Author Topic: PC-ENGINE HELL  (Read 1258 times)

Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2008, 07:21:10 PM »
http://home.comcast.net/~amakusa666/PCE-HELL-reviews-0-m.htm

Reviews for Asuka, Ane-San,and Fighting Street added. :)

Sinistron

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2008, 02:59:45 AM »
Site is coming along gangbusters Mike- as usual.  This week's been busy so far- but I'll get back to coughing up reviews next week- looking forward to doubling my output  :)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 04:45:40 PM by Sinistron »

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ceti alpha

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2008, 03:05:38 AM »
Site is coming along gangbusters Mike- as usual.  This week's been busy so far- but I'll get back to coughing up reviews next week- loking forward to doubling my output  :)

hehe. Yeah, I should be able to get one or two pumped out this weekend as well. That is, if I can find time between my fits of raging alcoholism. Five days off in a row. Look out beer stores!


"Let the CAW and Mystery of a Journey Unlike Any Other Begin"

Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2008, 03:12:47 AM »
Same here guys,taking a break until the weekend at least :)

rag-time4

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2008, 03:32:51 PM »
http://home.comcast.net/~amakusa666/PCE-HELL-reviews-0-m.htm

Reviews for Asuka, Ane-San,and Fighting Street added. :)


I disagree with a comment from the Fighting Street review regarding the controls:
  One is that the controls for special moves simply do not work. Its more random then anything,
  like the game just simply expects you to do random panic movements everywhere and
  in the process pull off a move here and there in-between normal kicks and punches. It
  should be noted the arcade played like this also, it is not a flaw that was just picked up
  during being ported to TG-CD and PCE CD.


I've got a dedicated Street Fighter 1 machine, and I also have the game on Capcom Classics Collection vol. 2 for PS2. My arcade machine has been converted to the six-button setup, and the Capcom Classics emulates the 6-button setup. With the six-button setup, the buttons respond only when released, not when pressed, but they are consistent.

Originally, the arcade machine used 2 pressure sensitive buttons, which gave you stronger in-game attacks if you pushed/hit the button harder. The Turbo CD / PCE CD version attempts to emulate the 2 button setup but the buttons are not pressure sensitive, hence the controls are extremely awkward.

I've played Street Fighter 1 on the ultracade arcade emulator and on MAME and the controls do not respond the way they do on my arcade machine or on the capcom classics collection vol 2, so poorly emulated versions shouldn't be used to make a statement about the original arcade version.

click here for more discussion of the topic

or also here, to see what the innards of the 2 button setup looks like

I'm really loving the arcade compare!  8) :clap:


HAHA After checking out more of the site I love this too.... particularly the nice Robocop 2 reference.... I never thought I would see officer Duffy again! Made my day with that Mike!

What does he say.... "Duffy, you're a rotten cop!"
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 03:53:59 PM by rag-time4 »

Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2008, 06:38:30 PM »
http://home.comcast.net/~amakusa666/PCE-HELL-reviews-0-m.htm

Reviews for Asuka, Ane-San,and Fighting Street added. :)


I disagree with a comment from the Fighting Street review regarding the controls:
  One is that the controls for special moves simply do not work. Its more random then anything,
  like the game just simply expects you to do random panic movements everywhere and
  in the process pull off a move here and there in-between normal kicks and punches. It
  should be noted the arcade played like this also, it is not a flaw that was just picked up
  during being ported to TG-CD and PCE CD.


I've got a dedicated Street Fighter 1 machine, and I also have the game on Capcom Classics Collection vol. 2 for PS2. My arcade machine has been converted to the six-button setup, and the Capcom Classics emulates the 6-button setup. With the six-button setup, the buttons respond only when released, not when pressed, but they are consistent.

Originally, the arcade machine used 2 pressure sensitive buttons, which gave you stronger in-game attacks if you pushed/hit the button harder. The Turbo CD / PCE CD version attempts to emulate the 2 button setup but the buttons are not pressure sensitive, hence the controls are extremely awkward.

I've played Street Fighter 1 on the ultracade arcade emulator and on MAME and the controls do not respond the way they do on my arcade machine or on the capcom classics collection vol 2, so poorly emulated versions shouldn't be used to make a statement about the original arcade version.

click here for more discussion of the topic

or also here, to see what the innards of the 2 button setup looks like

I'm really loving the arcade compare!  8) :clap:


HAHA After checking out more of the site I love this too.... particularly the nice Robocop 2 reference.... I never thought I would see officer Duffy again! Made my day with that Mike!

