I'm not at all surprised that this conversation has been distilled to this:
"The PCE can't do transparencies."
"Yes it can, with flickering, just don't play if you are epileptic and you'll be fine."
"Well, those look like shit."
"Well, I never liked real transparencies anyway. They are cheap."
The perfect defense of a console's inability to do something; "I never liked that anyway".
First of all my point is that there isn't just "hardware effects" and "nothing". The PCE can do all kinds of transparency effects and like I said, the flicker style is only
one way (
which looks perfect when done right). And just because the SNES can do one type of transparency effect through hardware, it isn't without its own limitations.
Too often SNES games use transparencies just for the sake of it or as a substitute for original graphics art and Square was one of the worst offenders. I've never said that I don't like "real" transparencies, in fact I said that there is so such thing. Cheap transparency effects are cheap.
The
effect isn't even a transparency in most cases, really the
transparency is being used to depict the effect and there are many ways to achieve an effect. It's when people lose sight of this that games wind up with transparencies for the sake of transparencies.
While you may have preferred actual animation to a Metroid super bomb, the reality is that most people thought that was cool as hell when they saw it. Sure, its not critical to gameplay, but it is somewhat intertwined. The main use of a super bomb is to reveal breakable blocks or hidden items, and the way the circle expands out does this in a way where...well, I'm not sure it would be as cool with animations. Would the smoke and fire obscure the items the bomb would reveal until they disappeared? It wouldn't have the same "reveal" to it.
I won't go into theoretical substitutes right now, but the same effect could be done the way that Vasteel does a transparent layer. It may look like crap to you, but the reality is that most people thought that was cool as hell when they saw it. But instead of a single color circle, it could use detailed tile art.
As for Mode 7, I seem to remember Super Mario Kart outselling virtually every PCE racing game ever made combined (do not take that literally) so while Mode 7 is "cheap and tacky" to hard core PCE fans, the reality is that it allowed for a gameplay mechanic that obliterated all the Pole Position/Outrun systems that had been in use since Night Driver when the power (and expertise) didn't exists to do polygons in a usable manor on home consoles. Mario Kart was vastly more playable and competitive than any racing game ever made up until that point, and its very nature simply cannot be duplicated on PCE because it had you actually moving around a map, instead of just showing you an animation of what might be a single point of view from what might be a map. SMK was to racing what SFII was to fighting games. In fact, Super Mario Kart easily remained the best/only competitive home racing experience until Ridge Racer was released for PS, and that required two consoles and...still wasn't as fun...but I digress. Now, I'm not saying that Mode 7 alone made SMK what it was (Mode 7 made several lesser racing games go) but it was essential, and it cannot be duplicated on PCE.
This is why I made the distinction between pseudo 3D environments and abstract pixely shapes. It's just like when later consoles use 3D graphics for 2D gameplay vs 3D graphics used for 3D gameplay. But even the SNES couldn't do SMK and required extra hardware added into the cart.
I'm sure you probably think that Chase H.Q. or Outrun are just as great at being skill intensive two player racing games. I might point out that they are single player. This is where you will say that multi-player racing is a tacky cheat anyway. So, I guess there is just no convincing some people. If that's the case, then I'm talking to a fanatical brick wall, so f*ck it. I might as well be arguing global warming on the 700 Club's blog.
I'm not a fan of racing games, but I had a lot of fun with Final Lap Twin. But Even spit screen in that style of racing game isn't the same as games with 360 movement like SMK.
Here's what I think: PCE developers would have LOVED to have had access to Mode 7 and transparencies when they were making these games we love so much, and if they had you wouldn't be arguing against them...or if you were, you'd be doing it on a Mega Drive forum. If the guys who programed LoX could make that water actually transparent instead of spazzy flickering stuff they would do it in an instant and never look back. Maybe you wouldn't, but they would, and nobody would have complained.
PCE developers didn't even know what the PCE could already do. Every developer who knew so many tricks still seemed clueless for others. If the PCE had had Mode 7 and transparencies, the CD games would look much different than SNES cart games. They'd be used when necessary much more and as filler much less.
I don't know anyone else who finds the flicker style transparencies in the LoX games to be "spazzy".
EDIT:A couple things I keep forgetting to mention.
Most SNES games use "spazzy" flicker transparencies because 1: they look fine and 2: the SNES "hardware" transparencies have restrictions.
So, I guess there is just no convincing some people. If that's the case, then I'm talking to a fanatical brick wall, so f*ck it. I might as well be arguing global warming on the 700 Club's blog.
This thread was simply comparing screens of released versions as-is. peonpiate was the one who, whether he understood or not what we were comparing, had to tell us how unfair it is to look at screen shots.
There are only a few people here who ridicule some of the weaker versions of games. If you'd been reading all along you'd know that those same people make fun of weak PCE ports as much as or more than those on other consoles. Bonk 3 CD and Golden Axe are a couple recent examples.
You were the one who sat back and only contributed this much to the discussion once you felt that the SNES' supremacy was being questioned. At the same time you're calling everyone else blind fanboys.
The only reason awack compares things like animation sometimes is to show some of the strengths of some PCE games, since the gaming community overall has been perpetuating stereotypes that the PCE can't touch [insert preffered rival console].
