Top ten PCE/Turbo RPG's (CD or HU)...

[nodtveidt]

I don't get how anyone who plays video games can NOT be clear on what a console RPG is, it's pretty obvious that there are straight console RPGs (like Cosmic Fantasy, Dragon Slayer, etc), action-RPGs (Ys, Neutopia II, Blood Gear, Exile), and action games with some light rpg elements (like Cadash).

When people try to take the phrase literally, almost every game becomes an RPG. I think it's the only genre of games where you can't take its label too literally. As for CF2 and games like it, they're generally referred to as "traditional" RPGs, thought "straight" RPG is a phrase that gets used sometimes too.

[_joshuaTurbo]

Exile and Exile II both fit the description of an RPG. Cadash and the Neutopias don't, but they are close enough to be labeled hybrid-genre.

So what makes an RPG an RPG?  Games that let you buy shit at stores?  That would seem to be the deciding factor, as Cadash has levels and experience.

Lords of Thunder lets you buy shit at stores!!

My New #1 is Lords of Thunder!

What about Forgotten Worlds or Downtown Nekketsu monogatari?

Theres ALOT more RPG's on the Duo than I thought!!

[Joe Redifer]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.  Lunar 1's Alex is almost mute, but he has 1 vocal line in the game I think. 

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

To me, games like Exile are most certainly NOT RPGs.  Exile 1 can be beaten in less than 2 hours and features extremely weak character development.

[nectarsis]

Brave Story for the psp has a mute main character 

[nodtveidt]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.  Lunar 1's Alex is almost mute, but he has 1 vocal line in the game I think. 

True, but other player characters in Lunar have lines, and tons of them (Ramus, Luna, Nash, Mia, Jessica, Kyle). Ys, however, is difficult to consider an RPG considering there is no player character development and the story isn't about Adol but about the world of Ys. Besides, the "mute" criteria is a minor one...it can be overshadowed by strong character development, which is the case in Lunar. Alex has one single spoken line in the Sega CD version and several lines in the Playstation remake, but the focus on the characters in Lunar is so powerful that it doesn't matter if Alex barely speaks.

Also, it's important to understand that a lot of games that are labeled as RPGs are not actually RPGs.

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

No. It loses its RPG title and is demoted to a simple adventure game or even a "mob game", which are certainly not RPGs in any sense of the word. The gameplay style doesn't make the game an RPG or not.

To me, games like Exile are most certainly NOT RPGs.  Exile 1 can be beaten in less than 2 hours and features extremely weak character development.

Exile has far more character development than Ys. Far more. The time it takes to complete is irrelevant. Furthermore, Exile and Exile II both focus on the main characters of the story. Ys focuses on the world around the main character and not the character himself.

[Black Tiger]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.  Lunar 1's Alex is almost mute, but he has 1 vocal line in the game I think. 

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

To me, games like Exile are most certainly NOT RPGs.  Exile 1 can be beaten in less than 2 hours and features extremely weak character development.

Phantasy Star 1 basically was only "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon". But it still feels more epic and like a complete story than the sequel which added a ton more story driving dialogue.

[Keranu]

Actually I just played through Lunar Sega CD and I think Alex had a whopping TWO lines, both vocal! There was one where Galeon killed the white dragon where he screamed something and then there was another one at the end about Luna.

[Necromancer]

I don't get how anyone who plays video games can NOT be clear on what a console RPG is, it's pretty obvious that there are straight console RPGs (like Cosmic Fantasy, Dragon Slayer, etc), action-RPGs (Ys, Neutopia II, Blood Gear, Exile), and action games with some light rpg elements (like Cadash).

Word up.  Even this ijit has a pretty good handle on how to categorize games, though there's always a few titles that straddle the line between genres.

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.

Adol has a line or two during the cinema between Book I and Book II.

[Keranu]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.

Adol has a line or two during the cinema between Book I and Book II.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't. The only line I can remember from Adol in Ys Book I & II was when he was disquised as a monster at Solomon's Shrine in Ys II and told the guard the secret passcode to get in. He was quite the chitter chatter (compared to other Ys games) in Ys III, but he got quiet again in Dawn of Ys (I think like two lines).

[Joe Redifer]

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

No. It loses its RPG title and is demoted to a simple adventure game or even a "mob game", which are certainly not RPGs in any sense of the word. The gameplay style doesn't make the game an RPG or not.

OK I realize we're really going off on an tangent with this one, but what about an RPG in Japanese played by an American such as myself?  I cannot read any text in the game, yet there is text there.  It doesn't matter if there is an epic storyline or if the characters are just saying "bathtub" over and over again, I would never know!  Is it still an RPG?  (This is one of those "tree falls in the woods" questions).