What does he say.... "Duffy, you're a rotten cop!"


I had issues with the original arcade 2 button as well as a teen,and not just due to the specials,but also the floaty diagonal jumps having a brief pause before doing so,ect,and fighting with the big buttons. Notice in my review I made no mention of the 6-button kit or playing on Mame. It wasn't just released for you in your home town and I am speaking from my own personal experience with it,not on hear say. However,I will say I never saw a 6-button one near me on commission,but was aware it existed due to seeing cabs scrapped and hosting World Warrior pcb kits instead,so I cant comment on how well it plays compared to the two button original set up. You shouldn't assume everyone just used Mame for their first or only experience with Street Fighter1/Fighting Street [-X .

You are entitled to your opinion,but the games controls for special moves and in general were just poor compared to SF2 or even Fatal Fury 1 due to response issues and timings being picky/unforgiving with those stupid fugly buttons not working right and the over all floatyness. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to pull off moves or certain attacks,and when the average person has to due so due to poorly designed play schemes and ugly large buttons, people are going to complain. I got to play the game about almost a year before I got to play Street Fighter 2 CE, so Im not speaking from fuzzy youth memories from 87.

My first experience with SF2 was on a CE cab,not a World Warrior one,so I was a tad bit of a late comer. I actually played Fatal Fury first. Its funny cause I had no issues pulling off fireballs and dragon punches right away. Ken and Ryu were the only characters I used  for my arcade play due to knowing what their moves were from playing SF1. I didn't learn to use other characters until I got World Warrior for Snes. I remember being very impressed with how it played compared to SF1.

You come off as like you assume you are talking to a guy who doesn't know shit about anything arcade,jamma, ect...( though you may not mean to,but you are seemingly assuming so) but I'm not that person. I'm well aware of the 2 button original being upscaled to 6 buttons, the whole history of that ordeal and as to why it was done (due to the 2 button scheme not working well), and that others openly complained about the 2 button versions control and response issues,not just from Mame experiences. You seem to have forgotten that you are posting to a guy who made a nice chunk of change buying up and reselling arcade equipment and building and selling supergun kits as a hobby, and not just some emu-chump from 1up.com.

And yea,Arcade Compare is great  :wink: Duffy is classic  :lol:
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 06:47:29 PM by Michael Helgeson »

rag-time4

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2008, 06:59:15 PM »
http://home.comcast.net/~amakusa666/PCE-HELL-reviews-0-m.htm

Reviews for Asuka, Ane-San,and Fighting Street added. :)


I disagree with a comment from the Fighting Street review regarding the controls:
  One is that the controls for special moves simply do not work. Its more random then anything,
  like the game just simply expects you to do random panic movements everywhere and
  in the process pull off a move here and there in-between normal kicks and punches. It
  should be noted the arcade played like this also, it is not a flaw that was just picked up
  during being ported to TG-CD and PCE CD.


I've got a dedicated Street Fighter 1 machine, and I also have the game on Capcom Classics Collection vol. 2 for PS2. My arcade machine has been converted to the six-button setup, and the Capcom Classics emulates the 6-button setup. With the six-button setup, the buttons respond only when released, not when pressed, but they are consistent.

Originally, the arcade machine used 2 pressure sensitive buttons, which gave you stronger in-game attacks if you pushed/hit the button harder. The Turbo CD / PCE CD version attempts to emulate the 2 button setup but the buttons are not pressure sensitive, hence the controls are extremely awkward.

I've played Street Fighter 1 on the ultracade arcade emulator and on MAME and the controls do not respond the way they do on my arcade machine or on the capcom classics collection vol 2, so poorly emulated versions shouldn't be used to make a statement about the original arcade version.

click here for more discussion of the topic

or also here, to see what the innards of the 2 button setup looks like

I'm really loving the arcade compare!  8) :clap:


HAHA After checking out more of the site I love this too.... particularly the nice Robocop 2 reference.... I never thought I would see officer Duffy again! Made my day with that Mike!

What does he say.... "Duffy, you're a rotten cop!"


I had issues with the original arcade 2 button as well as a teen,and not just due to the specials,but also the floaty diagonal jumps having a brief pause before doing so,ect,and fighting with the big buttons. Notice in my review I made no mention of the 6-button kit or playing on Mame. It wasn't just released for you in your home town and I am speaking from my own personal experience with it,not on hear say. However,I will say I never saw a 6-button one near me on commission,but was aware it existed due to seeing cabs scrapped and hosting World Warrior pcb kits instead,so I cant comment on how well it plays compared to the two button original set up. You shouldn't assume everyone just used Mame for their first or only experience with Fighting Street [-X .

