The attack of eBay Seller stardogchampion1990 and the tale of a Super CD-ROM2

[Bonknuts]

 I really don't see what the problem was in the original contact. You didn't get what was described and he offered you a *full* refund. Where is the problem in that? In his email, he obviously doesn't believe you about the problems with the CD unit. Why should he? He doesn't know you personally. You have no credibility. There are plenty of complete idiots out there and love to prove they're not by "X" amount of experience or whatever. He offered to remedy the situation with a full refund. He's not obligated to repair or provided expense for repair. Even if the product was tested by a certified third party.

 (I read the whole thing expecting some real nasty situation.)

 Secondly (not directed towards you.. but definitely to other people I know in RL!), if you're looking for *MINT* specific items, DO NOT buy from ebay. That's just f-ing insane. *MINT* on ebay is subjective. Period. Anyone who'd expect a *MINT* item without looking at the specific item in person is just setting themselves up for disappointment. I've heard repeated complaints from the same people in RL who just don't learn. /rant off

[rag-time4]

I could have "demanded" a partial refund of something. But I don't like getting into that kind of thing and I didn't want it to lead to anything negative since I figured he'd likely have things I'd want to buy in the future that I wouldn't find elsewhere.

But separate from how he handled the problem afterwards, it doesn't change the fact that he knowingly sold and packaged/sent a stinking oily console that didn't work very well.

BT, my first experience with Toshi was a bad one too... I bought a NEW/SEALED copy of Nobunaga-no Yabou Bushoufuuunroku (Lord of Darkness), but when I opened it i found it was a re-seal. It was sealed in shrinkwrap and while it had the spine card, it was missing the manual and the poster...

I told him about it and if i remember he gave me a refund without even my asking for one.

Then in subsequent orders he found a lot of koei stuff that is really hard to come by, so he's without question my go-to ebay seller.

[Michael Helgeson]

I really don't see what the problem was in the original contact. You didn't get what was described and he offered you a *full* refund. Where is the problem in that? In his email, he obviously doesn't believe you about the problems with the CD unit. Why should he? He doesn't know you personally. You have no credibility. There are plenty of complete idiots out there and love to prove they're not by "X" amount of experience or whatever. He offered to remedy the situation with a full refund. He's not obligated to repair or provided expense for repair. Even if the product was tested by a certified third party.

 (I read the whole thing expecting some real nasty situation.)

 Secondly (not directed towards you.. but definitely to other people I know in RL!), if you're looking for *MINT* specific items, DO NOT buy from ebay. That's just f-ing insane. *MINT* on ebay is subjective. Period. Anyone who'd expect a *MINT* item without looking at the specific item in person is just setting themselves up for disappointment. I've heard repeated complaints from the same people in RL who just don't learn. /rant off

Actually he could have been a ass,got a repair estimate stating it didn't work,fax it into paypal after filing a claim,and just got a full refund. Paypal will do this on electronics items advertised as perfect working that end up not being if you can give valid proof they do not upon arrival from a repair shop. There was nothing in Quoths feedback giving any kind of credence to a master plan of ripping the guy off in some way,and the guy was not correct on the details of the auction. Looking back,the guy had prior selling issues to,so in the who to believe game,the buyer with 100 percent positive feedback is the one obviously.

 Quoth was being pretty generous by simply requesting a partial refund to cover the laser repair. There is more then one way to settle a dispute after all. He could have done what I said above,or sent it back and left a bad negative stating item sent was all damaged and non working just as well,with  a follow up message to contact quoth for more details and pics. That would have been a must anyway to keep the guy from relisting it in said condition and selling it off to someone else. Besides,the guy obviously wasn't a man of his word. He lied about condition and completeness,overcharged almost $14.00 for shipping, and he stated he only had 15 in paypal.

And who's to say he'd even do the refund once the item arrived back in his hands,as he stated,he didn't even have  a bank account attached to his paypal account. Paypal couldn't get the funds from him if he had nothing there to give.

