Author Topic: Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games  (Read 3590 times)

GUTS

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #135 on: January 10, 2006, 06:53:41 PM »
Yeah I totally agree, retranslating stuff is a pointless waste of time.  I'd much rather play new games then the same game with a different translation, and honestly most of the retranslations I've seen aren't any better than the original and are actually worse in most cases (like this one FFIII re-translation I played was f*cking awful, somebody actually said "PWNED" or some shit like that).

On Working Designs, I couldn't believe the amount of hate either.  I think it's just becuase Vic was such a public figure that everybody had somebody to hate on.  I mean I can't stand some of the shit Atlus does (like Magna Carta, ugh) but since they're just a faceless company there's nobody to hold a personal grudge against for passing up awesome shit like Ikusa Gami for garbage like Samurai Wester.

TR0N

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #136 on: January 10, 2006, 08:16:09 PM »
Quote from: "NightWolve"

Hell, forget him, how about Victor Ireland and dancing over the grave of Working Designs [err, now 'Failing Designs']? LOL That's some real hatred I've come across right there...

Love or a hate thing when people mention Vic.

Some of the message boards i visit have different opinions.

On, WD going kaput some are glad he's gone some are upset over it imo :?

Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :?:

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NightWolve

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #137 on: January 11, 2006, 12:48:06 AM »
Quote from: Tron
Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :?:

Nah, I'm spent there. I do have plans for "Ys: The Oath in Felghana" for Windows [PC], and I have a feeling, if you like the Ys series, you'll find that quite a bit more enjoyable than anything found on the little ole PCE HE system.



Trust me. ;)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 09:23:18 PM by NightWolve »

GUTS

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #138 on: January 11, 2006, 08:30:46 AM »
Rad dude, that looks awesome.  Have you tried Xanadu Next?  That game kicks ass too, I wish somebody would have a crack at translating it.

NightWolve

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #139 on: January 12, 2006, 12:06:57 AM »
Well, I took a look at it. I didn't get too far, cause it looks complicated, and I usually don't play them very far in Japanese - I just wanted to check it out briefly. But yeah, if I ever think about another translation project down the road, it might be that or even ED6.

TR0N

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #140 on: January 12, 2006, 01:06:01 AM »
Quote from: "NightWolve"
Quote from: "Tron"
Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :?:

Nah, I'm spent there. I do have plans for "Ys: The Oath in Felghana" for Windows [PC], and I have a feeling, if you like the Ys series, you'll find that quite a bit more enjoyable than anything found on the little ole PCE HE system.



Trust me. ;)

Looks good that's if i ever get the time to get a copy :P

Import pc games can be down right expensive :x

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esteban

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #141 on: January 14, 2006, 08:15:57 PM »
Quote from: "NightWolve"
Quote from: "Tron"
Any ways got any more fan translation plan for, PCE games :?:

Nah, I'm spent there. I do have plans for "Ys: The Oath in Felghana" for Windows [PC], and I have a feeling, if you like the Ys series, you'll find that quite a bit more enjoyable than anything found on the little ole PCE HE system.

Trust me. ;)
Wow, that's too awesome. Folks have praised this game, but the prospect of an Enlgish-language version is just too awesome.

Anyway, as far as "re-translating" is concerned: I agree that (most often) it is much more productive to work on a new title. That said, I am always curious about how original vs. localized scripts differ -- but usually the key differences can be sufficiently documented in an article or FAQ or something.

Anyway, I loved WD. Who cares if they bastardized the original scripts? We got some great stuff from them... I don't know if more faithful translations would have been as memorable or as enjoyable. For example, I love the bastardized "Battle of the Planets" cartoon we got here in the States, since that's the cartoon I grew up watching. This rings even truer for Robotech. Regardless of how bastardized the U.S. localizations were, they're the ones I love.

When great liberties are taken with orginal source material, I do like to be aware of it... but it doesn't mean that we can't enjoy the creative localizations as well.
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NightWolve

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #142 on: January 14, 2006, 09:49:21 PM »
Quote from: "stevek666"
That said, I am always curious about how original vs. localized scripts differ -- but usually the key differences can be sufficiently documented in an article or FAQ or something.

