Erecycleronline AKA Erecycler LLC FAST SHIPPERS OR FAST SCAMMERS?

[Michael Helgeson]

Item won:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=310129416100

Seller shipped blazing fast. Item arrived today. Item arrived dead. Motor spindle area was busted and fell off tray in pieces when I ejected the tray. Have no idea if anything else is any good part wise because I can not stick a disc in this player. Upon initial guess I assumed that this may be due to UPS negligence, so I called them to make them aware there was a issue, and I would contact the seller to see what they would like to do. Keep in mind via UPS item was fully insured for 100 dollars. Called seller. A woman there named Sarah Cox listened to me explain the situation, seemed understanding enough, but then spoke to a guy named "Bob". Bob evidently is the manager, the lower overlord, the masta blasta of givin orders and common bitch slaps to Sarah in the form of commands. Bob denied any responsibility in the situation, stating that because I chose UPS (already automatically insured fully)and did not give them 2 extra dollars they (Sarah the puppet) said they (Sarah the puppet) can not help me. I told them this 2 dollar deal was moot. Item was fully insured via UPS, they can,and will assist in this problem. I mentioned Paypal dispute, Sarah got quiet..... Sarah said to go ahead and call UPS back and have them pick up the package. I also stated that I had another transaction pending with them, will not be paying until this is resolved. Item was same type of laserdisc player.

Sarah said she totally understood this situation and did not blame me (gut feeling said she didn't care, they just tried to pretend they were not responsible to file a claim). During my call with UPS to arrange pick up, I got a email from puppet,err Sarah. It stated:
"Sir:

To summarize our telephone conversation earlier today, you said you believed the UPS driver dropped the package containing auction item 310129416100, that the unit was damaged, and that you wanted us to file a damage claim on your behalf.  However, since the insurance coverage was declined during checkout, we would be unable to finalize the claim process for you.  Your statement was that, unless we did file that claim, you would not pay for the second auction bid on and won from us, item number 310129762349.  Please let me know any parts of the conversation I missed so that our notes may be fully complete.  Thank you.

--
Thank you,
Sarah
Customer Service Dept.
Sarah@erecycler.net
www.erecycler.net
This e-mail message and all documents which accompany it are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader is not the intended recipient, any disclosure, distribution or other use of this e-mail message is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender immediately. This material is copyrighted to Erecycler LLC.  Thank you.
Nothing in this message is intended to constitute an Electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act (UETA) or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act ("E-Sign") unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message."

As you can see Sarah is now backtracking back towards the whole "we don't have to help you" sorta thing. And seriously, I dont think anyone would do another purchase with someone until the current deal is resolved, esp in a case like this, get a clue Sarah. You sure are master of the obvious. At anyrate I went ahead and opened a dispute. I realized this was headed south fast, after all, business is in Texas . But in all seriousness, the tone of her email sent off bad vibes. Id need a dispute anyway. UPS refunds them in a claim, not me. All I can do is hand over the package. I opened a dispute, and also called paypal to inform them of the issues and make sure I didn't need any certain info from UPS tomorrow. Paypal said this may take some time, but I should get fully refunded. I informed them of this sellers attempt to cop out with the 2 dollar excuse. The paypal agent stressed to me this is indeed not my concern, only the sellers. I already knew this from prior happenings, but its always nice to know they still brag they will enforce their policy over the sellers.

I opened the dispute and stated everything the rep basically said I should state.
Here is what was stated,also including a email I sent to Sarah to make her aware I opened the dispute, so she would have  anormal reply to her email:
Per speaking on the phone with Sarah, I recontacted UPS. They will be picking up the package of the damaged laserdisc player tomorrow, and I have opened  a dispute with Paypal . UPS will get me a retreival slip for them for the dispute just incase I need it to be refunded, ect. Sarah had mentioned something about you being unable to do anything on this due to me not purchasing you're $2.00 insurance plan, and I discussed this with paypal after I opened the dispute.

