CD-R Back Up Tests

[Maiden Hell]

I just bought my first Turbo Duo last week after finding a local seller close to me who put it up for sale on e-bay.  I got a pretty half decent deal on it and I got the box, manuals and about 40 CD-R games.  I put in Dracula X and it worked great up until the first level boss.  The system would not load the boss area and froze black on my TV screen.  I noticed that the disc stopped spinning and when I looked inside the laser was indeed as far to the right as possible and couldn't come back on it's own.  Upon realizing this, I knew it wasn't so much an electrical problem but a mechanical flaw.  I opened up my system and removed the plastic cover which sits over the lens.  I then forcefully moved the main drive gear (not the worm gear on the motor or the rack gear on the HOP-M3) with a small flat head screw driver.  With the power connected and my finger to push the button down to make the system think the door had been securely closed, the lens moved back on it's own.

I then added grease to all the gear teeth (worm, ring gears and rack) and cleaned the lens itself with rubbing alcohol and put everything back together MINUS the black plastic lens guide/cover.



When I restarted the game, it worked FLAWLESSLY...I was very impressed.  But to my disappointment, when I tried some other games the same thing would happen.

I have a few original Turbo CD games that I am going to try later tonight that I borrowed from a friend and see what gives.  I might have no choice but to buy original games which should be no problem because I have the money to do so...but I'm going to fool around a little more at trying to copy some games using the various kinds of CD-R and post my findings as I go along.

Alright so last night I gave it a go and I tried 3 different back up programs on two different computer systems with 4 different CD-Burners (two per system) with one brand of CD-R (Memorex CD-R 80min Discs).

The three programs I tried were: Roxio Easy Media Creator 8, Nero, and CDR-Win.

What I found was that with Nero and Roxio they did not let me burn at 1x.  The slowest they allow me to go is 2x. CDR-Win in the unlimited free trial mode only allows burning at 1x.

Roxio was being used on my 2005 model year notebook computer running Windows XP with an external USB Pioneer DVD recorder and the built in HP/Compaq CD-rom/burner.  I used the copy disc function and for whatever reason it would fail with about 45 seconds to go in the process.  I tried it again and it failed.  Each time the program would ask me to check for dirt or finger prints which was totally bogus so I gave up on it.  I then tried CDR-Win.

For some reason or another, CDR-Win doesn't operate on my notebook.  It seems not to recognize the CD Roms.

I then tried my old Windows 98 SE based desktop where I have successfully backed up tons of Playstation, Saturn, Sega CD and PC games and programs using CDR-Win.  When trying to back up either Gate of Thunder or Dragon Slayer the process would complete succesfully, but when I tried to boot them in the Turbo Duo the system it would declare read or disc error.

I then gave Nero a shot, using the Disc Copy function, (reading from a Sony drive and an HP drive to burn the back up) and it worked quite well.  The system (Turbo Duo) still gave the back ups a few more reads then it would have for the original game discs, but they still played quite well with music intact and no glitches.  Basically longer load times.  But they did not fire the laser mechanism all the way to the right like I have experienced with some games I received along with my purchased TD.

I have bought two more brands if CD-R to try some further tests this weekend when I have some time.  I'm also going to try some variations on the programs on both my computers and see if I find any improvements.

If anyone else has any ideas or a proven process please post it here I would really appreciate it.

[MissaFX]

CDRwin

Extract Mode - check "Disc Image/Cuesheet"
Click on the ... box by the file name and make the filename anyfilename.bin.
Raw read - check
Error Recovery - Ignore
Jitter Correction - Enable
Subcode - Auto
Data Speed 1X
Audio Speed 1X
Read Retry - anything under 100
Subcode Threshold - you can leave that at 300

Do not move the files once you create them or they might not burn.  Sometimes CDRwin will not burn your image as "disc at once" on newer drives, this could be the problem you are having.  I use Instant Disc - Disc Copy to burn my bin+cue images of CDs on my DVD drive as it will burn with disc at once.


My media suggestion for you is to buy CDRs with ink writable surfaces.  The opaque surface helps with the reflectivity, which means less work for your duo.  The bestest CDR blank in the whole world as far as I know is a Diamond Silver Injetprintable Matte Surface CDR, burned at exactly 8X.  Silver CDRs are the only CDRs you want to burn at 8X because their ink requires the extra power output from the write laser.  They are the most reflective CDRs I know of though and while I do not own a Duo yet, I use them in a Sega CD, 3DO, and the PC-FX to name a few systems with older lasers.  Even my origional PS1 (american release) will play these CDRs.  I firmly believe in keeping my CD games in the package as much as possible and playing backups.  Just a few weeks ago I dropped what would have been my origional of Team Innocent, but luckally I was playing a CDR which fell between the right main speaker and the TV, getting very dusty and scratching itself on the corner of my video switcher before it hit the ground.  Since I keep my 3DO, Sega CD and PC-FX games on a removable 80GB HD, I just plugged it in and burned myself a new copy of TI and put the old one into the trash after "reformatting" it in the microwave.  If I ever have a fire here, that HD is one of the things I am saving for sure!  It's the best 40 dollar insurance money can buy.

[Maiden Hell]

Awesome, I'll give that a try as soon as I get home from school tomorrow afternoon. 

[SignOfZeta]

Well its been ages since I copied a PCE game in Windows, but back in the day I just used Easy CD Creator under Win 98 to make direct copies and never had a problem with whatever was the cheapest CD-R at Best Buy that week. Its kind of amazing the trouble you are having.

Anyway, use TurboRip and then burn the files it makes with whatever program you want.

Also, keep in mind that whatever the program says you are burning at, actually recording a CD at 1x is more or less impossible with any burner less than a decade old. Maybe the program will let you pick it, but most burners are minimum 4x.

