EGM #18 reader-letter + ed reply + pics of *supposed* SuperGrafx Strider

[handygrafx]

I thought I'd get this properly scanned since the digital camera picture I took a year or more ago was incomplete (didn't capture the entire letter) and had some bad glare from light.






For those not familar with this legend, the pictures of Strider are almost certainly not from the supposed SuperGrafx version, but most likely from either the Arcade original or the nearly pixel-for-pixel Sharp X68000 computer version.


That said, there are at least 3 other Japanese PC-Engine magazine articles with a VERY curious version of Strider that is unlike the Arcade, X68000 or any other known version, and is believed to be from an E-prom  prototype/alpha/beta/whatever   of the supposedly real SuperGrafx version, which most of you have already seen.

[handygrafx]

We have to thank Chris Covell and others for the following:


Arcade Left  -  SuperGrafx Right ( maybe SuperGrafx !?)



The PC-Engine magazine articles:








Some of these screens are of the arcade.  However the screens with the Falchion energy sword slashes are not of the arcade, are believed to be or suspected to be of a SuperGrafx version.


Thanks again to Chris for the following translations of those 3 articles:

[From Sept. 90 issue]

"Strider Hiryu"
Daimakaimura was proof of the graphical merits [of the SGX]. Without a doubt, there is nothing left but this (Strider.)

Sale day tentative
Price tentative
Action
8M (only for SG)

Surprising action
Lost World (Forgotten Worlds), Daimakaimura, etc. are high-definition (distinguished?) games by Capcom in the field of action games; they furthered development with this masterpiece [?]. The motion of the hero was frightfully above that of similar action games up till then. The PC Engine version will make an appearance only for SG, and the number of animations of action should be able to be converted satisfactorily. However, I hope that so many animations are preserved without bogging down the speed of the game.

^ Hiryu's motion is the highest selling point of this game. [?]
<- Such diverse action as can be seen in this slope [of the mountain].

The backgrounds cannot be beat, either.
In this game, the beauty of the backgrounds adds charm to the flow of the animation. The exotic backgrounds have enthusiastic fans even now. If it appears on SG, it is possible to carry out the similar transplant of such beautiful backgrounds by taking advantage of the characteristics of BG2 -- the second scrolling layer. However, screens of such high quality surely consume a lot of game memory.

-> He fights under such backgrounds.
-> He can reach the tops of towers...
<- And do battle on these towers. This is such diverse action where the hero grabs, climbs, flies, bounds, and flips.

*The screens on this page are from the Arcade version.


[From Jan. 91 issue]

Are SG games being withdrawn?

"Strider Hiryu", which was announced as exclusive software simultaneously with the announcement of the SuperGrafx, has been changed into a PC-Engine/SG bi-compatible format. This is probably good news for PC-Engine users, but something to stop the hearts of SGX users. With this announcement, the lineup of games developed for the SGX by NEC Avenue has been ended. ['nakunaru' can mean 'lost' or 'died/dead']
But of course, the SuperGrafx will still be supported in a dual-format game, maintaining high-quality play. Incidentally, "Strider Hiryu" is one of the few HuCard games scheduled to have 8 Megabits.

*The screenshot on this page is from the Arcade version of "Strider Hiryu". It has become bi-compatible.

[From Sept. 91 issue]

PC-Engine/SG bi-compatible format (tentative)

"Strider Hiryu" has many fans by virtue of its stylish action and tempo. The charm of this game is in the fine motion of the hero Hiryu. The PC-Engine version will be a full conversion from the arcades, although the characters [have] become somewhat smaller. Moreover, on the SG, flickering decreases compared with the PC-Engine. The demonstration scenes after a stage is cleared are also due to be reproduced as-is. Since development is liable to be delayed, the release will probably be pushed to next year.
Development status is at 20%.

^ Hiryu faces a gorilla robot. [He's not as tough as he looks!] or [He's no pushover!] (Dictionaries are no help.)
^ Stylish action with Hiryu atop various mechanisms. That is the charm of this game.

Chris's thoughts:

Here is what I make of it all:
Games magazines can't be trusted to keep their information straight, so let's take it all with a grain of salt.

They say the screenshots are from the arcade version, but all the shots (except the shot in the Sept. 91 pic with Mecha-Pon) are demonstrably NOT from the arcade. (Any version that I've seen, anyway.)

Strider was announced at the same time as the SGX's announcement in 1989. At any rate, NEC Avenue had a license for it and Daimakaimura, and began some sort of development on both titles. NEC Avenue released some pictures of Strider around Sept. 1990. I don't think the magazines saw it in action because the writer of the Sept. 1990 article was speculating on how feasible the conversion would be, and wrote his hopes for smooth, fast animation.

In January 1991, the shocking announcement is made that Strider will be a PCE/SG bi-compatible game, like Darius Plus was. This obviously shows NEC Ave's lack of confidence in the SGX, and thus the SGX-only version is killed off.