 That reasoning wont hold up with ebay and  Paypal, because UPS already insures all packages up to $100.00 and ebay and paypal require the seller to take every measure reasonably possible to make sure the item gets to the buyer safely. If you would have been paid $2.00 you would have been overpaid for shipping/over charging for it. Everyone , most def including Paypal,ebay, and my bank, already know this. If you need to, please review their policy for this on ebays help area.

 Dont be surprised if buyer pays for UPS shipping and no insurance,since the package,and thus the seller, are automatically covered by UPS. The insurance claim will have to be between UPS and you. As far as my end goes, I am more then willing to settle this dispute with you in a positive way, but the "non-responsibility" bit I was told over the phone by Sarah leads me to believe you may not try to make good on your end. I would much rather have either my money back in full, or a item delivered as described in the auction, then have this turn bitter and ugly and have to resort to bumping this to a claim and leave a negative feedback. I would be more then happy to close the dispute once either of the positive outcomes I mentioned happen. I would rather this end positively and would prefer  a working replacement, so we can continue to do business on my other auction purchase with you, and possibly in the future on another purchase.

On the dispute I have listed messages for you, but since I do not know who will be handling the dispute on your end, I am providing those messages to you here:

3/19/2009 11:27 PDT
Item was delivered damage and unusable. As I said over the phone with you I will contact UPS again to come pick up the package. Please be aware I won another auction of yours for another one of these, but until this issue is resolved, I dont think it would be wise to make payment for the other item due to this.

3/19/2009 11:36 PDT
I have contacted UPS, they will be picking up the package tomorrow and taking it back with them. The parts that had busted out of the laserdisc player I will place in a zip lock bag to include with/in the package. The UPS agent said to not seal the package back up until the driver arrives to get it, so I can make sure he sees the zip baggie with parts in the package so he can explain to his supervisor what they are.

3/19/2009 12:35 PDT

Also, just to let you know, and do not take this as a insult, but honestly you guys did not pack this well enough to survive shipping.I know at recycle shops for electronics sometimes you get into the habit of just using one standard for any item you ship, but that standard you used for this item obviously failed. On about all Laserdisc players, esp dual side players, they are large, and heavy, with way too many complex parts inside to be able to be skimped on packing. They are built tough to survive long use, but that same toughness def does not apply to massive abuse like being dropped during shipping if not protected by good packing. Shock will kill them if not packed well. The packaging you used , the box only allowed 1 to 1 and a half inch's of clearance on any given side of the LD player to have packing in between, and the packing you used was just crumbled up brown packing paper.
This would not be good enough protection against any kind of real bump or shock during transit. In other words, this dispute might possibly would have been avoided if better packing conditions were met before shipping it to me. But that's only if the player was working perfectly before shipping. If it was unknowingly abused prior to being shipped to me, shipping issues could have exacerbated that damage too. I know of a major repair shop that deals in Laserdisc equipment, Bayview Electronics. Since you still have more of these players for sale, you may want to contact them so you can understand how to pack them better for shipping so they will survive transit. They might be able to offer you some testing tips too so you can better check the players before selling them, so you wont risk selling what may seem like undamaged items that may actually be. Bayview can be reached at (360) 867-1311. I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving some care tips to help assist you in testing and making sure you ship these safer next time. If not them you can also check the AV forums for care tips on LD players.

3/19/2009 13:20 PDT
Please be aware, as everyone knows UPS automatically insures packages for the seller for up to $100.00 before charging extra for more coverage. This is why I chose UPS in the shipping methods you had listed. Paying extra for insurance was moot due to UPS automatically offering it. The claim with UPS will have to be handled on your end once they pick up the package, because you are the seller/shipper. I can not be involved in the process once it leaves my home and is back in UPS hands. They said they will send you the required paperwork for this matter. Their process is: They will pick up the package tomorrow, package sent to be inspected by their supervisor or claims, they will notify the shipper/seller,being you, and go forth with claim if they feel you packed the item well enough,ect. Any paperwork must be handled on your end, the claim/refund, ect will be provided to you by UPS, not to me, and all the paperwork for the claim must be handled by you. Once it leaves my home back to them it is out of my hands and in yours to deal with.

