Hardest system to find complete games for?

[spenoza]

Michael, you don't have any proof of your version either, so don't go blasting his story for the same holes that exist in yours. Geepee16's story meshes better with what I know of the industry (and industry in general) and he certainly has strong industry connections. Didn't he write some stuff for Hudson? He's established himself as industry-connected. What's your connection, other than fandom?

I don't understand why your objections are so heated. Any time you don't like something someone says in these forums you start fuming like someone insulted your mother. Can't you disagree with someone calmly and rationally?

[SignOfZeta]

I am inclined to believe geepee16. There are a number of corporate and insurance reasons companies must destroy merchandise, and I doubt the TZD crew ever had enough investment capital to truly buy every piece of unsold inventory.

The absence of proof is not the proof of absence, obviously. You can believe his TZD story since it just materialized out of thin air in this very thread as far as I know, and there is no proof of of it being true one way or another.

That being said, the Sapphire "2nd run" is fake as hell and there is much evidence to prove that. It being an actual aluminum CD means nothing. I have many bootleg CD s (audio and game) and none of them are CD-Rs.

[nat]

George is the last guy that needs anyone to speak for him, but I feel I gotta chime in. George is a friend of mine, he's been on the scene a long time, probably actively even before me (just throwing that out there for those who are wondering "who" he is). He's done some work for Hudson over the years, even met and talked with Takahashi Meijin. Because of his time with Hudson and many years in Japan, he's had the opportunity to meet and speak with many people who have been involved in the PC Engine and Turbo in one regard or another. I haven't personally seen the photos he speaks of, but anyone with doubts can rest assured any information he brings to the table is legit. George may be a relatively new poster on these forums compared to some of us, but I've known the guy a few years now (long before he started posting here regularly), and he's always been a fascinating resource for obscure tidbits and factoids regarding our favorite console.

Whether or not you guys believe what he says is irrelevant though, really, since it already happened and arguing about it isn't going to change the reality of what went down. 

[SignOfZeta]

Cock. I keep forgetting who geepee16 actually is.

Never mind, I take it back.

The Sapphires are still fake though!

[vestcoat]

That Takahashi Meijin interview is pretty cool:

The PCE processor was based on the Z80 (same as the Sega Master System and Sega Genesis).

Maybe that's why the TG16 and SMS are my favorite systems!

[Turbo D]

That being said, the Sapphire "2nd run" is fake as hell and there is much evidence to prove that. It being an actual aluminum CD means nothing. I have many bootleg CD s (audio and game) and none of them are CD-Rs.

I'll second that! I believe that the bootlegger even admitted to the second run sapphires being fake!

[Black Tiger]

Black Tiger, I am talking US releases. And it's not true that any system with a "larger library" is going to be harder to find games for.

I was talking about U.S. releases and I said it's not true that any system with a "larger library" is going to be harder to find games for.

Also, Black Tiger: Space Fantasy Zone someone just made on CDrs. That's actually $150 and quite easy to find, looks just like a real TG game cept for the CDr bottom, but that's not even an official release.

I didn't think that a was necessary...

AS far as Sapphire goes, that second print run is real, it's not a CDr, just a second print run, so I'm not sure why anyone honestly thinks that is a bootleg. Do we consider SNES Majesco or Game Gear releases that have far worse box art and cart label stickers "bootlegs" as well? Really baffles me the logic on that one.

...but apparently it really was.

At which point would you consider the Sapphire bootlegs to not be legit? Obviously there is some point where you stop believing, since for some reason you think that the Space Fantasy Zone bootlegs made by the same person as the Sapphire bootlegs are not legit.

Every aspect of the Sapphire bootlegs is off (even the tear away strip). We even know where they were made and its not in Japan. I guess you've never taken a good look at them or heard all the evidence. You can find out how they differ here.

I'm not sure how anyone can honestly think that it is not a bootleg. The only 'evidence' that it is possibly anything but a bootleg has been a story from the person who somehow aquired the entire second print run and coincidentally decided to sell these prized collectibles at 10% of their value. The same person who just happened to come into possession of an equally near endless supply of equal quality Space Fantasy Zone copies. The same guy who now somehow has a bunch of misprints to sell.

You don't even need to even take a look at the item to already know that it's a bunch of b.s. But when you do, it turns out that its completely different from every commercially released PC Engine game.


The only reason I can think of that you might be trying to forward the notion that there may actually have been a second print run is if you're really the guy selling them. Especially with this quote-

That's actually $150 and quite easy to find, looks just like a real TG game cept for the CDr bottom, but that's not even an official release.

