Author Topic: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.  (Read 67908 times)

ceti alpha

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2009, 03:29:27 AM »
For a split second, from the first screen comparison of Chiki Chiki Boys, it was looking like the Genny was going to win it, but not so much. The PCE version is more colourful with better detailing.


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spenoza

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2009, 03:39:07 AM »
We should get a few duds in here, too. I kinda wonder if we're not hand-picking the PCE winners, in a sense.
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nat

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2009, 05:22:34 AM »
Chiki Chiki Boys looks ridiculous all smooshed horizontally like that. I know that's the "native resolution" but that's not what you see when you play it on your TV.

Tom

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2009, 06:18:47 AM »
Chiki Chiki Boys looks ridiculous all smooshed horizontally like that. I know that's the "native resolution" but that's not what you see when you play it on your TV.


 That's right. PCE low res has a pixel aspect ratio of 1.125 and Genesis high res mode has a pixel aspect ratio of 0.9. Multiply the horizontal res by their counter parts to get correct image size. (Make sure the images are in 24bit RGB mode).




 Both images are 33% larger because showing the Genesis pic at 0.9 aspect ratio in the native screen shot res would have discarded detail/pixels. The formula is X=X * (scale_factor * pixel_aspect_ratio) and Y=Y*scale_factor. Scale_factor was 1.33.

nat

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2009, 07:15:55 AM »
Much better. I think any further screen comparisons should be adjusted like this to make reference more accurate. Nobody plays Turbo games using a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, so showing comparisons shots that way seems stupid.

Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2009, 07:19:42 AM »
We should get a few duds in here, too. I kinda wonder if we're not hand-picking the PCE winners, in a sense.


These aren't all duds, but they're all not hand-picked winners. They're also ALL stolen :shock: from hardcoregaming101-















Much better. I think any further screen comparisons should be adjusted like this to make reference more accurate. Nobody plays Turbo games using a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, so showing comparisons shots that way seems stupid.


There are factors other than aspect ratio to compare when judging strictly by screen shots, which can't be accurately judged when the images are re-sized. Otherwise we might as well only use only shots captured from hardware. I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements. It's not like our computer monitors and the resolutions they're set at are perfectly proportioned.

Chiki Chiki Boys PCE looks weird because the developer adjusted the aspect ratio of some elements while leaving others pixel per pixel from the arcade.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 07:34:25 AM by Black Tiger »
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nat

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2009, 07:40:46 AM »
There are factors other than aspect ratio to compare when judging strictly by screen shots, which can't be accurately judged when the images are re-sized.

Like?

Quote
Otherwise we might as well only use only shots captured from hardware. I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements.

Which is virtually every Turbo game that uses the lower resolution. The developers knew these images were going to be stretched to fill the TV screen.

Tom

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2009, 08:44:45 AM »
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I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements.

 That's reasonable. Showing both (if needed) should be done. I kept the pics small for bandwidth reasons of the thread, but if we wanted unfiltered scaled pics of both (for aspect ratio correction), the final res would have to be something like 864xYYY for 'nearest neighbor'.

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Chiki Chiki Boys PCE looks weird because the developer adjusted the aspect ratio of some elements while leaving others pixel per pixel from the arcade.

 I updated the image for the PCE one. I had accidentally used the same vertical value as the Genesis pic. The updated pic is less 'fat'.

awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2009, 10:54:45 AM »
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We should get a few duds in here, too. I kinda wonder if we're not hand-picking the PCE winners, in a sense.

In a way i am, I'm picking the better looking games from 93 to 95, but i saw a pattern as well and my next two games were going to be Parodius and Strider. If there is a game that looks better on the snes or genesis post 93, let me know, thats what ill do next.


Quote
Chiki Chiki Boys looks ridiculous all smooshed horizontally like that. I know that's the "native resolution" but that's not what you see when you play it on your TV.


Some want the pictures altered, others want them untouched, i understand your point but lets take chiki boys, not only would i have to do every thing I'm already doing but i would have to change the resolution of both the pce and genesis game.
If we really want the shots to appear as they do on a TV we would also need to adjust the color, which i think is as important as the aspect, because none of these screens look like this on a TV in relation to one another(saturation,hue shifting etc)

What i could do in the future is to take fewer shots and adjust the resolution of one of the games for a more accurate comparison or have some one else alter them and have two sets like has been mentioned.

