The Light Gray "TurboGrafx System."

[FM-77]

60Hz is how often the TV updates the frame, 60FPS is how many frames the hardware actually deliver. The TV will always update the frame at 50 or 60 times, depending on the video mode, but the hardware will NEVER deliver a solid 50 or 60 FPS.

Wow.  Just wow.  Have you never seen a game scroll?  Most games scroll at 60fps.  That's right, it's in a different position 59.94 times per second (the TV actually runs at 59.94Hz).  Some games like Wonderboy 3 on the SMS, scroll at 30fps (rounded up from 29.97).  The Turbo/PCE version of the same game scrolls much smoother at 60fps. 

Can YOU tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps?  Try and see if you can tell me which of these identical clips is a solid 60fps and which is a solid 30fps.  It is from Super Monkey Ball which runs at 60fps and never, ever drops a frame

Quicktime format - 1.86 MB

WMV format - 2.16 MB

Note: If your computer is slow/ancient, you may have trouble playing back the file without it stuttering.  In this case the results would be inconclusive to you.

Of course console games generally run at 30 or 60 FPS using v-sync, but that's not what I meant. I was talking about FPS drops, which occur in almost every game at times.

[Joe Redifer]

I don't recall seeing many games before the 3D generation with frame drops.  Yes, there definitely were some, but not a ton.  If something slows when it is, say, fading out, I wouldn't really count that.

[FM-77]

I don't recall seeing many games before the 3D generation with frame drops.  Yes, there definitely were some, but not a ton.  If something slows when it is, say, fading out, I wouldn't really count that.

Lots of NES and SNES games had them... Ducktales comes to mind.

[Black Tiger]

Lots of games have slowdown, which can give the appearence of choppiness since you have enough time to see the increments that objects are really moving at. But I don't remember any 'retro' 2D games that appeared to drop/skip frames.

[Bonknuts]

 Old 2D system didn't "drop frames" because they used a totally different type of video system/setup. They are not rendering to a frame buffer in the same way PC and later games system did/do. You'd *really* have to go out of your way to make a frame drop system for an old 2D console, and even then it wouldn't eliminate slowdown in every case and wouldn't be the same as a PC/3D console equivalent.

 Games that ran in 30fps are not the same as a frame drop system. 

[FM-77]

I don't know what it's called, but that kind of slowdown sure is common in old video games.

[Joe Redifer]

PAL systems tend to have more CPU headroom and therefore usually see less slowdown.

[nat]

I've never owned PAL-anything, but from what I've heard, it sounds like PAL is a colossal pile of crap. Who wants to play games in slow motion except little girls?

[Joe Redifer]

Don't forget the distorted aspect ratio!  Games made and/or optimized for PAL are pretty cool.  PAL 60 is nice because you get NTSC speed and PAL color + PAL resolution.

[Fidde_se]

Hate bringing up such an old thread, but it's on the right subject, there a few threads about Turbografx (EU), any how the conclusion is that it has a crystal giving the PAL timing (frequency) making the games 17% slower, meaning that the EXT connector is actually putting out the composite in NTSC50 (that's damn unusual, PAL60 is nearly common) only the DIN socket has the true PAL output, changing the crystal would mean that you could get the normal NTSC in 60hz just like all other TG16/PCEs out there.

If anyone ever wondered why there is black borders on PAL games, it's not because it's crappier, but it's the programmers that were lazy, difference between PAL and NTSC is Hz, Colour Table and Resolution, they simply just took NTSC games (480 Lines) and not changing the frequency but Colour Table, meaning the tv stabilized the picture in the middle of the screen giving the black borders up and down and PAL having 525 or even 625 Lines but only 576 contains picture (PAL LaserDiscs could have 625 Lines where NTSC has 425 Lines, NTSC DVDs have 480 Lines... meaning good PAL LaserDiscs were like HD... nearly).

Optimized PAL games run at full speed but has 20% higher resolution, NTSC outputs 30 (29.97) frames per second (60hz is just two same looking frames after each other, yes 60fps is 60 different pictures after each other but that's another thing) PAL has 25 frames per second.

This will also result in that movies have different length in PAL or NTSC countries, all the frames are laid out and fit into its frame per second and the audio has to be stretched to fit them, and no Hollywood does no make films in NTSC, frame rate might be the same (not any more though) but it does not share any colour table and resolution.

When in RGB colour table can be ignored.

To get back to what I started to say is that optimized PAL games running in 50/60hz modded machines that are being run in 60hz, then the games runs 17% faster then the normal NTSC 60Hz game were intended to run in...

If any Turbografx EU owners out there would like to run in 60hz we could take a look at it.

[esteban]

STATUS: Damn. 

[Tatsujin]

houly, what kind of a mess did I just read

[Black Tiger]

I think it's a waste to ruin a collectible item like a PAL TurboGrafx by messing with the hardware in an attempt to get it to function closer to the millions of common consoles already available. I don't think that even in Europe it's cheaper to buy a TurboGrafx + shipping than it is to buy a PC Engine or TurboGrafx-16 + shipping.

[Xak]

Light Gray is awesome

[Bloufo]

Aah yes, the PAL TurboGrafx.
Adds an extra flavor to the TG16/PC Engine family of systems.