What do you drive…

[Desh]

1986 Pontiac Fiero. 2.5L 4-cylinder, 5-speed manual. I had to ship a guitar and this was the only way I could get the box to fit.

Nice, clean looking Fiero.  Sadly, original ones are getting harder to find since a lot of Fieros were hacked up for Ferrari/Lambo replica kit cars

Is that the kind of story Fiero fans tell themselves?

The price of those gross kits combined with the installation bill exceeded the worth of any Fiero by 1992. Very very few people did this, and the Fiero sold many times however many of those body kits were made. I don't think any body kit manufacturer has sold anywhere near 163,000 kits before. I'll bet money on that actually.

The Fieros are all gone because they are old and nobody cares. Well, there is a guy in Sandford, Mi that has a few dozen rolling shells and one Diabo ver. Most things from that far back are gone, even the cool shit. Try to find a super clean '89 Civic Si. Just try. Seriously.

In the end, if you want a cheap MR supercar the Fiat X1/9 and Toyota MR2 (AW11) are a much better use of your restoration dollars, most people would agree, and that's why you see more Miatas than any of them.

I've always liked the last few model years of the Fiero.  If I ever got one though I'd have to quickly shove a supercharged 3800 or LS1 in the back.

[SignOfZeta]

The Fiero is a good car. A much better car than the ones it's based on. It's a shame that every time GM does something cool it ends up being a dead-end evolutionarily speaking. The Corvair, the Fiero, Cosworth Vega, Saturn, and the "kappa twins" roadsters...all were pretty great. The rental sedans still flow like water from GM.

The issue with the Fiero (and the kappa roadsters, front engine but still too big) is that it's just too big to ever seriously take advantage of being MR in the first place so the whole exercise is kinda pointless. Also those big dumb engines are for cruising not for racing. The 4AGE in the MR2 may have less power, but when you're driving the car it feels like more because it actually likes reving. I'm from Midland Mi, (in Ann Arbor now) SKACK DAB in the middle of GM country, and yet when I go to Waterford hills or an autocross I rarely see Fieros. I see much more rare vehicles and like Miata 20 nerds with some staple econoboxes thrown in. Considering many local events take place on Belle Isle, a place where GM's corporate headquarters is the largest thing in the background...you'd think you'd see more of them considering its one of the coolest things they've ever built. 

One year in DET Solo there was a kid with a shitty white Fiero that was also in my class, which was CSP at the time. He was pretty cool, but had a hard time keeping up with my 1.6 Miata. What is a car with an engine roughly twice the size of mine doing in the same class despite the theoretical advantage of MR? Well, that's what happens when your car is slow and totally non-competitive, you keep moving it down classes until it occasionally wins.

One nice thing I'll say about it, the marker renderings for the final refresh made it look like it was going to be really slick. It's a shame they canned it in development.

[crazydean]

The Fiero was originally designed to be a true sports car. The problem was that it turned out to be much cheaper than the Corvette with similar power capabilities which is why it ended up so under-powered when it came to produciton. As for why it was canned, I have no idea. The sales were good. It outsold the Toyota MR2, its main competitor, which outlived it by more than a decade.

[SignOfZeta]

Power was never it's problem. It would have helped to have more! But in all seriousness it had quite competetive power for its day and it's class. It's always that way with GM. It's problem is that when you drive it it feels like a Buick but more claustrophobic. Driving an MR2 or Miata feels a million times better so with those two on the market at the same time GM was f*cked. I don't know why exactly they canned it (nobody understands how this company makes it's decisions...) but I would assume that the bulk of the 166,000 were in the earliest years and by the end they were probably sweating out 10,000 making it a loss. There's no shame in being beaten by the Miata corporately or on the track because it's happened to everyone. Every single sportscar ever made was less of a success than the Miata. They've even manage to make four generations in a row and not once f*ck the whole thing up (try that, Ford). It's like magic, that thing. It restarted sports cars and has outsold everything in the segment that it helped revive. So GM getting out then could be almost considered precognitive. They just bailed before everyone else did.

Also, it's also possible that they killed it because it was cutting into Vette sales and that's a higher margin car with more history. I would argue that the Fiero is a better car than the C4 Vette so maybe it was like how Porsche supposedly killed the 944 because it was just as fast as the 911s they were trying to move.

[Desh]

The Fiero is a good car. A much better car than the ones it's based on. It's a shame that every time GM does something cool it ends up being a dead-end evolutionarily speaking. The Corvair, the Fiero, Cosworth Vega, Saturn, and the "kappa twins" roadsters...all were pretty great. The rental sedans still flow like water from GM.

The issue with the Fiero (and the kappa roadsters, front engine but still too big) is that it's just too big to ever seriously take advantage of being MR in the first place so the whole exercise is kinda pointless. Also those big dumb engines are for cruising not for racing. The 4AGE in the MR2 may have less power, but when you're driving the car it feels like more because it actually likes reving. I'm from Midland Mi, (in Ann Arbor now) SKACK DAB in the middle of GM country, and yet when I go to Waterford hills or an autocross I rarely see Fieros. I see much more rare vehicles and like Miata 20 nerds with some staple econoboxes thrown in. Considering many local events take place on Belle Isle, a place where GM's corporate headquarters is the largest thing in the background...you'd think you'd see more of them considering its one of the coolest things they've ever built. 

One year in DET Solo there was a kid with a shitty white Fiero that was also in my class, which was CSP at the time. He was pretty cool, but had a hard time keeping up with my 1.6 Miata. What is a car with an engine roughly twice the size of mine doing in the same class despite the theoretical advantage of MR? Well, that's what happens when your car is slow and totally non-competitive, you keep moving it down classes until it occasionally wins.