[Maiden Hell]

CDRwin

Extract Mode - check "Disc Image/Cuesheet"
Click on the ... box by the file name and make the filename anyfilename.bin.
Raw read - check
Error Recovery - Ignore
Jitter Correction - Enable
Subcode - Auto
Data Speed 1X
Audio Speed 1X
Read Retry - anything under 100
Subcode Threshold - you can leave that at 300

I tried this method and it still failed.  It's rather strange, I never ever had a problem with CDR-Win on every other system I've backed up.

The only difference I noitced between our two methods is that at Jitter Correction you enable it and I have always ignored it.

I'm using an old HP burner as well...pretty wierd.

[MissaFX]

I tried this method and it still failed.  It's rather strange, I never ever had a problem with CDR-Win on every other system I've backed up.

The only difference I noitced between our two methods is that at Jitter Correction you enable it and I have always ignored it.

I'm using an old HP burner as well...pretty wierd.

It goes back to maybe your drive is not fully supported and will not burn in Disc At Once mode even though the option is selected.

[Maiden Hell]

Very well.  I will try a few different drives and see what's up.

I've got several bids going a few key games on ebay I really want so it doesn't matter in the long run, but I'll keep experimenting.

[SignOfZeta]

You are absolutely going to want jitter correction set to "on".

[agranger5]

Alcohol 120% does a good job at doing backups if you have the original.  If you already have a Bin / Cue file or a Cue file with MP3s or Wave files, then use Nero and click on the Recorder tab and then the Burn Image tab.  Both give excellent results with the right equipment which brings me to the next point.

Buy a Pioneer DVR-115 (If you have IDE) or a Pioneer DVR-212 (If you have SATA).
Either one of them will cost you 30 bucks from Newegg.com.  Then buy a cakebox of Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs from the same company for 22 bucks. 

For 60 bucks including shipping you can make the best burns possible for Turbo Duos.

I have spent hundreds of dollars trying out different burners and discs over the last 6 months to find the best results.  Most modern burners only allow CD's to be burned at a minimum of 16x. Most crap or mediocre media with big names will not burn good enough at that speed to eliminate long load times and will really stress the Turbo Duos Laser reading abilities.(Especially since it wasn't designed to read CD-Rs to begin with.)  I can even hear a light squealing or whirring noise continuously coming from my Turbo Duo Laser when playing backups made with low quality media or burns.

The Taiyo Yuden CDs are the main key and you can check on forums dedicated to DVD and CD burning and see that their reputation and consistant quality is primo.
They use a superior ink dye that older cd player and game systems can read without straining.

The reason for the Pioneer burners is that they will burn at both 10x and 4x.
For over the counter CD-Rs like TDK, Maxell, or Sony your best burn speed is 10x on the Pioneer. Your Turbo Duo will work OK with these different medias at this Speed. The 10x burns worked slightly better than the 4x burns.

But the real kicker is that if you team up the Pioneer Burners I mentioned above with the Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs, YOU CAN GET PERFECT BACKUPS BY BURNING AT 24X.         No squealing...the same load times as my original discs...excellent sound.  It's the best and fastest results I have gotten in the last 10 years with any burner / disc combination...and the most affordable!


Naturally this combination will not fix a broken Turbo Duo, but it does wonders for one whose laser is beginning to weaken.

I have both an American Turbo Duo and a Duo RX from Japan.  The RX plays everything I throw at it without complaint, but the American Duo squeals and complains if I don't feed it right.  I will probably pop in a new laser eventually, but for the last few months it has been great for testing out different burners and media.

I am not trying to be a know-it-all or any kind of a guru.  But I am extremely thorough in my pursuits.  When it comes to classic disc-based game systems, I have the Duo, a Saturn, a 3DO, Sega CD, a Dreamcast and a Neo Geo CD.  The Duo and the Neo Geo CD are the Pickiest at playing CD-Rs properly. And for good or bad, I am obsessive when it comes to finding the best quality and results in anything electronic.

Anyway, give the current Pioneer Burners and the Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs a shot.  If they don't help, then there is a major hardware issue somewhere in your game system.

[Maiden Hell]

Actually that info is fantastic.  Thanks for posting it.  I bought two different packs of budget CD-Rs and found that they gave the same sort of performance although one was actually a little bit better and worked just a good as an original CD-R.

I then tried Memorex 80min Black discs and they too see to work quite well.  I ripped the games with CD-R win and burned the files with Nero at 2x on my Windows 98 based system on the old HP burner and they worked fantastic.

All and all it doesn't really much matter anymore.  I managed to aquire some great games from a some local sellers.

All in mint to near mint condition:

Gradius (HuCard)
Parodius (HuCard)
Gradius II
Dragon Slayer
4 in 1 (Gate of Thunder, Bonk's Adv, Bonk's Revenge, Bomberman)
Lords of Thunder
Ys I & II
Ys III
Dracula X

These will keep me busy for quite a while and I can try out further test with these games at my leisure.

[Tatsujin]

and again one innocent system left our world due to the use of evil CDRs

[Maiden Hell]

No big deal.  New lenses are a dime a dozen.

[Tatsujin]

and does it also work now?

[Maiden Hell]

Yes it does with no problem what so ever. Like I said, it's depends on the brand of CD-R and the speed in which they are burned at.

The lense is flawless and if it ever does fail, I'll purchase a replacement.  Totally worth it for the gaming goodness I'm getting out of this classic system.

[nat]

I've been into the Turbo since 1990, and I wonder if I will ever experience all the rich, deep gaming the platform has to offer. When you include Japanese region titles, there are nearly 1,000 games available. Many of those are intricate RPGs that offer many hours of enjoyment. So much to experience...

I hope you hang on to the Duo for a long, long time and get a chance to really dig into the meat of the library.