[quoth09]

I found the discussion of Toshi's store interesting... You said that you know that you wouldn't have these kinds of problems with him, so why not reward him for his good service?

You would have spent more on shipping but you wouldn't have to worry about your item not working, as you said, and it would have been well packed. So the desire to save a few bucks ended up causing heartache and wasted time and energy...

I recently got a $50 paypal coupon, and after failing to find a copy of Drac X or downtown nekketsu monogatari, i decided to spend it at Toshi's store... he's taken some time to help me track down some complete Koei games for PS1 so I try to support his store whenever I can and overall i've found his packing and his service to be the best of any seller i've dealt with on ebay.

If people don't support good businesses, they will go under, and we'll be left with people who are only out to make a quick few bucks like the seller in your auction.

I spent 580$ last year with Toshi...and actually you know, I am wishing I had just bought from him. The main thing, is that I know these things cost a lot to ship, and that is why. I also saw it cheaper than what Toshi was offering at  the time...so what are you saying? I shouldn't price shop or go for the best deal? Also Toshi's won't come with a CoreGrafx II. So actually I saved more than a FEW. That is beside the point though. What was sold and stated, is NOT what I received. I completely ignored all the defects and non-completeness of the whole auction and focused on the laser, which is what really mattered. Also, the fact is, I would have been out an additional 15$ at least + this guy probably wouldn't have refunded my shipping money, that he overcharged me on in the first place.

In fact, I am probably going to be buying a 2nd unit from Toshi anyway, and kind of already planned to do so prior to this. I also will be purchasing plenty of other items, and I know other people that deal with him all the time...so I really doubt he will be going under anytime soon.

Out of all of this, kinda funny, but with all this talk about Toshi, you are making it out to sound like that you have no problem with what this guy sold to me. 


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I had pretty much the exact same experience as quoth09, minus the rudeness or a refund, with a purchase from Toshi/Dream Stars.

Really? I'm shocked. That doesn't fit his MO.

So what was the outcome/resolution if you didn't get a refund?

Yeah, the 2 times I have dealt with Toshi, great packing and superb product. In fact both times, it was items that were not even on eBay that I bought from him.

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I really don't see what the problem was in the original contact. You didn't get what was described and he offered you a *full* refund. Where is the problem in that? In his email, he obviously doesn't believe you about the problems with the CD unit. Why should he? He doesn't know you personally. You have no credibility. There are plenty of complete idiots out there and love to prove they're not by "X" amount of experience or whatever. He offered to remedy the situation with a full refund. He's not obligated to repair or provided expense for repair. Even if the product was tested by a certified third party.

 (I read the whole thing expecting some real nasty situation.)

 Secondly (not directed towards you.. but definitely to other people I know in RL!), if you're looking for *MINT* specific items, DO NOT buy from ebay. That's just f-ing insane. *MINT* on ebay is subjective. Period. Anyone who'd expect a *MINT* item without looking at the specific item in person is just setting themselves up for disappointment. I've heard repeated complaints from the same people in RL who just don't learn. /rant off

The problem with accepting the full refund, was the fact that this guy was not happy with how much it went for (tough shit for him), claimed that I had gotten a good deal (which I hadn't), and then later on started showing his true colors about how much of a scammer and fraud he is, by blatantly stating that he was just going to relist everything separately if I did send it back, and obviously not state what the true condition was. Also the crap about how he is so passive to just let other sellers walk over him when he receives junk...I don't trust anyone like that.

I also offered to make videos of what this thing is doing for him. If that doesn't speak volumes as to wanting to provide proof, I don't know what does.

As far as obligations go...Yeah, he is obligated. Obligated to send me a working system. Obligated to send me what I purchased in the same condition as what was stated on the auction details. Paypal obligates him to do so. If he doesn't want to make the obligation to not being a liar, then maybe he shouldn't be using Paypal. Maybe he should have only accepted Money Orders, so then, he would have gotten even less on it, and he wouldn't have had to deal with me, the person that wants what the auction stated.