Anyway, I loved WD. Who cares if they bastardized the original scripts? We got some great stuff from them... I don't know if more faithful translations would have been as memorable or as enjoyable. For example, I love the bastardized "Battle of the Planets" cartoon we got here in the States, since that's the cartoon I grew up watching. This rings even truer for Robotech. Regardless of how bastardized the U.S. localizations were, they're the ones I love.

When great liberties are taken with orginal source material, I do like to be aware of it... but it doesn't mean that we can't enjoy the creative localizations as well.


Eh, you know, I agree with you in a way, but it's kind of interesting. Take Working Designs. I'm an American and I was targetted as such with their localization for N. America for some game, let's say CF2. I buy the product, highly enjoy it, and wind up still having fond memories for it even today. Now, I'm still naive at this point. Where the game came from is of no interest to me. Whether WD created it from scratch or took it from another country and made it its own, it's inconsequetial to me, right? Assuming I'm still naive about how exactly it came into creation.

Fast forward to now. You get on the Internet and you run into these "purists..." They start whispering in your ears about liberties taken with the translations of various games WD did, right? You didn't know this before and curiously enough, you didn't friggin' care, did you?? Hehe. So, you ask them, would the script have been better with a more one-to-one translation? They say, "NO, that's not the point!! The original script writers had their material altered beyond recognition! You never got to experience it!" Oh, I say... Oh...

What's my point?? I think it's what Cypher said to Mr. Smith, "Ignorance is bliss..." ;) I know I enjoyed WD a lot more before I had rabid WD and Victor Ireland haters 'whisphering' in my ears about their "bastardizations..."

It also goes to my experience with one of them who used to help with my translation projects for Ys games. Shimarisu is her nick, and originally I was quite happy to have found someone who was both a Japanese/English translator and a loyal Ys fan. Take the "Ys I Complete" game. Originally, Deuce, my current translator, appeared out of nowhere and translated the script in two weeks. I didn't search him out, he found me. I left the patch system as such so that anyone could edit the script and he went and took advantage of that. So I played the game with his script, and really enjoyed the game, but it wasn't quite finished and he had some incomplete strings to deal with. I had already made arrangements with Shimarisu to work on the script, so I thought, hey, two translators would help with a more accurate translation/localization, so the more the better, right??? WRONG!!!!!!!

Alright, so she finishes her proofing/rewriting of Deuce's script work, and I make a patch and I'm all happy thinking the mistakes would be gone, but then, after playing the game, I start noticing something... something had gone awry.... I'm telling you, I was almost ready to cry. I'm like, WTF, what's going on here? This is horribly dry and repititious!! There were horrible lines by Sarah like, "She is my aunt. She will help you. She can found to the north..."  I'm like, what happened to the good lines by Deuce??? Little did I realize this chick used to argue with Victor Ireland in IRC and claims because Vic once told her to go learn Japanese if she wanted games translated her way, she in fact, did just that.... OMG! To "balance" her perception of a world gone mad with localization styles done by companies such as Working Designs, she feels the need to go to the extreme opposite and boy does it show!

Anyway, her translation was circulated for a long time with my patch, until early 2005 when Deuce and I decided to redo it, and finish the job with Ys II Complete which we did. We fixed a lot of mistakes and he had restored some of the naturalizations he had originally done and the script is better for it. If you want an example of a crap literal translation, take a look at my Xak III patch. Akimaru, who proofed that, now regrets his Japanophilia/Fanboyism for leaving it with a more literal translation style. It's bearable, but it shows.

So yeah, all that experience colors my opinion of purists. If people listened to them, we would all be damned with horrible, horrible scripts... Believe you me. I've seen it!!! I've had the displeasure of failing miserably with my editing attempts at it! DON'T YOU BELIEVE 'EM!! :P Above all, don't let them destroy your image/love/respect for Working Designs! NEVER!

nodtveidt

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #143 on: January 15, 2006, 06:29:16 AM »
One thing I find to be funny about people who whine about translations is that they don't understand that there is always a substantial amount of definition change when crossing the line from one language to another. I'll give a very valid example from our own production, Mysterious Song.