Then in Sept. 1991, Strider still stands at just 20% completed. The article writer describes how Strider will play differently when on a regular PC-Engine or on a SuperGrafx. This could be speculation (drawing from experience with Darius Plus), a first-hand witness, or (more likely?) quoting from NEC Avenue's press releases.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I love how EGM claims they got to try out the SGX version

[Turbo D]

I think that a proto exists/existed but nec dropped production. I hope that some day the proto will get dumped, but I HIGHLY doubt that due to the way Japanese collectors are with there protos. I'm not saying I blame them though.

[awack]

All of the pictures from the mags seem to be from the same game as you can tell from the gradient of the life bar and the missing time, the question is then, what version of the game are they from? 

[Black Tiger]

It looks like EGM just cut out the PC Engine mag's screenshots and reposted them as their own.

[SignOfZeta]

This topic comes up a lot, but one thing that isn't as often as discussed is why Strider would have benefited from being a SGX game in the first place. The scrolling?

[handygrafx]

You mean why Strider would've benefited from being on SGX as opposed to being on  Turbo Duo /PCE SCD/ACD ?

Because unlike the core PCE which powers everything, even the ACD, the SGX has two hardware bg layers which is enough to do at least 2 layers of scrolling like most MD/Gen games (MD/Gen Strider)   or even simulate 3 or more layers of scrolling (many Genesis games do this even tho Gen only has 2 layers).  The Sharp X68000 has just 2 bg layers, yet, it does the 3 bg layers in arcade Strider just fine.

Beyond bg layers, there is SGX's    double the sprite handling of PCE.   128 vs 64.   SGX can manipulate sprites more than PCE.     SGX has double the VRAM and 4x the main system work RAM that PCE had.    The SGX is not really all that much more powerful than PCE, its just like a PCE with double the graphics capabilities and 4x the main RAM, which is still significant.

There's no way SGX could've done Strider as well as X68000, but much better than what was put on ACD.

[SignOfZeta]

So...background handling then, basically? I don't think the sprite needs of Strider would have hit the PCE too hard judging from all the shit flying around on various games in the PCE's shooter library, not to mention the fighting games.

A SGX cost twice what a PCE cost at this time, so I can see why they tanked it. Would people drop 20,000+ more yen just to get an extra layer of paralax? Nah.

So looking at the ACD version of Strider, which many people seem to hate, what parts of it would have been better with a SGX?

How does the SGX compare to Strider's arcade PCB, the CPS?

[Sinistron]

A SGX cost twice what a PCE cost at this time, so I can see why they tanked it. Would people drop 20,000+ more yen just to get an extra layer of paralax? Nah.

Still though- only five and a half games- man they could have thrown a little more support into the system than that.

So looking at the ACD version of Strider, which many people seem to hate, what parts of it would have been better with a SGX?

There would have been a lot less flicker and of course there would have been parallex.  Those are the two only things as far as I can see that made the acd strider a failure of sorts.  I personally like it- and feel that the bonus board, cutscenes, more frames of animation than the genesis version (contrary to what I've read), less dark colors and cd music make up for it- but yeah I must admit it feels incomplete.

I agree with you as far as the shooters are concerned- especially though with the ACD.  Sapphire has some flicker- but not nearly as much as the ACD Strider which has a lot less going on on screen than Sapphire.    Same with the parallex issue of course- though I feel the flicker is ACD Strider's biggest problem.  Dude totally vanishes from the screen at parts where there aren't really many enemies on screen.

[Bonknuts]

So looking at the ACD version of Strider, which many people seem to hate, what parts of it would have been better with a SGX?

How does the SGX compare to Strider's arcade PCB, the CPS?

 If it was SGX ACD, then the game could have been drawn in the arcade res like Forgotten Worlds, but without the addition flicker that mode brings with it. You could in theory have almost 100% port graphic wise minus some shades for the SGX ACD too.

[awack]

I agree that the Super grafx Strider would or should have been better than what ended up on the ACD, but, strider is the poster child for bad ports/bad programing for the Pc engine, that has more to do with what should have been, more than anything else.

I believe that a better produced ACD strider would have been better than a 8 meg Super grafx Strider, except for the single bg layer, for example, the super nintendo has 16x the main ram as pc engine, double the sprites, equal in video ram and larger sprites..64x64 vs 32x64, yet the Neo-Geo ports ended up being much better on the Pc engine.

So looking at the ACD version of Strider, which many people seem to hate, what parts of it would have been better with a SGX?

The boss fight at the end of the jungle area would have looked better, in the ACD Strider the background turns to a solid color when the boss appears on screen, with the Super grafx, one of the background layers could have been used for that boss.

[handygrafx]

How does the SGX compare to Strider's arcade PCB, the CPS?

CPS is, at least on paper, very significantly more powerful than SGX.