[Michael Helgeson]

Note that during the dispute being filed I inspected the packing more,ect, and just realized this was either broken to begin with and this wa s a scam, or just really poorly packed and  the seller knew no better. I finished the dispute messages,ect. So anyway after sending that to Sarah, ect... I come across a obscure email a little bit later. Its from Debra Hamilton at erecycler and reads as follows:
"Debra Hamilton" <debra@erecycler.net>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Sarah Cox" <Sarah@erecycler.net>
Cc:
amakusashiro666@yahoo.com
Sarah:

We have over 100,000 accumulated positive feedbacks.  With that many shipments over the last 10 years, we are obviously very careful with our packaging; up to the point of insisting that UPS and USPS perform random checks several times each year to ensure to their satisfaction that we are complying with all recommended practices.  (It's random, so, no, you won't have advance notice.  They'll just show up.  :-)  A bidding account with only 68 feedbacks and open for less than a year would not have that extensive experience and support to draw upon. I would say his comments on the packing quality can be dismissed.  Don't you find it rather humorous that he is telling us the claims procedure after the unit is picked up?  As if we aren't fully aware of how extremely time consuming and costly it is for any shipper to complete any insurance claim, regardless of insuring entity.  Which is the part of the reason most sellers indicate in their auctions that they are not responsible for shipping damage to uninsured packages, and the very reason each of those sellers assesses a fee for insurance coverage, regardless of item value.  Guess he figures we won't notice that he just validated our position, eh?  While we will let the PayPal and eBay account people handle him, there are two major points demonstrated here that I want you to understand better so it may help to spot problem bidders in the future.

Point One:  According to eBay's own rules of account usage, by placing his bid, this person agreed to our terms of auction, all of them.  By declining the offered coverage in the checkout, the bidder chose to accept the risk of shipping damage--again, according to eBay's own rules of account usage.  Now the bidder is stating that he does not have to comply with his contracted obligations, can do whatever he wishes, and can force us to do whatever he wishes.  His comments below seem to indicate the very worst kind of bidder, one who tells a seller that they HAVE to allow their auctions to be held hostage or else be subjected to retaliatory feedback.  You should watch for those with less than 100 feedbacks and who start off with threats, or INSIST that you make exceptions for them, or become angry if you don't do what they want THIS-VERY-DAMN-MINUTE!  There will be a very few higher feedback account holders who might do the same, but eBay has weeded most of them out by now.  Part of why we prefer email contact is so that when we pick up on them, there is documentation for the account manager to help keep it that way.  Now, this guy has already publicly broadcast his side of the conversation, so you don't need to worry about proving what was said.  Otherwise, though, make immediate notes.  The longer you wait, the more detail you will forget and detail is what keeps it clean and keeps eBay happy, don't ya know.

Point Two:  What he is implying, also, is that it is somehow we who are dishonorable simply because we adhere to our published terms and policies.  Terms that the bidder agreed to abide by, but on which he is now trying to renege.  There are people out there who know all the 'angles' to working the eBay and PayPal systems.  Unfortunately, you will get more exposure to that than any one person should endure, especially with electronics auctions.  I do not want you to become discouraged.  Stopping bad bidders is easier than you might think if you just pay attention...and tell it to eBay.  They will help, I promise!  There are many, many good, honest people who are just trying to have some fun or legitimately save some money.  Those relatively few others are always taken care of, sooner or later. May not be you who takes care of them personally, but all information you can give to eBay will be added up with the rest and, eventually, is usually enough.  I firmly believe our policies and procedures are fair, open, and explicitly clear.  The vast majority of our bidders believe that, too, so don't let a few bumpy ones put scratches on your shining armor.  We really are one of the good guys. :-)

I had already forwarded the information below to our eBay account manager.  I will also be forwarding it to our PayPal account manager to see what other steps can be taken to protect us from actions like his.  Please do not correspond with him further.  For future permanent reference, once a PayPal claim has been filed, all communication must then be routed through that service.  What I want you to do now is make notes on the clues to watch for from the beginning to head off ones like this and be ready to let me (and eBay) know when you see them coming.