Pretty much like what Michael said, I could have been a real dick.

I think you need to go back and re-read some of those emails though.

Also, regardless of whether or not it is at me or not, your 2nd statement is disagreeable partially. This is one of the very few items that I have purchased off of eBay as MINT, and it not been. In fact this is probably the WORST condition MINT item I have ever received in my life. Your friend sounds like he doesn't learn though.

[Bonknuts]

Actually he could have been a ass,got a repair estimate stating it didn't work,fax it into paypal after filing a claim,and just got a full refund.

 But the guy already offered him a refund right off the bat, so what does that have to do with anything? I stated that the seller is not responsible for "repair" bills - only a full refund. If I sold a working item to someone and they respond back saying this item is broken, but instead of giving me a full refund - just refund me some $$ so I can get it fixed. Yeah, right. It's very easy to say this, and I already know of instances of people doing this to my brother on ebay.

There was nothing in Quoths feedback giving any kind of credence to a master plan of ripping the guy off in some way

So a thief or con man *would* have given the seller some kind of clue indicating he was such? That really doesn't make sense.

Quoth was being pretty generous by simply requesting a partial refund to cover the laser repair.

 
See my first statement. The buyer has no credibility or integrity to the seller.

 

And who's to say he'd even do the refund once the item arrived back in his hands,as he stated,he didn't even have  a bank account attached to his paypal account. Paypal couldn't get the funds from him if he had nothing there to give.

 What? If you're going out on that level of trust, why even bother buying from ebay in the first place?

 My whole point is that seller originally offered a refund on the first contact about said problem. It would seem the seller became suspicious of quoth09's alternative idea (and rightfully so given that this type of scam has been done before).

[quoth09]

Actually he could have been a ass,got a repair estimate stating it didn't work,fax it into paypal after filing a claim,and just got a full refund.

But the guy already offered him a refund right off the bat, so what does that have to do with anything? I stated that the seller is not responsible for "repair" bills - only a full refund. If I sold a working item to someone and they respond back saying this item is broken, but instead of giving me a full refund - just refund me some $$ so I can get it fixed. Yeah, right. It's very easy to say this, and I already know of instances of people doing this to my brother on ebay.

Actually depends on the situation and the item. When it comes to items like this that can be repaired, then yeah I think the person should be given the option. I opted to save the guy time of having to relist it, not to mention like I said, he showed his true colors afterwards, of how much of a liar he is. I don't like seeing other people get ripped off, and that is exactly what had happened if I would have sent this back, not to mention I would have been ripped off for how much ever on shipping, etc.

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And who's to say he'd even do the refund once the item arrived back in his hands,as he stated,he didn't even have  a bank account attached to his paypal account. Paypal couldn't get the funds from him if he had nothing there to give.

What? If you're going out on that level of trust, why even bother buying from ebay in the first place?

Because most sellers on there aren't liars. Paypal protects you from the ones that are, so you don't have to worry about this kind of crap. His account is not mine, so I don't really care what he has. All I know is that if I have an issue with someone that I bought something from, they better be able to cover their own ass. I don't do this kind of crap to people, and I expect the same from others.

My whole point is that seller originally offered a refund on the first contact about said problem. It would seem the seller became suspicious of quoth09's alternative idea (and rightfully so given that this type of scam has been done before).

Well that's fine, he can be suspicious about me all he wants. I'm sure he wouldn't have been so suspicious of me when I would have filed that Paypal claim.

[Michael Helgeson]

Your answers mostly come from the naive assumption that the guy would keep his word and do the refund and that a full refund was the only way to resolve the issues. Thinking outside the box will get you alot farther in life. You are also clearly ignoring the fact the guy lied about said condition,working ability,and overcharged almost double on shipping.... The guy had already lied about the completeness and condition. From then on there was trust issues. His feedback was around a low 97 also I think. That being the case,and him admitting he only had $15 in paypal,and didn't even have his account linked to a bank account,it is not likely Quoth would have got the full refund he would have been due,easily.