You are entitled to your opinion,but the games controls for special moves and in general were just poor compared to SF2 or even Fatal Fury 1 due to response issues and timings being picky/unforgiving with those stupid fugly buttons not working right and the over all floatyness. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to pull off moves or certain attacks,and when the average person has to due so due to poorly designed play schemes and ugly large buttons, people are going to complain. I got to play the game about almost a year before I got to play Street Fighter 2 CE, so Im not speaking from fuzzy youth memories from 87.

My first experience with SF2 was on a CE cab,not a World Warrior one,so I was a tad bit of a late comer. I actually played Fatal Fury first. Its funny cause I had no issues pulling off fireballs and dragon punches right away. Ken and Ryu were the only characters I used  for my arcade play due to knowing what their moves were from playing SF1. I didn't learn to use other characters until I got World Warrior for Snes. I remember being very impressed with how it played compared to SF1.

You come off as like you assume you are talking to a guy who doesn't know shit about anything arcade,jamma, ect...( though you may not mean to,but you are seemingly assuming so) but I'm not that person. I'm well aware of the 2 button original being upscaled to 6 buttons, the whole history of that ordeal and as to why it was done (due to the 2 button scheme not working well), and that others openly complained about the 2 button versions control and response issues,not just from Mame experiences. You seem to have forgotten that you are posting to a guy who made a nice chunk of change buying up and reselling arcade equipment and building and selling supergun kits as a hobby, and not just some emu-chump from 1up.com.

And yea,Arcade Compare is great  :wink: Duffy is classic  :lol:


No Mike, I know full well how into arcade stuff you were / are. If anything, I assumed you had played it on a supergun without having things configured for the buttons.

When I first bought my dedicated cab, it was set up for Street Fighter II, so it didn't work right away. I remember the technician that rewired it for me had to get his hands on a schematic manual because of the button setup, so there may be some special wiring or PCB required to get the 6 button setup to work right when using a normal JAMMA connector, particularly if you are using the original PCB with the setup for the air hoses.

When compared to SF2, there is a degree of floatiness... for example when you move to the right or left, in SF1 your character will hop a predetermined distance, whereas in SF2 movement is much more fluid. Personally my only experience on the 2 button setup was as a 7-8 year old, and I could only manage jabs, but from what I remember the response was instantaneous. I have the buttons and would love to get another cab so I could experience the 2 button setup again.

If you want to try the 6 button setup, check out capcom classics vol 2 for PS2 if you have that system... the controls work fine.

Which was my main bone of contention with your review.. you said the controls didn't work, and that the controls not working is not exclusive to the Turbo CD / PCE ports.

Based on my experience with the arcade machine, I disagree with you there, but I'll admit it's been a long time (20 years) since I played a 2 button arcade version!

The 6 button setup works flawlessly in my opinion, though I do agree control and gameplay aren't as "smooth" as SF2... but I think the control for SF1 (6 button) does work and is consistent.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 07:02:08 PM by rag-time4 »

Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2008, 07:39:00 PM »
Yea and there's the problem as your saying you played it as a wee lad and only did jabs. You cant really say it worked perfect when you weren't really able to play it fully,just doing jabs and all and not knowing what all to do or how to play. Me saying the controls were problematic on the arcade original as well as the home port was correct,and the control is not smooth on the 2-button cab. The difference in time from me playing the arcade 2-button setup and the TG-Cd was a matter of 2 years maybe.

My memory isn't fuzzy about it, and I did alot more then jabs. I wont bother with the Capcom collections disc. Im perfectly happy with the PCE port as it is and doing the special move code, and Im not going to go out of my way to experience the game in a slightly better form then what it was released as originally. My only goal was to review the PCE/TG-CD port and call it like I see it. You're personal experience with the 6-button fix for the arcade kit has no bearings on this situation aka my review, and can barely even be applied to most people who played the game in the arcades due to the fact the 6-button fix wasn't widely used on all the 2-button cabs and came about at near the end of the games cycle of popularity.