--
Debra Hamilton
Administrative Services
Erecycler LLC
2747 Oakland Ave
Garland, TX 75041
972.487.6800 ext 305 VOICE
972.487.6803 FAX
Debra@erecycler.net 
www.erecycler.net

This e-mail message and all documents which accompany it are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader is not the intended recipient, any disclosure, distribution or other use of this e-mail message is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender immediately. This material is copyrighted to Erecycler LLC.  Thank you.

Nothing in this message is intended to constitute an Electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act (UETA) or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act ("E-Sign") unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message.

---------------------------------------------------------
Right here the seller has basically made their intentions clear. Deborah has even instructed puppet to not resolve the issue basically. I called Paypal, made them very aware of this email. They insisted from this moment on bump to a claim. So I have done so. From then on into the evening until now I  and Quoth have been scouring info on this seller and I have now realized this is indeed a common practice for them. They are full fledged scammers. It common practice to send broken items, and when the buyer trie sto return them,they refuse the package, and try to deny all claims.
They sell broken items often and always blame UPS. On their profile they even make a statement that they are not responsible for damaged items even if they pack poorly. They also openly state basically their pride in harassing buyers who dispute with them. On my package the box was too tight, the padding just thin crumbled layers of packing paper, the kind you dont use to ship 16 pound LD players with.

Here you can see in these pics the shoddy packing used:

[Michael Helgeson]

So anyway, you have the pics, now for the dirty details of their profile. Check the details on their profile:







You can clearly see so much f*ckery stated on there that goes completely against ebay and paypal policy.
Now for the dirt on how many they have f*cked, there's a ton of it to be sure:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/326/RipOff0326596.htm
http://hideit.siteexperts.com/forums/getMessage.asp?m_id=86605
http://hideit.siteexperts.com/forums/getMessage.asp?m_id=86363
http://www.bbb.org/dallas/business-reviews/computers-supls-parts-service/erecycleronline-llc-in-garland-tx-90039250
http://www.bbb.org/dallas/business-reviews/waste-reduction-disposal-recycle-equipment/erecycler-llc-in-garland-tx-90016377
http://www.siteexperts.com/forums/viewConverse.asp?d_id=19389
http://siteexperts.com/ebay/bad1.htm
http://siteexperts.com/ebay/bob.htm
http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=erecycleronline&Dirn=Received+by&FPos=ON

These people have been f*cking buyers for the longest now. Hell they earned on the prior business name a F- from the BBB. These people should not be selling on ebay anymore. At any rate, you come across this seller, avoid like the plague. No matter how much a great deal it may seem, odds are high they will f*ck you. Remember people according to Debbie, they are the "Good Guys". So was Chucky..........

[SignOfZeta]

This...sucks. LD players typically have to padded extremely well to not destroy themselves during shipping due to their heavy/fragile nature. Those people suck.

But seriously, how is that that I've been buying stuff off eBay for well over a decade and have never once been screwed, whereas it seems like every single thing you buy is a "scam". Its turned you into the eBay Ghost of Vengeance. Are you just really bad at identifying bad sellers before hand, or do you just always buy the really cheap stuff? If its just a matter of luck then you luck is really really bad.

BTW, there is no way I'm going to read that entire three act play up there, but I think I got the basic swing of it.