In the original English script, there's a woman who says "I can't find my pussy anywhere! *slap* I meant my cat, pervert!". In English, clearly this is serious innuendo. This does not translate correctly to any other language though, so it has to be rewritten when translated. Also, certain lines in the original English script are meant to be funny but completely lose their punch if translated literally, so the translator has to replace the line with something that gives a similar amount of comic punch. This isn't always easy to do...

As for WD...don't worry, they will be back. This is merely a transitional phase.

GUTS

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #144 on: January 15, 2006, 03:50:20 PM »
Haha I totally agree with Nightwolve.  In my experience most people who complain about translations is a f*cktard, especially the people who bitched about Working Designs.  There's a whole group of people out there who rag on the awesome Tales of Phantasia translation because they're morons.

esteban

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #145 on: January 15, 2006, 10:04:29 PM »
I loved reading about the specific experieces you two (NightWolve and nodtveidt) had with localizing scripts.

Bottom line: translating a script is a creative process, even when you are trying to be faithful to the orginal text, and results in a "new" work of art that will never satisfy everyone. Translators have it rough! :)
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Ninja Spirit

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #146 on: January 19, 2006, 01:40:46 PM »
Haha, kinda reminds me of the book "The Grapes of Wrath".

The Japanese found the title funny because the kanji for the title literally became "Angry Raisins"

eastx

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #147 on: January 22, 2006, 08:09:53 PM »
I think I tend to enjoy a more literal translation, but I want figurative language and such to be used so it isn't too dry or repetitive... Apparently the Japanese aren't too big on synonyms, now are they? Heh, J/K. But a translation going completely OT isn't the best way to spice up a game, either. A translated game should be fun in the way the developers intended. If the old game had a joke (that wouldn't make sense in English), then sure, we should get a different joke. But I think it should be the same kind of joke, capturing the original spirit.

If Working Designs did that, then they were awesome. My issues with them were their reprogrammings... Like removing the easy mode from Thunder Force 5. That's not good! Making Sillhouette Mirage harder, stealing experience in Lunar 2 for Sega CD when you save... No thank you! That really is messing with the creators' intent.
I think the real reason they failed is the insane collectors' editions and high price tags. If they'd just released the best games they could for $50, they would have done SO much better. Fanboys will bring in $, but not enough $... The proof is in the pudding.
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NightWolve

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #148 on: January 23, 2006, 05:53:42 PM »
Quote from: "eastx"
creators' intent/what developers intended/capturing the original spirit

This is the crux of the matter, scriptwise, for purists, I think. They apparently place a high value or blind trust on the creators' intent in all aspects. You're essentially saying, "Don't touch anything, the Japanese writers are by default awesome, so I wanna know exactly what their intent was for every line, etc."

You know, it's like, why assign them such praise and respect as writers and assume you would've got a better experience with a more literal translation? I think that if their writing was so good, you wouldn't have to do anything to the script, aside from naturalizing it like what we've talked about already such as to maintain the same comic punch for some line that just wouldn't work in English, etc.

From a business standpoint, it is easier and cheaper to do the literal translation and not really give a shit if it's at least decent. You thereby place blind "trust" with the original writers, do a straight up localization, and if it comes out to be a boring piece of shit, well, then you can just claim you "honored" the creators' intent, I guess, and then use that in your marketing... ;)

Oh and yeah, correct on the lack of synonyms in the Japanese language. They either don't have 'em or don't use 'em...

eastx

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Censoring / Sanitizing North American Games
« Reply #149 on: January 23, 2006, 06:03:01 PM »
Well, why shouldn't I trust Falcom, if they made Ys? Or any original developer? If I like the game, do I need it to be improved? Why translate a game at all if its story isn't worth maintaining?
Like I said, when Working Designs tried to improve the games they released here through code changes (removing Easy mode, etc.), they usually harmed the game more than they helped it. How is trying to improve a script by writing something original or off-topic any different? Why must it be done? I'm not seeing it...
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