There should be no question about Quoths intentions to rip the guy off. It was obvious he was not trying to do so. Quoth offered to make to make  a video of it having its performance problems. His feedback is 100 percent. If Quoth was in a habit to rip every seller off his feedback wouldn't be that way,at that rating,thats a given and a dead give away then that Quoth only intended to rip the guy off if it was indeed full of negatives and bad statements. You know this and not every experience is defined by your brothers past experiences obviously. The only way I can think you are taking up for a seller like this is A: the seller is your brother you spoke of, or B: you are entirely too trusting that someone will always make it right  on faith alone after they have already lied on 3 points,which makes you a very foolish person.

The is no sure way the guy would follow through on the refund after lying 3 times in a row and having feedback issues. Like I said,Quoth could have easily just started  a claim,got  a statement from a repair shop,and requested  a full refund. Paypal also allows you to settle for partial refunds btw if worked out Mal.... He gave him a decent way out of the mess. He could have also reported the guy to paypal for not having his bank account linked to his paypal one,thus freezing the guys paypal account. I'd say Quoth was more then fair about the entire situation given everything involved.

[Lochlan]

Thanks for the tip quoth!  I've added this guy to my list of ebayers to avoid.

*MINT* on ebay is subjective.

Preposterous.  (Picture me saying this while wearing a top hat and monocle.)  What you are suggesting is just semantically incorrect.  It may appear to be "subjective" because a lot of people on ebay are liars, but no amount of liars will ever change the definition of "mint condition".

The number of people who outright lie about an item's condition is a huge problem on ebay, and I agree that, to an extent, you have to just "accept it" if you insist on doing business with ebay sellers.  If I get jerked around around like that I always ask for a partial refund but I never expect one.  If they do decide to give me a partial refund they're usually pretty rude about it, too.

eBay sucks.

[Bonknuts]

It may appear to be "subjective" because a lot of people on ebay are liars, but no amount of liars will ever change the definition of "mint condition".

 And because you know what every single user/seller/buyer thinks, right? There are a lot of people who don't know what mint means in context to whatever item it pertains to. Making the assumption that everyone's a liar that incorrectly uses the term *mint* is a bit pretentious, don't you think?

Actually depends on the situation and the item. When it comes to items like this that can be repaired, then yeah I think the person should be given the option. I opted to save the guy time of having to relist it, not to mention like I said, he showed his true colors afterwards, of how much of a liar he is. I don't like seeing other people get ripped off, and that is exactly what had happened if I would have sent this back, not to mention I would have been ripped off for how much ever on shipping, etc.

 Did you not understand what I stated previously? YOU, yes you, have no credibility to this seller. Scammers and tightwads/jerks are known to ask for *part* of their money back for an item not meeting their expectations or claim that a part of broken and they want partial compensation.

 Did you ever think that maybe the item was *working* flawlessly before he/she sent it to you? And then you email him stating it doesn't work, but refund me a small part so you can "fix it"? That's very naive of you.

The is no sure way the guy would follow through on the refund after lying 3 times in a row and having feedback issues. Like I said,Quoth could have easily just started  a claim,got  a statement from a repair shop,and requested  a full refund. Paypal also allows you to settle for partial refunds btw if worked out Mal.... He gave him a decent way out of the mess. He could have also reported the guy to paypal for not having his bank account linked to his paypal one,thus freezing the guys paypal account. I'd say Quoth was more then fair about the entire situation given everything involved.

 You totally missed the point I was making, Mike.

