Why has the world forgotten Military Madness/Nectaris?

[handygrafx]

I prefer the hex-based movements of Military Madness, over the grid-based movements of Advance Wars.

What seperates Military Madness from most other hex-based games, is the unit support for defense & offense and ZOC  (zone-of-control).  I love those mechanics, and they're what helps to make MM so damn ADDICTIVE and FUN.

R-Type Tactics, while hex-based, does not have those other features of the Nectaris/MM series.

[esteban]

I guess you could say that I like the Nectaris / Military Madness games.

handygrafx, I used to have extra copies of the PlayStation game but I gave them away years ago. I'd send you one now if I still had one.

One thing that I've wanted to do for a long time was to get the music from the PlayStation version and make them available for fellow fans. I remember asking folks about this and they explained that ripping tunes from PSX games was not the easiest thing to do (this was many moons ago, maybe it is easier now?).

I would love to hear from folks who have the Gameboy version of Nectaris.... two carts that I've had did not save because the batteries were bad. This simply prevents you from saving mid-stage, forcing you to leave your gameboy on when (if!) you take a break from some of the epic, long stages.

Unfortunately, the Gameboy version doesn't uses hexes... blah, blah, blah, I could go on for ages.

IIRC: I think my first posts here and magicengine were about Neo Nectaris. Ha!

[hoobs88]

I also picked up "Panzer Tactics" for the DS which is hex based. But way too confusing to play.

[Lord Thag]

A friend of mine just called and informed me he found a copy of the PS1 Nectaris. I love Fridays 

I really like the ZOC/Support options of the MM games. Rtype Command does not have that, but it has several other features that make up for it (multiple attacks per unit, forces etc). I'm really enjoying both.

Military Madness is still my favorite. It's quick, challenging, and has a ton of depth. I want a new one!

[spenoza]

I really think the best thing about Military Madness is that there was depth but it didn't overdo it. I never had so much to keep track of, so much going on that I was completely overwhelmed just managing my own forces. I was frequently overwhelmed by the enemy because I was a dumbass in how I approached a mission, but never because I couldn't get a handle on my own forces.

It was nice to have to think without having to hold way too much information in my head. That balance can be really hard for these tactical games to strike, and MM did it fairly well.

[handygrafx]

A friend of mine just called and informed me he found a copy of the PS1 Nectaris. I love Fridays 

Congrats on securing a copy of PS1 Nectaris: Military Madness.

I really like the ZOC/Support options of the MM games. Rtype Command does not have that, but it has several other features that make up for it (multiple attacks per unit, forces etc). I'm really enjoying both.

I could not agree more, you're absolutely right      People that understand these games know how good these features are.  I mean ZOC/support options in the Nectaris games, as well as the new offensive/defensive moves in RType Command (which I am just getting used too now).

Military Madness is still my favorite. It's quick, challenging, and has a ton of depth. I want a new one!

Indeed.   The original Military Madness is still my favorite, even above Neo Nectaris, PS1 Nectaris, the entire Nintendo Wars series which includes the Advance Wars series,    Panzer General series and RType Command.

The only strategy game I enjoy more than Military Madness is Herzog Zwei on Genesis, but that's a completely different type of strategy game.


BTW your review of RTC was very exellent, really appreciate it 

[handygrafx]

handygrafx, I used to have extra copies of the PlayStation game but I gave them away years ago. I'd send you one now if I still had one.

Thanks esteban, I appreciate the thought.  I'll have to wait for a copy to show up on ebay.   That said, I am REALLY REALLY glad I did not sell my copy of Neo Nectaris.   

[handygrafx]

I really think the best thing about Military Madness is that there was depth but it didn't overdo it. I never had so much to keep track of, so much going on that I was completely overwhelmed just managing my own forces. I was frequently overwhelmed by the enemy because I was a dumbass in how I approached a mission, but never because I couldn't get a handle on my own forces.

It was nice to have to think without having to hold way too much information in my head. That balance can be really hard for these tactical games to strike, and MM did it fairly well.

I agree. Military Madness did it very well.  It's such a great game because it is SIMPLE,  FAST,  the graphics and animation are nice, very decent for a game like this. Whereas, other, newer strategy games on more powerful systems, often look worse than the Hudson's 1989 masterpiece on the PCE/TG16.    The gameplay mechanics are simple, solid, addictive, fun.   Like you said, you're not overwhelmed with information. You can focus at the battle at hand.   I really did not truly love Advance Wars (AW, AW2, AW:DS) that much. It's a good series, but couldn't get into it as much because of the lack of support/ZOC, hex-grid, and although AW series is fairly simple, its not as completely simple as the Nectaris series.


I sure do hope Hudson releases a new game or games in the series.  The Nintendo DS was practically created for a modern Nectaris/Military Madness game.

[Hobo Xiphas]

i have not forgotten

I prefer the hex-based movements of Military Madness, over the grid-based movements of Advance Wars.

hell yae

What seperates Military Madness from most other hex-based games, is the unit support for defense & offense and ZOC  (zone-of-control).  I love those mechanics, and they're what helps to make MM so damn ADDICTIVE and FUN.

hell no

I really think the best thing about Military Madness is that there was depth but it didn't overdo it.