Keranu

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2009, 11:10:03 AM »
Wow, for the first two screenshots of Chiki Chiki Boys, I thought it was going to be a clear win for the Genesis, but after that, the PCE shots tend to look significantly better.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

nat

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2009, 11:43:03 AM »

What i could do in the future is to take fewer shots and adjust the resolution of one of the games for a more accurate comparison or have some one else alter them and have two sets like has been mentioned.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. When both the games use the same resolution (or close to the same) like the Castlevania pics earlier in the thread, changing the res is kind of pointless. But with a game like Chiki, where the aspect difference is so drastic, it really is needed.

Tom

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2009, 11:52:52 AM »
Wow, for the first two screenshots of Chiki Chiki Boys, I thought it was going to be a clear win for the Genesis, but after that, the PCE shots tend to look significantly better.

 Are you sure we're looking at the same pics? :P

 The first pic.

 PCE version: the water fall looks better, the far back stalactites and stalagmites have more colors, the leaves on the side, and some additional tiles. Genesis version: very basic/tiled water fall and rocks for that column, missing column with leaves, less color overall.

 Second pic.

 PCE version: just the whole back ground image of the broken temple thingy. Much more details and colors. More colors on the boss too.
 Genesis version: reduced and redrawn tile set of the temple - very basic, lacks detail and colors. Colors on the boss are missing.

 I was surprised by this game comparison. From memory, I thought the Genesis on par - but even single pic the PCE version looks much better.

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What i could do in the future is to take fewer shots and adjust the resolution of one of the games for a more accurate comparison or have some one else alter them and have two sets like has been mentioned.

 Nah, keep doing lots of shots like that. Any one of us can alter them for you afterwards if needed.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 11:55:10 AM by Tom »

Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2009, 02:29:27 PM »
There are factors other than aspect ratio to compare when judging strictly by screen shots, which can't be accurately judged when the images are re-sized.


Like?


Like the actual graphics (shading, detail, color, etc). All you can judge from distorted images with added artifacts is the general shapes of things and which general objects are or aren't included.

Here's a section of the Mega Drive Chiki Chiki Boys shot. The left pic is the raw emulated screen shot, the right is the aspect ratio corrected shot that Tom made. Each one features the exact same section, enlarged four times to the nearest neighbor.



The full Mega Drive shot uncropped, has 35 colors in the original, and 18900 colors in the 4:3 aspect ratio pic.


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Otherwise we might as well only use only shots captured from hardware. I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements.


Which is virtually every Turbo game that uses the lower resolution. The developers knew these images were going to be stretched to fill the TV screen.


I don't think that any SNES comparison shots will be any higher resolution than 256 wide PCE screen shots. As for the handful of games that are on both PCE and MD, many of the MD games are also 256 pixels wide.

People who say that all developers made games with the same set destination display method in mind give them too much credit. Especially with PCE games, developers picked and chose various ways to depict various aspects of each game. Chiki Chiki Boys is a good example. Much of it was squished to the PCE port's resolution's proportionate size, while other parts were left pixel for pixel the same as the 384 x 224 pixels arcade version. In the end you'll always have parts of a screen that aren't displayed the way it was originally intended. But that's not always a bad thing.

The other thing is that there is no standard display mode for platforms like NES, Genesis and SNES hardware. Each hardware revision displays a different picture (& sometimes sound) and they have different available output methods, ranging from RF-only to RGB. Dithering is the most common aspect argued to be designed strictly for RF display, but most 16-bit era arcade games use it even though they're all intended for RGB display.
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2009, 02:42:16 PM »
Quote
Nah, keep doing lots of shots like that. Any one of us can alter them for you afterwards if needed.


Sounds good.

Parodius, the graphics in this game were not done as well as in other arcade ports such as chiki chiki boys, forgoten worlds and dynasty warriors on the pc engine.

                pce                                               snes










« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 02:58:39 PM by awack »

ceti alpha

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2009, 03:34:44 PM »
Yup. The SNES is definitely up on the PCE here.


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