[Michael Helgeson]

No,I simply think your logic is flawed and you are missing our point,as your stating that the scammer/liar/problematic feedback seller is the trust worthy member on ebay to be relied upon for a full refund after he gets the goods back,and the buyer with 100 percent feedback is the possible scammer out to make  a fast buck and not just actually expect to be able to resolve any kind of issues.....Seriously Mal,are you high tonite???

[quoth09]

Thanks for the tip quoth!  I've added this guy to my list of ebayers to avoid.

No problem, I would feel bad if someone else here bought from this guy, they got ripped off, and I didn't say anything about it beforehand. I would feel responsible in some way.

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Actually depends on the situation and the item. When it comes to items like this that can be repaired, then yeah I think the person should be given the option. I opted to save the guy time of having to relist it, not to mention like I said, he showed his true colors afterwards, of how much of a liar he is. I don't like seeing other people get ripped off, and that is exactly what had happened if I would have sent this back, not to mention I would have been ripped off for how much ever on shipping, etc.

Did you not understand what I stated previously? YOU, yes you, have no credibility to this seller. Scammers and tightwads/jerks are known to ask for *part* of their money back for an item not meeting their expectations or claim that a part of broken and they want partial compensation.

 Did you ever think that maybe the item was *working* flawlessly before he/she sent it to you? And then you email him stating it doesn't work, but refund me a small part so you can "fix it"? That's very naive of you.

I may not have any credibility to him, but guess what...he had even less with me, due to the fact that he lied about the condition of the item, and the games. So I'm supposed to trust a liar to do the right thing, eh? Sure...

Did you ever notice that he failed to say he would file an insurance claim at any point in time? He got insurance on it. If it was broken in transit (which it wasn't) then he would have been able to easily file on it. He would have obviously lost anyway, after the postal service would have seen his packing job.

If it's very naive of me to doubt him telling the truth when he lied about the condition (which I was looking to look past), then so be it.

[Bonknuts]

If it's very naive of me to doubt him telling the truth when he lied about the condition (which I was looking to look past), then so be it.

 No, but it's not ok say "The condition of these items are not what I was expecting, but I'll look past that" and then keep bringing it up. It's either "it does matter" or "it doesn't matter". Not that "it matters if and when I need to make my case stronger in some frivolous debate" sort of thing.

Did you ever notice that he failed to say he would file an insurance claim at any point in time?

And what business is that of yours? The insurance covers the shipper and is for the shipper, not the buyer (although this should really be the otherway 'round). Do you know for a fact that he/she wasn't going to file a claim?

I may not have any credibility to him, but guess what...he had even less with me, due to the fact that he lied about the condition of the item, and the games. So I'm supposed to trust a liar to do the right thing, eh? Sure...

He would have obviously lost anyway, after the postal service would have seen his packing job.

Irrelevant. You're not the qualified person at the post office making the call. Nor is it relevant to your argument.

 You trusted him enough to receive your $30, didn't you? If he's such the jerk and untrustworthy person, then why did he give you the $30?

 It's funny, you think you're in the 100% right and he's in the wrong. Yet you don't know anything about this person and make lots of assumptions, though.

 There are a lot of members and people in general that get/got burnt from ebay. Your recent transaction was not one of them.

No,I simply think your logic is flawed and you are missing our point,as your stating that the scammer/liar/problematic feedback seller is the trust worthy member on ebay to be relied upon for a full refund after he gets the goods back,and the buyer with 100 percent feedback is the possible scammer out to make  a fast buck and not just actually expect to be able to resolve any kind of issues.....Seriously Mal,are you high tonite???

 Haha, a 97% is a dead give away on a persons credibility? News flash Mike: there are people in this world that are jerks, anal retentive drama queens, pissants, and what not that allowed to leave whatever feed back they want. People are quick to jump to conclusions and make quickdraw assumptions, because you know - it's there god given right. Every argument/conflict has two sides, the truth lays somewhere in between. I take it you've never been ripped off by someone who's has 100% feedback? Ignorance is bliss.