Some of the basics spec differences are:

CPS  vs SGX
sprites: 256 vs 128
color pallete: 65,536 vs 512
max colors displayable at once:  2048 vs 482
background layers:  3 vs 2
main RAM  (at least 64k if not more)   vs 32K
VRAM   ? (probably alot)  vs 128K
CPU  16-bit 68000 @ 10 MHz  vs  8-bit HuC6280A @ 7.16 MHz   (not directly comparable, different architectures)

Arcade Strider ROM: around 43 megabits  - SGX Strider ROM, reportedly  8 to 10 megabits.

Yet, the spec comparison does not tell the whole story because the PCE family, that includes the SGX, is much more efficient than its specs might lead one to believe.


Now also of course, Strider on CPS is not pushing the arcade hardware to even close to its limit,  so that means a SGX Strider could've been reasonably close to the arcade, closer than MD/Gen.   

Yet, beyond that, if NEC or any good developer programmed a totally new Strider game for SGX, some aspecs could've been better than the arcade in some ways, even though technically the SGX cannot match CPS1.  It's kinda difficult  to really explain what I mean well.

I'll try to give an example,  Sega's Fantasy Zone arcade game: It runs on the System 16 board which is significantly more powerful than the Mega-Drive /Genesis.   The MD/Gen never got a direct translation of the original game, so we cannot see how close to the arcade FZ could've been on MD/Gen.   However, Sunsoft made a totally new, made-just-for-MD  Super Fantasy Zone.  In some ways it surpasses the original arcade. There are more layers of parallax scrolling.  Arcade FZ has 2 layers.  (couldn't find one of arcade but X68K is identical)   MD SFZ has at least 3 layers.        Also, the number of *hardware* background layers does not mean a system can only have that same number of layers in a game.  MD/Gen has just 2 hardware layers but many games display 4 or more layers.  The standard PC-Engine has just 1 layer, but games like PCE Dead Moon and PCE SCD  Spriggian Mark II have many layers. 

In that sense, a SGX Strider could have potentially even surpassed the arcade original. Even though SGX hardware is, absolutely, no match for CPS.    Software can make hardware do things that you wouldn't believe going by just hardware specs.   However, hardware specs are most certainly NOT irrelivant.  Ghouls 'n Ghosts on SGX, while a great conversion, is still a big step down in graphics, and that's mainly because of the difference in hardware specs as well as ROM space.    I hope that all makes sense.

[Black Tiger]

The standard PC-Engine has just 1 layer, but games like PCE Dead Moon and PCE SCD  Spriggian Mark II have many layers. 

In that sense, a SGX Strider could have potentially even surpassed the arcade original. Even though SGX hardware is, absolutely, no match for CPS.    Software can make hardware do things that you wouldn't believe going by just hardware specs.   However, hardware specs are most certainly NOT irrelivant.  Ghouls 'n Ghosts on SGX, while a great conversion, is still a big step down in graphics, and that's mainly because of the difference in hardware specs as well as ROM space.    I hope that all makes sense.

I haven't seen all of Spriggan Mark II, but Dead Moon only has a single layer bg effect. Games like Lords of Thunder and Drac X have some nice multi-layered bg effects. Hardware layers are still only one method of creating an effect, just like hardware scaling vs animation.

The PC Engine's palette translates the CPS palette very well and the 336 x 224 works great in ports like Forgotten Worlds. The PCE could've done a port with near-perfect visuals and most of the layered bg effects either intact or substituted. I don't see how the SuperGrafx couldn't have produced something most people would consider more or less perfect.

[handygrafx]

The standard PC-Engine has just 1 layer, but games like PCE Dead Moon and PCE SCD  Spriggian Mark II have many layers. 

In that sense, a SGX Strider could have potentially even surpassed the arcade original. Even though SGX hardware is, absolutely, no match for CPS.    Software can make hardware do things that you wouldn't believe going by just hardware specs.   However, hardware specs are most certainly NOT irrelivant.  Ghouls 'n Ghosts on SGX, while a great conversion, is still a big step down in graphics, and that's mainly because of the difference in hardware specs as well as ROM space.    I hope that all makes sense.

I haven't seen all of Spriggan Mark II, but Dead Moon only has a single layer bg effect. Games like Lords of Thunder and Drac X have some nice multi-layered bg effects. Hardware layers are still only one method of creating an effect, just like hardware scaling vs animation.

The PC Engine's palette translates the CPS palette very well and the 336 x 224 works great in ports like Forgotten Worlds. The PCE could've done a port with near-perfect visuals and most of the layered bg effects either intact or substituted. I don't see how the SuperGrafx couldn't have produced something most people would consider more or less perfect.

you forget how many sprites are being pushed around the screen in FW arcade, especially the later levels.   CPS1's ability to move upto 256 sprites looks like its being pushed.   The SGX would be hard pressed to match that, much less the 1/2 as powerful PCE that powers the Super CD version.   There's a noticable drop in colors between arcade and SCD FW.   Of course, if the SGX had powered the core of the SCD, a really nice translation of FW could've been made, beyond what was done in the SCD version.   I know you regard the SCD version highly, and I think its great given the hardware it ran on.