Hardest system to find complete games for?

[Michael Helgeson]

Well, I know you won't take my advice on anything, but for what its worth GP is %100 to be trusted. His collection is better than Tatsujin's and he was on the mailing list even before I was.

So by this logic then if you have a very large collection and are on a mailing list for years then everything you say will always be truthful/correct..... yea sure.....real valid major reasons listed there.

Some of his editorial content is a bit off

No kidding,I saw all sorts of f*ck ups in his articles....

and I trust him fully on the specifics.

and some of his f*ck ups were on the specifics....

For once Michael Helgeson, don't just be yourself.

So I should be a mindless sheep and just eat up anything I am told? No thanks. Besides I don't take advice from people who steal my own morals and valid gripes from a TZD thread, bash me for them, and then pass them off as his own on his radio show.

[SignOfZeta]

Oh bloody hell.

[Necromancer]

Interesting story, George, thanks for sharing.  It's totally lame and incomprehensible that they'd destroy a bunch of product to satisfy a debt.  Since it ain't free to haul a bunch of loaded pallets out to a landfill and pay the tipping fees, the dirty bums could've saved some dough by selling 'em for cheap or even giving 'em away for free (ET is a different story though, as nobody would've taken 'em without threat of bodily harm).  Mind you, this doesn't disprove your story in any way, as lame and incomprehensible decisions are the corporate way of life (witness every decision related to the Turbo in North America).

[geepee16]

i feel some things need to be cleared up:

    -indeed, i meant to say there was NO official second run of sapphire (though i think it was obvious that 's what i meant to say anyway[thanks to
     those of you who stepped in])
    
    -when posting my previous message on this thread last night, i thought about searching for an interesting blurb from ncsx.com and thought
     better of it as i didn't have time to go scrounging for it.  sadly, i couldn't find it but i have a feeling anyone who has been a customer of theirs
     for a long time will remember what i am talking about.  it was written at a time when they were getting lots of requests for special orders of
     discontinued games.  on their shop page they talked about why it was impossible due to the general unwillingness of japanese publishers to
     rerun a game.  this was very true in the early-mid 90s with perhaps a few exceptions.  unless the game was released with new packaging or a  
     sticker or something to differentiate it from the first run (like the segakores) or completely different artwork (like sakura taisen online
     [dreamcast]).  the game would otherwise have to be a super mega-seller like tengai makyou II which sold over 2,000,000   to warrant reprints.  
     (while i am certain that sapphire had no second run i can only be pretty-damned close to it about radiant silvergun not having one). the ONLY
     exception i know of would be dungeon explorer II in the US and that was only hudson allowing tzd 500 more copies in exchange for something
     involving another issue that tzd was going to take care of.

     -as for the destruction of turbo merchandise, i was neither giving an opinion nor creating fiction.  i hate to see flare-ups in this community because it's basically one of the few things Turbo we all still have.  with apologies to the original poster for taking part in getting off topic, i feel though that this needs to be said:
      Helgeson: I have been here on pcenginefx for about 11 years.  the forums were MUCH quieter then but i participated from time to time.  i went silent for years and it was only when you had your solar flare-up about tzd not doing right by you did i decided to jump back into the fray here.  it's not escaped me that your...incredible behavior... brought me to the boards in disgust and is the one thing that now makes we want to leave them in disgust.   you know, if this were all being done on the TML and you acted this way, i guarantee you would have been banned.  but, we are playing in a different house and we all have a little more room to stretch our legs and open our 'mouths'- however unfortunately big they are. you don't have to believe what i said about the destruction of un-bought turbo inventory if you don't want to.  you also don't have to believe that the Earth is round.  However, don't think it's asking too much for you to turn your volume down and behave like a fan (and not the shit that hits it from time to time).
      
      

[Tatsujin]

Sadly, a few years ago, a company in Switzerland began making near-perfect black-market copies of the game leading to some confusion and controversy.

oh yo yo, wait a moment. don't tag us swiss as some 1st grade soft pirates

just because they've used a made in swiss disk copy machine from "care4data" (which everyone can purchase and do its own professional copies) doesn't mean that the swiss are behind this rapine

(buy your very own and fancy sapphire copy station here >>> www.care4data.ch )

btw: do ya know the exact amount of those official 1st and 2nd print copies?

[Black Tiger]

Black Tiger, if you wer etalking strictly US releases, you would have never brought up any PC Engine title in your previous responses.

My entire post never mentioned the PC Engine once, which is why there were references to the cardboard boxes and the word "Turbo" everywhere. If you're saying that any of my responses to other comments since makes it hard for you to understand my original post, I believe it.

There is nothing "baffling" about my logic. If the game has slightly different alterations from a different time at the production facility, it does not necessarily make it a bootleg by any means.

Thats just it though, its not even remotely similar to any PC Engine game ever made. The catalogue number is even missing from the disc, replaced with the bootlegger's tags and a jumbo barcode. Every aspect of the bootlegs has major alterations. That's why I asked you why you don't consider the Space Fantasy Zone bootlegs to be real?