 To no one specific: I'm not arguing for the seller. I'm arguing that the sellers point of view, opinion, and experience isn't projected here or unknown or represented in any way here. Yet it's already determined the guy is scum because tried to offer a refund at the first email/complaint and that his promise of a refund was an obvious attempt to get back those goods without refunding the buyer. Eventually he gave the buyer the partial refund he wanted. Pfft.. that f*cker.

 I have nothing more to say.

 

 

[Michael Helgeson]

If it's very naive of me to doubt him telling the truth when he lied about the condition (which I was looking to look past), then so be it.

 No, but it's not ok say "The condition of these items are not what I was expecting, but I'll look past that" and then keep bringing it up. It's either "it does matter" or "it doesn't matter". Not that "it matters if and when I need to make my case stronger in some frivolous debate" sort of thing.

Did you ever notice that he failed to say he would file an insurance claim at any point in time?

And what business is that of yours? The insurance covers the shipper and is for the shipper, not the buyer (although this should really be the otherway 'round). Do you know for a fact that he/she wasn't going to file a claim?

I may not have any credibility to him, but guess what...he had even less with me, due to the fact that he lied about the condition of the item, and the games. So I'm supposed to trust a liar to do the right thing, eh? Sure...

He would have obviously lost anyway, after the postal service would have seen his packing job.

Irrelevant. You're not the qualified person at the post office making the call. Nor is it relevant to your argument.

 You trusted him enough to receive your $30, didn't you? If he's such the jerk and untrustworthy person, then why did he give you the $30?

 It's funny, you think you're in the 100% right and he's in the wrong. Yet you don't know anything about this person and make lots of assumptions, though.

 There are a lot of members and people in general that get/got burnt from ebay. Your recent transaction was not one of them.

No,I simply think your logic is flawed and you are missing our point,as your stating that the scammer/liar/problematic feedback seller is the trust worthy member on ebay to be relied upon for a full refund after he gets the goods back,and the buyer with 100 percent feedback is the possible scammer out to make  a fast buck and not just actually expect to be able to resolve any kind of issues.....Seriously Mal,are you high tonite???

 Haha, a 97% is a dead give away on a persons credibility? News flash Mike: there are people in this world that are jerks, anal retentive drama queens, pissants, and what not that allowed to leave whatever feed back they want. People are quick to jump to conclusions and make quickdraw assumptions, because you know - it's there god given right. Every argument/conflict has two sides, the truth lays somewhere in between. I take it you've never been ripped off by someone who's has 100% feedback? Ignorance is bliss.

 To no one specific: I'm not arguing for the seller. I'm arguing that the sellers point of view, opinion, and experience isn't projected here or unknown or represented in any way here. Yet it's already determined the guy is scum because tried to offer a refund at the first email/complaint and that his promise of a refund was an obvious attempt to get back those goods without refunding the buyer. Eventually he gave the buyer the partial refund he wanted. Pfft.. that f*cker.

 I have nothing more to say.

 

 

I have been ripped off buy  a seller before with 100 percent feedback,and I state seller,not buyer,and the person sold me  a CLD-301 listed as perfect working,when infact it was dead due to the lase rassembly being broken inside. This was my first experience in learning paypal will refund in full if you get a statement from a repair shop Mal. This guys feed back issues are  a tad too many to just be random a$$holes. Ive dealt with plenty of jerks and not had as many problems. So has Quoth,his fb is still at 100 percent.

From past experience Id say its a good judgement call that the seller wouldnt file a claim. Why you ask? He wanted the item sent back to him. You dont do that when filing a claim.
The seller stated his intent to resale it,even damaged. That and not stating he would be willing to file  a claim leans towards a good possibility he knew it had working issues on the drive.

 Claim wise the seller files the claim with USPS,and the recipient fills out a statement and turns the package in for a full inspection. If the items packing was in great condition,more likely then not USPS would not grant the damage claim,as they would inspect the item and see scratches and chips on said item and know from being packed well those didnt happen in transit. Then they may tag it for insurance fraud and go after the seller possibly.