As for why I'm replying to one of your posts for the first time in ages, this is because you are for some reason posting as a "guest" and maybe you won't be able to misquote my post in a reply, delete my original post, and then lock the thread this time.

[guyjin]

Beat that dead horse!

[Sinistron]

As for why I'm replying to one of your posts for the first time in ages, this is because you are for some reason posting as a "guest" and maybe you won't be able to misquote my post in a reply, delete my original post, and then lock the thread this time.

"Now you can't write back! so screw you Mike!"  LOL.  Great to see you're still proudly displaying that mangina.  You sound like the school abusee shouting down the empty hall after receiving a whirly in the toilet 15 minutes prior.
As for "delete my original post"- is that even possible?

What a goober.

[quoth09]

This...sucks. LD players typically have to padded extremely well to not destroy themselves during shipping due to their heavy/fragile nature. Similar to if say, someone was to ship the soul of power metal shooting. Those people suck.

But seriously, how is that that I've been buying stuff off eBay for well over a decade and have gotten screwed quite often, but never post about it, whereas it seems like every single thing you post about eBay is where a "scam" has occurred? Its turned you into the eBay Vengeance Avenger. Thank you for posting about this and identifying bad sellers before hand, so I know not to buy from them in the future. If its just a matter of luck, then I hope to never have yours.

BTW, there is no way I'm going to read that entire three act play up there, but I think I got the basic swing of it.

As for why I'm replying to one of your posts for the first time in ages, this is because you are for some reason posting as a "guest" and I'm clueless as to why that is because of my power metal shooting soul, but maybe you won't be able to misquote my post in a reply, delete my original post, and then lock the thread this time.

but maybe you won't be able to misquote my post in a reply

No, but I can! 

[SignOfZeta]

"Now you can't write back! so screw you Mike!" 

Can guests not post replies? I was not aware of that. The last thing I would do is post in a forum that wasn't a two-way means of communication for all involved.

I mentioned the deleting of posts thing because this is what happened to me. I don't know how its done, or who actually did it, but there was a thread a long while ago where I posted something and the next day the only evidence of my post was a reply in one of Mike's posts that looked like it had been through some sort of Beavis and Butthead filter. The thread was subsequently locked. Mike has a rich history of locking his own threads when he can't cope with other opinions. I don't know why someone like that doesn't just make a web page or blog or something. The whole point of forums is for people to talk to each other.

So what is the point of posting as a guest, and why is he posting as a guest anyway?

[nectarsis]

LOL you been here long enough to guess that GUEST means their no longer a member here; closed acct, banned, etc.

[quoth09]

Zeta, you truly are clueless. Mike is gone and isn't coming back. The above post was BEFORE he left.
He's a guest because his account is closed. He won't be posting.
Go back to your power metal shooting.

[SignOfZeta]

Zeta, you truly are clueless. Mike is gone and isn't coming back. The above post was BEFORE he left.
He's a guest because his account is closed. He won't be posting.
Go back to your power metal shooting.

You're right, I am clueless. Forgive me for not stalking the guy thoroughly. When I clicked the "Show unread posts since last visit" this post showed up. Its only five days older than my reply. I guess we're in a new era in a week. So...did it change to "guest" after he left, or did he post after he "left"?

BTW, why did he "leave"?

[Joe Redifer]

You can read it from Michael's own keyboard here:
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=1350.msg110371#msg110371

His original username was Michael Helgeson and then he changed to to PC ENGINE HELL.  When the account was closed it reverted back to MH and his posts say "guest" since technically that user doesn't exist in the database.

[SignOfZeta]

Wow. That looks...complicated.

[esteban]

You can read it from Michael's own keyboard here:
https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=1350.msg110371#msg110371

His original username was Michael Helgeson and then he changed to to PC ENGINE HELL.  When the account was closed it reverted back to MH and his posts say "guest" since technically that user doesn't exist in the database.

OMG, I totally missed that. I was wondering where Mr. Helgeson was.