HELL NO

I agree. Military Madness did it very well.  It's such a great game because it is SIMPLE,  FAST,  the graphics and animation are nice, very decent for a game like this. Whereas, other, newer strategy games on more powerful systems, often look worse than the Hudson's 1989 masterpiece on the PCE/TG16.    The gameplay mechanics are simple, solid, addictive, fun.   Like you said, you're not overwhelmed with information. You can focus at the battle at hand.   I really did not truly love Advance Wars (AW, AW2, AW:DS) that much. It's a good series, but couldn't get into it as much because of the lack of support/ZOC, hex-grid, and although AW series is fairly simple, its not as completely simple as the Nectaris series.

OH HELL NAW

you guys may remember but you remember wrong about most things

[Black Tiger]

Recently I've been thinking that its Turbo fans who have forgotten MM/Nectaris. The games are rarely discussed and it seems most people haven't bothered to try Neo Nectaris.

I tried the Gameboy Nectaris, but was really turned off by the map grid and non-visuals. A few of the music tracks turned out very well, while the rest didn't.

Anyone interested in Nectaris for Playstation should pick up the affordable japanese version.

[Hobo Xiphas]

I'll admit that Military Madness is pretty fun but to compare it to the modern games and say that it is MUCH BETTER is pretty silly.

Military Madness is pretty primitive in mechanics, you can have simple without being bare bones.

[esteban]

I'll admit that Military Madness is pretty fun but to compare it to the modern games and say that it is MUCH BETTER is pretty silly.

Military Madness is pretty primitive in mechanics, you can have simple without being bare bones.

  I'm actually going to go off on a rant, but please do not take offense to it, because, honestly, it is not directed at you. I just share handygrafx's critique of many "strategy games" and wanted to share it here.

To think that modern games are much better than older ones is pretty silly. Sure, old crusty strategy titles could benefit from the refinements and improved "flow of the game" that we see today, but where's the beef?

For example, the Advance Wars series, and I've played them all, is pretty lame compared to Nectaris / MM, let alone Neo Nectaris (Neo has many subtle refinements). Strip away the fluff of AW (and many contemporary games) and, as handygrafx pointed out, the PUZZLE SOLVING element is severely lacking.

I know lots of folks will get pissed at this, but too many modern games have the strategy of RISK (which is a great board game) + resource-management and/or real-time to try to flesh them out and make them appear meaty. I ask you, where is the beef?

Advance Wars = RISK. Nectaris / MM transcends RISK.

Nectaris is, essentially, a closed system with few opportunities to magically re-plenish (re-spawn) your troops outside of factories. There are stricter limitations on your ability to replenish your troops, which is really nice. Personally, I think this adds a lot of drama and fun to the game... when you lose an entire unit, you actually FEEL the loss, because that unit will never come back. If you're lucky, though, at least one troop from a unit might survive--this survivor has the potential to be replenished in a factory, but usually you have to devise a defensive strategy to ensure that this happens (the AI loves to pick off weak, fleeing troops).

In the more difficult later stages, EVERY GODDAM UNIT is treasured. Sure, you'll have to sacrifice some of them, but when you do it is deliberate and they truly feel like a SACRIFICE.

I love games that force you to conserve and appreciate limited resources. It creates a gritty, desperate atmosphere that forces you to be frugal.  This is the type of "resource management" that appeals to me. This isn't RISK, or countless RTS titles, where you have an "endless" supply of troops. I don't care if you are required to mine for gold... cranking troops out of the factory like it was the Super-Industrial-Revolution makes them disposable. These troops are mass-produced widgets. Cannon fodder.

I don't think battles are more epic simply because the number of troops involved (and the subsequent death toll) is high.

You get the idea.

I know most folks won't agree with me, but that's OK. I have peculiar tastes at times.

It's fun to rant

[spenoza]

Well, MM/Nectaris is, appropriately, a tactics game, not a strategy game. You manage finite resources in a set of closed scenarios. Within those scenarios, the mechanics of combat, ZOC/support, terrain, experience, are all complex elements. The layout of the scenario creates added complexity. But because there are usually only so many units and unit types on the map, and no way to produce additional resources, simplicity is fostered.

[Lord Thag]

I know most folks won't agree with me, but that's OK. I have peculiar tastes at times.

It's fun to rant

I completely agree with you! That's the whole reason I posted this thread. Saying newer games are automatically better is just silly. Sure, many of them are, but being new does not automatically equate to being better. The reason, for the most part, is that video games are far more mainstream now. As such, they tend to cater to the lowest common denominator, and be, on the whole, generally easier than some of the older titles. Sure, there are plenty of fantastic new titles out there, but there are also a lot of games that are more de-evolutions of older games.

MM/Nectaris is an example of a game that's vastly superior to it's modern counterparts. Esteban hit it on the head. The finely tuned map layouts, the excellent ZOC/support mechanics, and the irreplacability of your units makes MM far superior to it's modern knockoffs like Advance Wars and Field Commander. MM also never seems to fall into the trap that AW does by forcing you to beat scenario only one way.

All of that makes it a fantastic game, and much better than the more modern titles, even in it lacks the visual and audio polish of the newer titles.

[guyjin]

Recently I've been thinking that its Turbo fans who have forgotten MM/Nectaris.

Well, a lot of turbo fans are shmup fiends, so a slow paced game like Nectaris may not be their cup of tea.