I dont think Quoth even trusted him to refund the $30,he just offered him the chance to do so and make right considering everything else in the situation was wrong. He def didnt trust him to do the full refund. Past experience with these types of sellers dictate they usually dont once they get the stuff back,or they do,after being forced by paypal,and then only if enough funds are present in their account.

The Sellers side of the story? Its all present in all the pics,posted email replies,packageing pics,pic of package label itself showing he ripped Quoth off on shipping. All of that stuff speaks for itself.

If it was a court trial in small claims the seller would be found liable in some manner due to all the evidence obviously.

At anyrate,both Quoth and I speak from years of experience in this field. Others here with high feedback amounts above  a 98 percent rating would most likely make the same conclusions. I think Quoth was more then fair. The seller was at fault obviously,and was given a chance to make it right. He did so,but only grudgingly. In the mean time he managed to spit out insults here and there while Quoth was simply stating if the issues couldnt be resolved he would file a claim which is what is normaly done in said cases when things cant be worked out.

[Necromancer]

I really don't see what the problem was in the original contact. You didn't get what was described and he offered you a *full* refund. Where is the problem in that?

I agree with you somewhat; it's the subsequent communications that show the seller's level of douchiosity.

Secondly (not directed towards you.. but definitely to other people I know in RL!), if you're looking for *MINT* specific items, DO NOT buy from ebay. That's just f-ing insane. *MINT* on ebay is subjective. Period. Anyone who'd expect a *MINT* item without looking at the specific item in person is just setting themselves up for disappointment. I've heard repeated complaints from the same people in RL who just don't learn. /rant off

I'd say that the definition of 'mint' is close to universal, though I've opened many new games that some wouldn't consider mint (due to half moon dents from the manual retainers and circular rub marks from the disc retention post).  The more variably defined term is 'complete', as too many sellers are honestly unaware of what all was originally included; I seldom trust the term unless their are good pics or everything is listed separately.

Did you ever notice that he failed to say he would file an insurance claim at any point in time? He got insurance on it. If it was broken in transit (which it wasn't) then he would have been able to easily file on it. He would have obviously lost anyway, after the postal service would have seen his packing job.

Your initial message to the seller stated that the packaging wasn't damaged in any way, so why would he offer to file a claim?

[quoth09]

Did you ever notice that he failed to say he would file an insurance claim at any point in time?

And what business is that of yours? The insurance covers the shipper and is for the shipper, not the buyer (although this should really be the otherway 'round). Do you know for a fact that he/she wasn't going to file a claim?

Actually, it's a LOT of my business. It's my business because I PAID FOR IT. Actually, according to both eBay, Paypal and a LOT of sellers, it is more for the buyer than the seller. Considering the fact that he didn't even say anything about it, even at the end, no I don't think they would have at all. They knew it wasn't due to their packing job, so he wouldn't have been able to pull that stunt, and he knew it - if he didn't, he would have learned real quick.

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He would have obviously lost anyway, after the postal service would have seen his packing job.

Irrelevant. You're not the qualified person at the post office making the call. Nor is it relevant to your argument.

Irrelevant to what? The fact that he charged me $30 on shipping, when he didn't pack it like he should have? Do you think I am new to packing? I have been selling stuff on eBay and elsewhere for almost a decade now. I have had to file a few claims, and had other people file them as well. I know what the post office looks for. Same goes with FedEx. If you don't have your item packed correctly, it does not matter how much insurance you purchase; they reject your claim.

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You trusted him enough to receive your $30, didn't you? If he's such the jerk and untrustworthy person, then why did he give you the $30?

Yeah...and if he hadn't I would have been filing a Paypal claim. Plain and simple. He corrected the problem; just about anyone can correct problems, and make right on most situations.