Since they've actually been selling for hundreds of dollars around the internet, only one special person has them that 'cheap' and everyone who knows they're cdr's can't comment on them without saying how big a rip off they are at that price.

But maybe it's just that your logic really is baffled.

[geepee16]

oh man, this is getting intense. this has all gotten a little off topic here but this is needed to happen for several reasons.  i want to say something about sapphire:

   there is a fact here that cannot be overstressed: there was official second print-run of sapphire and forgetting the fact that hudson themselves said so each time i asked,there are a few logical reasons why you should believe this anyway:
   the game was released as kind of an afterthought and in any case after the already discontinued and really undersold arcade card had made it's production run.  gears had already begun shifting to pc-fx mode.  we are talking november of 1995 here and the pc engine- while still fully supported was on the brink of discontinuation.  as we all know, japanese companies were not really into second runs of games with few exceptions (reference: radiant silvergun [5,000 copies i believe]).  so, with the pc engine reeling off the final games being developed for it and preparing to be discontinued and  FX production in full swing and the arcade card already discontinued, where was the logic in creating a second print run?
  the only thing that is in dispute as far as i am concerned is not the second official print run (there was none) but how many copies were in the first run. 
  some of the confusion regarding this game is undoubtedly due to the fact that it was released at a game show of sorts and shortly thereafter in stores.  but it was still only one run. 

http://hudsonent.com/feature.php?f=It%26%2339%3Bs_All_in_the_Card_%26%2340%3Bpart_II%26%2341%3B&feature_id=%99%A7%AA%A2%9A%A3&p=0

[vestcoat]

This is confusing.

there was official second print-run of sapphire

I assume you mean "there was [no] official second print-run of sapphire"

[spenoza]

That was the only way I could make it work, to assume there was indeed a word missing, as you suggest.

[Black Tiger]

http://hudsonent.com/feature.php?f=It%26%2339%3Bs_All_in_the_Card_%26%2340%3Bpart_II%26%2341%3B&feature_id=%99%A7%AA%A2%9A%A3&p=0

Is that your Acrade Card article? Kabuki Itouryoden is actually a completely original street fighter II'ish game, based off of the story/setting of TM: Fuun Kabuki Den. The Neo Geo TM/FEOE game is called Shinden/Kabuki Klash and it has Samurai Spirits'ish gameplay.

[Turbo D]

  So is he saying that there was a second print run aside from the obvious pirates? 

[Michael Helgeson]

I don't care who he is,his articles have errors,and even Keranu did something for them,its not all that much a big deal,not so much at least as this guys how to date book.  Seriously,just because the guy got to do a few articles for Hudson US doesn't make him a hardcore insider,nor give me  a reason to believe everything he says,esp when he doesn't even have valid proof to back it up.

So for that I will continue to just believe what Steve and the other guy told me at TZD,and Smart Works too,along with what was left of the 2-3 guys answering the phone at the Nec help line. Those are the types I consider insiders. Not just a guy who says he is due to a few articles and living in Japan,unless of course hes on the Hudson payroll???

And Im not even going to go all into the many times the mag insiders have fed out false info..... People have their own choice to make to believe what they want to,obviously,but I take my stance that when some wild new story comes along,it needs some kinda proof to make it factual.

[DreamTR]

Black Tiger, if you wer etalking strictly US releases, you would have never brought up any PC Engine title in your previous responses.

There is nothing "baffling" about my logic. If the game has slightly different alterations from a different time at the production facility, it does not necessarily make it a bootleg by any means.

These things popped up in Japan randomly at game stores, what is it, 50/50 with these Sapphires at places? I';m surprised people don't think the Majesco SNES stuff are not boots, but whatever, to get the art and manual the way they did, they would have seriously had to steal stuff from Hudson, but whatever. I'll always think there's more to this than meets the eye.

[SignOfZeta]

I don't care who he is,his articles have errors,and even Keranu did something for them,its not all that much a big deal,

Well, I know you won't take my advice on anything, but for what its worth GP is %100 to be trusted. His collection is better than Tatsujin's and he was on the mailing list even before I was. He's not some 1Up reject Hudson USA found. More like the Steve Pearl of games. Some of his editorial content is a bit off (for example, many 1st party Saturn games had second print runs, even non-SeGaCoRe versions of stuff like Princess Crown, Silvergun, and many more) but in general his logic adds up (Greatest Hits, PSOne Books etc were just coming into being in Japan at the time after all, there certainly was a time when 2nd prints were scarce as hell) and I trust him fully on the specifics.

For once Michael Helgeson, don't just be yourself.

Also, to you people who actually think the bootleg Sapphires are real; wake up. They aren't "from a different time at the production facility" they are from a different continent!