[Bonknuts]

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

No. It loses its RPG title and is demoted to a simple adventure game or even a "mob game", which are certainly not RPGs in any sense of the word. The gameplay style doesn't make the game an RPG or not.

OK I realize we're really going off on an tangent with this one, but what about an RPG in Japanese played by an American such as myself?  I cannot read any text in the game, yet there is text there.  It doesn't matter if there is an epic storyline or if the characters are just saying "bathtub" over and over again, I would never know!  Is it still an RPG?  (This is one of those "tree falls in the woods" questions).

 Your question can easily be solved with another question. Is a video game not a video game if one does not understand the mechanics of it?

 My opinion for what it's not worth and for the record, strategy RPGs are not RPGs. They can have all the character development/storyline/whatever, but they are not RPGs. Not in the sense of traditional J-RPGs which RPG was/is (and rightfully should still be) analogous to. Sure there are hybrids, but hybrids are usually more of one than both. Shining Force a good example.

 You've got (j) RPGs, (c) RPGs, action-RPGs, adventure(action-adventure for you EU twits ). Neutopia and Zelda falls into the action-adventure genre. Ys III falls into the action-RPG genre. Ys I & II and IV is hard to classify as a straight RPG because of it's action element, but god damn it sure feels more like an RPG than an action-RPG. Then you have strategy RPGs and their sub genre. Jesus Christ. Oh yeah, shooter-RPG (that one for GBA - I forget the name).

[Keranu]

Ok so I'm confused now by nod's definition of an RPG being based on it's story telling. What if a game with absolutely no RPG gameplay elements had a deep story like a normal RPG, like Super Mario Bros. or something, would it be considered an RPG?

[Black Tiger]

A lot of RPGs have MUTE characters.  Ys, for instance.

Adol has a line or two during the cinema between Book I and Book II.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't. The only line I can remember from Adol in Ys Book I & II was when he was disquised as a monster at Solomon's Shrine in Ys II and told the guard the secret passcode to get in. He was quite the chitter chatter (compared to other Ys games) in Ys III, but he got quiet again in Dawn of Ys (I think like two lines).

In Ys I & II, there is dialogue text for Adol in the scene where Lilia finds him at the beginning of Ys II. But I think that Adol's dialogue and the couple of lines from Alex in Lunar Sega-CD were added to the english versions.

[nectarsis]

What if there was a game that had all of the mechanics of an RPG.  Let's say it was exactly like Phantasy Star 1.  But there was no real story.  The dialog just consisted of "There are more monsters here" or "There is a boss monster at the end of this dungeon".  The only thing changed is what the text says.  Is it still and RPG?

No. It loses its RPG title and is demoted to a simple adventure game or even a "mob game", which are certainly not RPGs in any sense of the word. The gameplay style doesn't make the game an RPG or not.

OK I realize we're really going off on an tangent with this one, but what about an RPG in Japanese played by an American such as myself?  I cannot read any text in the game, yet there is text there.  It doesn't matter if there is an epic storyline or if the characters are just saying "bathtub" over and over again, I would never know!  Is it still an RPG?  (This is one of those "tree falls in the woods" questions).

 Your question can easily be solved with another question. Is a video game not a video game if one does not understand the mechanics of it?

 My opinion for what it's not worth and for the record, strategy RPGs are not RPGs. They can have all the character development/storyline/whatever, but they are not RPGs. Not in the sense of traditional J-RPGs which RPG was/is (and rightfully should still be) analogous to. Sure there are hybrids, but hybrids are usually more of one than both. Shining Force a good example.

 You've got (j) RPGs, (c) RPGs, action-RPGs, adventure(action-adventure for you EU twits ). Neutopia and Zelda falls into the action-adventure genre. Ys III falls into the action-RPG genre. Ys I & II and IV is hard to classify as a straight RPG because of it's action element, but god damn it sure feels more like an RPG than an action-RPG. Then you have strategy RPGs and their sub genre. Jesus Christ. Oh yeah, shooter-RPG (that one for GBA - I forget the name).

(c) rpg...classic??

[Necromancer]

In Ys I & II, there is dialogue text for Adol in the scene where Lilia finds him at the beginning of Ys II. But I think that Adol's dialogue and the couple of lines from Alex in Lunar Sega-CD were added to the english versions.

That's the part that I was talking about.  After a quick look on Youtube, it looks like the same scene is in the Japanese original, though the text is in Japanese, so I could be wrong about who's doing the talking.