These things popped up in Japan randomly at game stores, what is it, 50/50 with these Sapphires at places? I';m surprised people don't think the Majesco SNES stuff are not boots, but whatever, to get the art and manual the way they did, they would have seriously had to steal stuff from Hudson, but whatever. I'll always think there's more to this than meets the eye.

They actually did a piss poor job with the art in the manual and the insert, that is one of the many giveaways. The fact that they look noticeably different in the scans shows that someone with a home scanner and contemporary printer can make much more accurate covers.

Why do you think the Majesco SNES stuff are not boots?

oh yo yo, wait a moment. don't tag us swiss as some 1st grade soft pirates

just because they've used a made in swiss disk copy machine from "care4data" (which everyone can purchase and do its own professional copies) doesn't mean that the swiss are behind this rapine

(buy your very own and fancy sapphire copy station here >>> www.care4data.ch )

btw: do ya know the exact amount of those official 1st and 2nd print copies?

Have you been able to confirm that that exact machine made the Sapphire discs? What about the weird discs themselves that have Care4data numbering? If it turns out that a machine that can still be purchased is capable of churning out 'factory pressed' Turbo/PCE CDs, then it can be used to for upcoming games from Mindrec and Frozen Utopia.

[Necromancer]

Have you been able to confirm that that exact machine made the Sapphire discs? What about the weird discs themselves that have Care4data numbering? If it turns out that a machine that can still be purchased is capable of churning out 'factory pressed' Turbo/PCE CDs, then it can be used to for upcoming games from Mindrec and Frozen Utopia.

It's doubtful, considering that those for-sale machines are CD duplicators (CD recording) and not CD replicators (CD stamping).  I believe that they've been contacted before (by BT, Rover, or someone) and replied that they could no longer do the PCE's nonstandard disc format, though they do still provide disc mastering and stamping services.

[Michael Helgeson]

geepee16,asking you if you have,or can provide proof to your story is not even the beginning of ban worthy,nor is the fact that I am openly stating I simply don't believe you at the moment because you don't have any proof to back it up. Just because you state it doesn't make it a fact,and you have  a serious ego issue if you think it does.

 I'm sorry,but this is a reality,for example,just like when you stated :

Kabuki Itouryodan -- On the same day that NEC brought Jongmaster, Hudson delivered one of its very few ever arcade releases. Based on the excellent Tengai Makyou (aka Far East of Eden) series, this 2D fighter ran beautifully on the Arcade Card, with bright colors coupled with fast, furious, and funny fighting action. It was to be one of five Neo Geo fighters to hit the Arcade CD format.

This was infact false as this was not the same game that was on the Neo-Geo MVS/AES.
Also,in regards to stating this about the Neo ports,

kept many of the Neo-Geo effects such as scaling,

this was again a false statement,as the smooth scaling transition was not kept in,and was faked via a different method that clearly is different then the original zoom method present in AOF for Neo-Geo. You made other false statements also,and your interview was filled with odd quirks that made it look more like promo filler then infact something the interviewed person actually stated in certain parts.

But by your statements and reasoning I should just believe all of it,that you are incapable of false info,correct?
I'm sorry,but if by nothing else then past false statements and remarks you made,thats enough to make me warrant a tad bit of actual proof to your latest story you presented. Im also puzzled why you think its such a big deal that I should believe everything you say,even making a  comparison basically stating Id also believe the world to be flat,since I don't believe your story.

For that matter openly asking you for a little proof to back up your story,or not believing it doesn't make me any less a fan of the Pc-Engine,as my fandom of the system,Hudson,or anything else related to those two or NEC have nothing to do with you. If you think its a requirement that I must believe in everything you say to be a fan,even a hard core one on the scene,then you seriously need a reality check,as no one here is required to kiss your ass,hang on your every word,and kneel before you just because you plop down a nice little story once in a blue moon with no valid proof to back it up,nor will it make them any less a fan to openly state they have doubts in what you say.

[SignOfZeta]

Sadly, a few years ago, a company in Switzerland began making near-perfect black-market copies of the game leading to some confusion and controversy.

oh yo yo, wait a moment. don't tag us swiss as some 1st grade soft pirates

I for one don't think that the person that spearheaded the Sapphire bootleg project was Swiss, I think he was German.

BTW, despite what Black Tiger says, I personally think that while the Sapphire bootleg has its flaws, its the single best bootleg of a game ever since it was actually designed to look like it was real, whereas most bootlegs are just designed to function and are terrible crap with no pages in the book, etc. Also, while the colors are off, that's not unique to bootlegs. I have an anime soundtrack someplace that has pretty lame colors and I'm %100 certain its legit. Its just the 50th print run or whatever and something got lost over the years.

[SignOfZeta]

geepee16,asking you if you have,or can provide proof to your story is not even the beginning of ban worthy,nor is the fact that I am openly stating I simply don't believe you at the moment because you don't have any proof to back it up. Just because you state it doesn't make it a fact,and you have  a serious ego issue if you think it does.

