Blast Processing® joke in my post somewhere. It's a rule on this forum to use that joke whenever possible.

To me, there are 2 great games on the Wii and a few decent games.  One of the great ones is the aforementioned Metroid Prime 3 which benefits from the Wii controls greatly.

You have to keep in mind that the Wii has only been out for a little over a year and still has a lot of time for more games. I think you could look at just about any other console's game line up in their first year and it's quanity of good games would be about on par with Wii, though Metroid Prime 3 and Super Mario Galaxy are pretty big titles.

The other great one is Super Mario Galaxy which I think would be MUCH better if played with a standard controller. The whole "star bits" thing is extraordinarily homosexual and adds nothing.  Waggling the remote to attack is also annoying.  The only decent thing the Wii Remote adds to the game is grabbing on to those blue stars which make that weird sound and pull you around, and that's not exactly something that makes the game great.  The decent games like Wario Ware and Kororinpa are cool, but I'd still rather play Gate of Thunder.

I wouldn't say Galaxy would play "MUCH" better with a standard controller as the motion controls are pretty limited and plays like any other 3-D Mario game. Star Bits are homosexual, but I do think it's a good feeling when "absorbing" them and it does add to a simplistic multiplayer aspect to keep bored people in the room busy. The blue stars are a neat feature.

[guyjin]

Star bits taste like honey.

[Michael Helgeson]

I'm going to be honest with you Joe,you sound like someone who knows zilch about hardware capabilities at times.

I will break it down for you like this.
CPU DESIGN BETWEEN THE 2 SYSTEMS
Game Cube cpu system specs:
 IBM "Gekko" PowerPC CPU. 180 nm IBM copper-wire process,clocked at 486 MHz.


Wii cpu system specs:
 PowerPC-based "Broadway" processor, 90 nm SOI CMOS process,clocked at 729 MHz.

Wiis cpu is a far newer generation core,and is designed to be twice as fast as the older Gekko processor. Game developers when asked have rated the Broadway as being about as powerful as a Athlon Xp 2500+ as far as being able to run games goes. The original Gekko was about as powerful as a Athlon Thunderbird 1GHZ at its peak of optimization.

GPU DESIGN BETWEEN THE 2 SYSTEMS

GameCube GPU specs:
ATI Flipper 180 nm process,clocked at 162 mhz. 648 megatexels/second. 648 megapixels/second.
Basically about as good as a Radeon 7500 GPU. Direct X 7 generation

Wii GPU specs:
ATI Hollywood 90 nm process,clocked at 243 mhz. 1944 megatexels/second. 1944 megapixels/second.
Basically about as good as a Radeon 1400-1600XT Direct X 9 Generation

Both support FSAA.

Basically yea the Wii is tech wise 2-3 times as powerful,and its sad we are not seeing it.

Currently,yea you're not seeing massively impressive use of the GPU yet. But that tends to be Nintendos way of letting programmers do things. They get better over time. This has been common among all game systems. It tends to take the programmers 2-3 years to fully realize what all they can do,and that all depends on how much they have been informed on how well the GPU and CPU can do.

Sony,Microsoft,and Nintendo are all wenches when it comes to letting programmers for 3rd parties know the full extent of the hardwares abilities. Sega and 3DO were basically the only ones who did not take this kind of approach with 3rd parties. I would not be surprised if Nintendo Wii dev kits are basically upgraded each year in software to include expanded features and abilities,not just big fixes.

[Joe Redifer]

Uh, Micheal?  Throwing specs on paper around is one thing.  Real life is another (also you forgot about the extra memory).  Wii programmers have had plenty of time to take advantage of the extra capacity of the Wii, and the truth is that very few games have actually done it.  I think that perhaps Super Mario Galaxy couldn't be done on the Gamecube 100% and maybe Metroid Prime 3.  There might be a few other games I haven't seen, but I doubt it.  All I know is when I go and play Gamecube games, they really don't look any different, and original Xbox games still look better.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if most Wii development systems are GC dev systems with Wii control functionality tacked on.  I have no way of proving that, but it sure seems like it.  One thing I am seeing is that more games are using 16:9 whereas most Gamecube games used 4:3 only.  I think that is Nintendo basically suggesting to developers to use 16:9, though, as F-Zero GX on the 'Cube ran great at 480p, 16:9, 60fps with great graphics and no slowdown.   Also has anyone besides me noticed that the Wii loads data much slower than the Gamecube?  Those damn doors on Metroid Prime 3 are a good example.

Bottom line:  I don't expect Wii graphics to improve much in the future over what we are seeing now.