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It's funny, you think you're in the 100% right and he's in the wrong. Yet you don't know anything about this person and make lots of assumptions, though.

I think the only assumptions I made are ones that were well founded by myself and other members here and given the circumstances of the whole situation, my leniency and everything else I was looking past, and then I'm the one getting shafted here on the condition? Why don't you open up your own bank or credit card company with those same ethics...you won't be in business long.

You know what I know for fact though? He put this up on eBay, sold it as MINT and COMPLETE, and it wasn't. End of story. Let me sell you something and say it's MINT and COMPLETE, and then send you something like what I got; your attitude would change big time. Oh wait, I don't do stuff like that by lying about the condition of items, so you can stop thinking about it now.

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There are a lot of members and people in general that get/got burnt from ebay. Your recent transaction was not one of them.

That's right, I didn't; because I don't sit down and be passive about situations when I purchase items, and let it slide that I got less than what was described. Kinda funny that you keep on forgetting that. Once I receive an item in the mail in 'not the condition stated' - I have ever right at that point to make sure I am happy and that I am getting what I paid for. This includes filing with Paypal or attempting to make a deal with them to get the item repaired. Anyone that disagrees, well they can just go deal with Red Frog, because it is just the same as taking a gamble with them if I don't do something about it.

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No,I simply think your logic is flawed and you are missing our point,as your stating that the scammer/liar/problematic feedback seller is the trust worthy member on ebay to be relied upon for a full refund after he gets the goods back,and the buyer with 100 percent feedback is the possible scammer out to make  a fast buck and not just actually expect to be able to resolve any kind of issues.....Seriously Mal,are you high tonite???

Haha, a 97% is a dead give away on a persons credibility? News flash Mike: there are people in this world that are jerks, anal retentive drama queens, pissants, and what not that allowed to leave whatever feed back they want. People are quick to jump to conclusions and make quickdraw assumptions, because you know - it's there god given right. Every argument/conflict has two sides, the truth lays somewhere in between. I take it you've never been ripped off by someone who's has 100% feedback? Ignorance is bliss.

Actually, you know what, I have been ATTEMPTED to be ripped off by someone with 100% feedback. It's all the same. What you are saying is that you should basically just ignore their feedback %...I think not. If someone has low feedback percentage, or several negatives, obviously the percentage of you getting ripped off or not getting your item in the same condition as stated (the 2 go hand in hand), reflects that. If you don't see the correlation there, then your logic is definitely flawed.

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To no one specific: I'm not arguing for the seller. I'm arguing that the sellers point of view, opinion, and experience isn't projected here or unknown or represented in any way here. Yet it's already determined the guy is scum because tried to offer a refund at the first email/complaint and that his promise of a refund was an obvious attempt to get back those goods without refunding the buyer. Eventually he gave the buyer the partial refund he wanted. Pfft.. that f*cker.

I think his 'point of view, opinion, and experience' was VERY WELL represented here...
BY HIS EMAILS. I didn't modify them, or stuff words in his mouth. Just like I never kept anyone from out bidding me.

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Did you ever notice that he failed to say he would file an insurance claim at any point in time? He got insurance on it. If it was broken in transit (which it wasn't) then he would have been able to easily file on it. He would have obviously lost anyway, after the postal service would have seen his packing job.

Your initial message to the seller stated that the packaging wasn't damaged in any way, so why would he offer to file a claim?

Good point, but the thing is anyone that knows an item was working before they sent it off, would know to file if they knew it was not from a result of their packing or how the item was before hand.

My initial thought if someone said something I sold was not 100% working, would be to ask about the box or packaging I shipped the item in. If the packaging was not damaged, I would then look at what type of item it was. If it was me, and I shipped this as actually being in the condition it was stated as, and the laser showed up not working after, I would be damn sure filing a claim.

To put it bluntly here: Lasers don't die partially and act like they have been run for several hundred hours due to poor package handling at the post office.