One nice thing I'll say about it, the marker renderings for the final refresh made it look like it was going to be really slick. It's a shame they canned it in development.

Comparing a Miata to Fiero is simply apples to oranges.  Even a first year Miata is light years ahead of what the Fiero was.  As far as a Fiero being in a lower class in auto-x it's all about performance.  Fiero is double A-arm up front (which would give you VERY little camber adjustment out of the box) and the same basic geometry in the rear as an x-car.  I haven't seen too many Chevette race cars in my day.  Also, 2.5 gives you around 90 H.P. and the heavier 2.8 V6 gives you a whopping 140.  If you have a 2 pedal car it's a crappily geared 3-speed.  Fiero weighs about 2600-2700 lbs compared to a first gen Miata at what 2100 lbs?  Of course it was in your same class, maybe should have been lower.

A supercharged 3800 would only add about 100-150 lbs to a 2.8 V6 equipped Fiero while adding 100 H.P. in stock form.  LS1 would be chosen expressly for wow factor.

While I find autocross enjoyable and have run a few events myself, I prefer a bit more power at the sacrifice of a little handling.  I like a little bit more tire smoke and donut hooning in my "fun" car.  There's nothing like correcting a bit of understeer with some added throttle.

[SignOfZeta]

This was CSP. Street Prepaired opens up a lot of possibilities so things that seemed level at the dealership get out of balance on the track. In SP the intake and exhaust are more or less free, meaning full race header, aftermarket fuel injection, shocks and springs are free, you can do what you need to get camber adjustment, so is tire and wheel size, cams. Power gains would be extremely easy. Having seen many cars Prepaired to this level it isn't hard to imagine making a pretty wicked Fiero.

The real question is, and I'm not talking about racing here: are the big engine and 400lbs of useless dead weight the result of the car being aimed at a different segment or of it just being...bad?

In the end, the Fiero was more powerful than most Miatas sold. They only have 165 HP or something like that now with the new car. I don't think most people in the market for a throwaway priced retirement car give a shit about power.

Btw, I just did some more reading and I was wrong. The Fiero sold 370,000! So that means it outsold the Mk1 Miata! But still got canned because...I don't know. Maybe they just wanted to shut the plant, that does happen sometimes. 

As for autocross, I don't do it anymore. I got tired of waking up at 5:30 am on a Saturday to spend three minutes on the track and 9 hours baking in the sun. I'm not very competitive by nature so track days are fine with me. That way you get two hours on the track and you don't have to do jack. I also really suck at autocross and I think I always will. It's not that I can't drive, I do fine on a road course, is that autocross really is its own animal. I went into it thinking that it's simply low level motorsport, and it is, just above drag racing in its accessibility, but it has its own weird technical side due to the hyper tight courses and intense competition. You have to simply manhandle the shit out of your steering wheel for one thing, which is the opposite what you do in most kinds of automobile racing. You'll walk the course and then do your timed laps without every having driven it. You need to memorize that shit instantly. It sucks! I suck at it anyway.

I must say I've had some good times in Solo and ridden in some wild fast cars. For people who need to know who's fastest it's one of the most competitive sports in the world. People who haven't seen high level Solo wouldn't believe how refined these cars and drivers are. They drive 10/10 ALL THE TIME because he run is only 58 seconds or whatever. To see a top level Cobra Mustang and a Rabbit both hit he same time on the index to .001" is something else.


Btw, the Chevette actually had a semi-decent career as a rally car in the early 80s, look it up. It being RWD and simple apparently gave it an advantage on paved courses.

[Necromancer]

It was killed because its sales tanked towards the end:

1984     136,840
1985     76,371
1986     83,974
1987     46,581
1988     26,402

And it only outsold the first gen Miata US sales.  For every Miata sold here, Mazda has sold two more elsewhere.

The difference in size between GM and Mazda is so great, comparing them directly is pointless.  Mazda has far lower goals and a lower threshold for counting a car as a success (and they arguably need the Miata as a halo car and proof of "zoom-zoom"), so it's no surprise that they soldier on with a relatively slow seller.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, that's the kind of sales arc I assumed took place. It happens with most cars, they sell the best the year they came out.

Btw, nearly giving the cars away may have helped sales. Less than $9000? Cheaper than a GTI. That would also explain why it got canned despite huge sales for a sports car: you can only make them for $9000 *if* it's the biggest goddamned hit in the history of sports cars. That's a stupid position to put yourself in and something the post-bankruptcy GM has slightly backed away from. That is to say that they no longer care about being #1 in sales if it can't even shield you from bankruptcy.

[Sparky]

Hey guys I am happy to announce I have a new addition. Retired the 2002 Saturn coupe with 540,000 kms, the engine was still running well, I just needed something with more creature comforts and more room for my ladiessssss 😎 (My kids that is)

2017 Mitsubishi Lancer (Black Edition)
It has lots of pep.

This is a big deal for me as I buy a car every 10 years or so yippeeee!

[Necromancer]

People still buy Mitsubishis?  Willingly?!?
















 

Seriously though, congrats on the new ride.  Those are actually nice lookin' lil things, unlike the fugly i-miev and eclipse posuv.

[esteban]

I thought Mitsubishi only made medical equipment these days?

[TelcoSurveyor]

Different car every week. Rental cars are awesome.

[turboswimbz]

Very Sexy Sparky. sorry to see the Saturn and all the carbon fibber gone away.

[Sparky]

Haha. Ya the fibber is still on her and like I said the engine and body is still good. I am storing it up north at my parents. Cannot let her go (( shrugs))

[TheClash603]

In Canada, are there no tinted window laws? Car looks very sharp though.

In Buffalo, they pull you over for basically any level of tint, or even for thinking about tint.