Vendors who did the fix mainly did it to keep from having to keep fixing the 2-button set up because it broke down alot. This way they could keep milking the meager earnings from the game if they wanted to,as it wasn't ideal to just convert its cab to another popular game at that time that only used a couple of buttons or shared sticks like Willow,Robocop,ect.

rag-time4

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2008, 07:56:36 PM »
Yea and there's the problem as your saying you played it as a wee lad and only did jabs. You cant really say it worked perfect when you weren't really able to play it fully,just doing jabs and all and not knowing what all to do or how to play. Me saying the controls were problematic on the arcade original as well as the home port was correct,and the control is not smooth on the 2-button cab. The difference in time from me playing the arcade 2-button setup and the TG-Cd was a matter of 2 years maybe.

My memory isn't fuzzy about it, and I did alot more then jabs. I wont bother with the Capcom collections disc. Im perfectly happy with the PCE port as it is and doing the special move code, and Im not going to go out of my way to experience the game in a slightly better form then what it was released as originally. My only goal was to review the PCE/TG-CD port and call it like I see it. You're personal experience with the 6-button fix for the arcade kit has no bearings on this situation aka my review, and can barely even be applied to most people who played the game in the arcades due to the fact the 6-button fix wasn't widely used on all the 2-button cabs and came about at near the end of the games cycle of popularity.

Vendors who did the fix mainly did it to keep from having to keep fixing the 2-button set up because it broke down alot. This way they could keep milking the meager earnings from the game if they wanted to,as it wasn't ideal to just convert its cab to another popular game at that time that only used a couple of buttons or shared sticks like Willow,Robocop,ect.

Thanks for sharing that code, btw!

From my experience in the bay area.... I only saw the 2 button cab once in my life, but I saw 6 button cabs all over the place, so as far as being applicable to barely any who played in the arcades, I have to strongly disagree.

There were 4 years between SF1 and SF2, is that right? I remember getting a SF1 6-button cab in my favorite pizza parlor in my hometown when I was in 2nd-3rd grade (right around 88) and it stayed there for a couple years... After my parents divorced and I moved to another town with my mom in 89, they had a SF1 6-button cab there as well. I remember seeing SF1 6-button in Pier-39's arcade well after SF2 was released... and that was a pretty popular arcade, though I understand what you are saying that the 6-button was released too late...

I'm not buying that... because in my experience the 6-button was what I played as a kid and it was in my hometown very soon after the game came out.

The only place I ever saw a 2 button SF1 in my life was at an arcade in a shopping mall about 30 minutes away from my hometown... I only played it a couple times but I remember watching a guy blow through the game throwing fireballs consistently...

Like I said I really want to try the 2 button setup myself to see for myself how it works (or doesn't work)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 08:20:16 PM by rag-time4 »

Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2008, 09:49:18 PM »
The game came out in Aug 87,and the 6 button fix was not added until mid 88 after the game had its run in arcades and failed. Ive spoken to plenty of vendors about this game local and ebay, as I did search for a pcb of it at one point in time to buy. It was not popular at all and did not earn its money back for anyone I spoke to who ran it regardless of the 6-button fix. Thats why there is plenty of pcbs available but hardly any original cabs,even in the collector scene. Unless the game is a major hit,its run is usually considered over within half a year in the AAMA/ American arcade scene with vendors, and its retired to gas stations,pizza places,ect.. to try to earn some meager cash back or stripped/destroyed, unless the person running the arcade has the space to simply let it continue to run and doesn't care.

Its obvious you don't really know much about this games run, how it was dreaded among AAMA members, or how vendors in general operate, and are just running off of memories of your childhood pizza parlor visits. Your dates are faulty just going off of child memories. Mid 88 is not considered soon after a game comes out when it was released in late summer 87,esp in the arcade world where unsuccessful games go away in months to take abuse in gas stations.

SF1 here was kept running only at a couple laundry mats and a diner near Rose City/the ghetto in my area,and it was suspected by me and friends that it was the same machine being bounced around on a  retirement route because Godwins never popped it back up anywhere after it left the diner. It was prob picked up at a auction to begin with since Godwins didn't have it on route or in their arcades at release. This is the main reason why I did not get to try it until well down the road when I was in my teens,it was no longer widely available.

The main large arcades here  did not even have the game when it was freshly released due to the complaints it had at the AAMA shows. Our local major vendors (King Koin,Galaxy Amusements, US Amusement Co., Godwins) were not interested in the risk when they could have Ninja Warriors, Shinobi, Outrun, Xenophobe ect.. running and making money and not breaking down as fast. If you want to ask around or do a poll of who got to play it as a two button set up,or 6 button set up, or how popular and widely available it was in either format,hit Klov /Vaps forum. You'll see there isn't many people owning cabs with 6 button fixes there, or even 2 button ones,or that the game was well received, liked, nor widely available everywhere. You will even find that Karate Champ stayed on routes longer if you ask around,as it was more popular and beat out SF1 for money,even after it had been out for about 3 years prior.