Michael Helgeson, you're basic problem with arguing is that you don't take the side of truth versus non-truth, or two truths versus another, you take the side of you versus your opponent. Once you've picked your side, even if proven totally wrong, you keep fighting because you have no cause other than your side winning. If you were a lawyer that would make you very professional, but once I knew that GeePee16 was George Plamantouras I backed off because sometimes I'm wrong. I think you are smart enough and knowledgeable enough about game stuff to be an asset to the community but you are so obsessed with "busting the bad guy" like some internet forum TJ Hooker, and never ever ever backing down even long after being proven wrong that it f*cks everything up.

Even if this story is made up, virtually every one of the "old timers" here will vouch for George Plamantouras. Nanto seems to have some sort of life, but if he were like us he'd be here defending him too.

[Black Tiger]

BTW, despite what Black Tiger says, I personally think that while the Sapphire bootleg has its flaws, its the single best bootleg of a game ever since it was actually designed to look like it was real, whereas most bootlegs are just designed to function and are terrible crap with no pages in the book, etc. Also, while the colors are off, that's not unique to bootlegs. I have an anime soundtrack someplace that has pretty lame colors and I'm %100 certain its legit. Its just the 50th print run or whatever and something got lost over the years.

The motives behind regular bootlegs and the Sapphire bootleg are completely different and as such so is the end product.

I agree that by video game bootleg standards its by far the best I've ever seen. Part of that is because it's actually made to look like the valuable original, where as bootlegs are made as cheap alternatives which are meant to be sold for next to nothing, simply as a (often somewhat) functional game. But when you compare it to the real thing, its clearly not an official product.

I have Tetris on a Genesis/Megadrive multi-cart that I paid $5 for 'complete' in box. But I don't think anyone is going to pay hundreds of dollars for it.

[Michael Helgeson]

geepee16,asking you if you have,or can provide proof to your story is not even the beginning of ban worthy,nor is the fact that I am openly stating I simply don't believe you at the moment because you don't have any proof to back it up. Just because you state it doesn't make it a fact,and you have  a serious ego issue if you think it does.

Michael Helgeson, you're basic problem with arguing is that you don't take the side of truth versus non-truth, or two truths versus another, you take the side of you versus your opponent. Once you've picked your side, even if proven totally wrong, you keep fighting because you have no cause other than your side winning. If you were a lawyer that would make you very professional, but once I knew that GeePee16 was George Plamantouras I backed off because sometimes I'm wrong. I think you are smart enough and knowledgeable enough about game stuff to be an asset to the community but you are so obsessed with "busting the bad guy" like some internet forum TJ Hooker, and never ever ever backing down even long after being proven wrong that it f*cks everything up.

Even if this story is made up, virtually every one of the "old timers" here will vouch for George Plamantouras. Nanto seems to have some sort of life, but if he were like us he'd be here defending him too.

The problem here is Zeta is I don't care to prove him wrong,Im just stating I don't really buy the story he told without some valid proof to back it.If he really is die hard about proving said story he can dig deep and tap his connections for dirt and valid proof. Part of this lack of belief is due to the other flawed info on his articles,and just simply because this is the first time this little story has materialized from anywhere.

Stories like these don't tend to just surface 13 years later.... If Ed Semrad or Shushi-X popped in out of the blue with such a story,or it was suddenly printed in a EGM I would still question it due to the fact EGM has dished out plenty of flawed and false info before,no matter who is playing editor in chief. When said source has put out false info before,its pretty understandable to question any future articles,reports,or even camp fire stories on a thread if there is a lacking amount of proof. Worse still Geepee seemed to come off as appalled that I asked for proof.

Also,another good point. Im not stating hes specifically lying,esp knowingly,esp on purpose. This story could very well have been related to him by others he trust and still be false,flawed info,regardless of the source. All he is simply doing is passing on said story/info,and I am simply stating I wouldn't give it credit without valid proof due to what others told me prior. Even when I pointed out a couple of his mess ups on his articles,I did not state he was lying,I stated his info there is false,flawed. He obviously didn't know any better,and just made the said statements. It happens all the time in the media.

Again,just because its stated by whomever doesn't always make it true. So Zeta,in this sense I am not at all wrong,nor have I been proven wrong as I am simply stating I choose not to believe such a story without proof. There is nothing wrong with stating what you believe and questioning whether or not something is valid. The only thing in question is if the story is a real valid piece of info,and if so,wheres the proof to back it up? With no proof it simply stays within the rumor mill.

Also,for that matter,anything I have stated I have been told by TZD,Smart Works employees,or on the NEC help line stays in the rumor mill also,as I have no valid proof to back it up as it was just stuff told to me on phone conversations. I'm simply stating I myself choose to believe it over said new story due to the source and time line in which said info was related to me.(no one here has to believe anything I say or what anyone says when relating such info)

[spenoza]

Michael, even though it's taken you WAY too many words per post you've been relatively non-inflammatory on this issue. The bad behavior people are attributing to you has to do with your aggressive, chest-thumping disagreements on previous topics. What people do, and the attitudes they take, follows them in communities like this, and in the past you've been known to flame away with little regard. But credit where credit is due, you aren't doing that here.

So, on this particular issue, lets all agree to disagree peacefully and move on.

[ceti alpha]

Proof is what prooven. If you don't take my word for it take Jean's lolmax!!