Also, honestly your memories of  a guy constantly doing fireballs all the sudden cant seriously be taken, as your impressions of what was taking place are prob not what was actually happening given you were 7-8 at the time anyway. At anyrate, this thread is about Pc-Engine Hell,not about Rags Memory Lane Street Fighter experiences, defense, and debates. You are more then welcome to bump your old threads about the subject,but otherwise consider it dead on this thread as I would like to stay on topic about the site,not your memories as a kid or of your weird obsession with this game and its perfect experience.

rag-time4

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2008, 09:57:40 PM »
The game came out in Aug 87,and the 6 button fix was not added until mid 88 after the game had its run in arcades and failed. Ive spoken to plenty of vendors about this game local and ebay, as I did search for a pcb of it at one point in time to buy. It was not popular at all and did not earn its money back for anyone I spoke to who ran it regardless of the 6-button fix. Thats why there is plenty of pcbs available but hardly any original cabs,even in the collector scene. Unless the game is a major hit,its run is usually considered over within half a year in the AMOA/ American arcade scene with vendors, and its retired to gas stations,pizza places,ect.. to try to earn some meager cash back or stripped/destroyed, unless the person running the arcade has the space to simply let it continue to run and doesn't care.

Its obvious you don't really know much about this games run, how it was dreaded among AAMA members, or how vendors in general operate, and are just running off of memories of your childhood pizza parlor visits. Your dates are faulty just going off of child memories. Mid 88 is not considered soon after a game comes out when it was released in late summer 87,esp in the arcade world where unsuccessful games go away in months to take abuse in gas stations.

SF1 here was kept running only at a couple laundry mats and a diner near Rose City/the ghetto in my area,and it was suspected by me and friends that it was the same machine being bounced around on a  retirement route because Godwins never popped it back up anywhere after it left the diner. It was prob picked up at a auction to begin with since Godwins didn't have it on route or in their arcades at release. This is the main reason why I did not get to try it until well down the road when I was in my teens,it was no longer widely available.

The main large arcades here  did not even have the game when it was freshly released due to the complaints it had at the AAMA shows. Our local major vendors (King Koin,Galaxy Amusements, US Amusement Co., Godwins) were not interested in the risk when they could have Ninja Warriors, Shinobi, Outrun, Xenophobe ect.. running and making money and not breaking down as fast. If you want to ask around or do a poll of who got to play it as a two button set up,or 6 button set up, or how popular and widely available it was in either format,hit Klov /Vaps forum. You'll see there isn't many people owning cabs with 6 button fixes there, or even 2 button ones,or that the game was well received, liked, nor widely available everywhere. You will even find that Karate Champ stayed on routes longer if you ask around,as it was more popular and beat out SF1 for money,even after it had been out for about 3 years prior.

Also, honestly your memories of  a guy constantly doing fireballs all the sudden cant seriously be taken, as your impressions of what was taking place are prob not what was actually happening given you were 7-8 at the time anyway. At anyrate, this thread is about Pc-Engine Hell,not about Rags Memory Lane Street Fighter experiences, defense, and debates. You are more then welcome to bump your old threads about the subject,but otherwise consider it dead on this thread as I would like to stay on topic about the site,not your memories as a kid or of your weird obsession with this game and its perfect experience.

Mike, thanks for the history lesson about the game... We have very different perspectives on it! It was totally my favorite game back in those days, and it still is.

Wasn't trying to derail the thread! I only wanted to voice my disagreement with something you said in your review on your website.

Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2008, 12:11:26 PM »
Some minor updates have been added. Basically a couple of reviews, realigning some items so they display correctly on IE,a 3DO mini page,and a hidden easter egg page dedicated to everyone's fav,or least fav, racist drag queen. Look around hard enough and you may find it. :)

Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2008, 09:11:53 AM »
More reviews added.

Sinistron

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2008, 11:07:41 AM »
I completely agree on the Ninja Gaiden score Mike- a fine game.  Haha I looked a bit for the Easter Egg- thought maybe you'd have his pic superimposed over one of the game characters in one of the reviews- finally found it though LOL.  :)

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Quote from: Tatsujin
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Michael Helgeson

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Re: PC-ENGINE HELL
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2008, 11:19:48 AM »
Yea I figured Id put it where no one would look much. Cant give him too much attention.:P