Author Topic: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.  (Read 68374 times)

awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #465 on: May 10, 2009, 01:25:54 PM »
OK, graphically speaking, here are the two games considered by many to be the best on each system, i got the screenshots of DKC from VGM, i tried to match them up the best i could, some obviously don't match up well.

                     snes                                                pce








Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #466 on: May 10, 2009, 04:35:30 PM »
The technical quality of BS's bgs is good (the actual art varies), but the sprites are pretty fugly. Of course, the same can be said of DKC. :wink:

I'd put BS's graphics behind at least 100 other PCE games.

DKC uses cgi to render some terrible art. It does move around some backgrounds and animated sprites and does some neat special effects, all with a lot of color... but what's the point if the style is so lame?

I'd also put DKC's graphics behind at least 100 other SFC games, but most people don't really care about what the actual art looks like.
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Tatsujin

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #467 on: May 10, 2009, 05:07:46 PM »
so true.
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #468 on: May 10, 2009, 06:14:47 PM »
I usually don't give my opinion of the comparisons Ive done, but this one is pretty obvious, i have to go with Shadowgate.

DKC has very nice subtle shading due to a process called debabelizing i think, but the out come in this case is slightly boring and forgettable.

Shadowgate, has a very organic and tactile look to its graphics, and amazing detail with no repeating tiles, it can look a bit messy and the sprites do suck. I added a few more shots of some nice looking areas.





                   

Joe Redifer

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #469 on: May 10, 2009, 08:16:07 PM »
I definitely do like the fact that there are no repeated tiles in Beyond Shadowgate.  I wish more games took this approach, even if they were pixel art like most games are.  BS looks like digitized artwork/paintings.

Arkhan

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #470 on: May 10, 2009, 08:49:35 PM »
BS is on a system w/ less power than an Amiga and compares to it in quality and presentation.

I always thought that game,while it does look kinda dopey, is still impressive.

Kind of like those indiana jones and monkey island games... goofy but fancy?

If that makes any ounce of sense.



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very
very

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Tatsujin

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #471 on: May 10, 2009, 08:49:45 PM »
BS looks like digitized artwork/paintings.

that's probably because it IS (just) digitized artwork/paintings. not?
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Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #472 on: May 11, 2009, 01:50:01 AM »
I don't know if the first DKC has many, but there are boss bgs or maybe npc bgs that aren't repeated tiles. It'd be interesting to see a couple of those compare to BS.

Back in the day the final blow that really took the mystical illusion out of DKC's "32+ bit" graphics for me was how well they translated to the b&w Gameboy, even though the media and Nintendo led everyone to believe that only the SNES had the raw power to harness the technology that reproduced "Toy Story" (the film) quality images.
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #473 on: May 11, 2009, 04:22:22 AM »
Quote
Back in the day the final blow that really took the mystical illusion out of DKC's "32+ bit" graphics for me was how well they translated to the b&w Gameboy, even though the media and Nintendo led everyone to believe that only the SNES had the raw power to harness the technology that reproduced "Toy Story" (the film) quality images.

Have you seen the Gameboy Color port? I put up some comparison shots of it and the original snes version, the GBC shots suck but were the best i could find, still, it gives you a good idea of how well it turned out.
             

             GBC                                           SNES






« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 04:25:13 AM by awack »

spenoza

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #474 on: May 11, 2009, 06:48:40 AM »
I like the BS backgrounds, but I don't think they made optimal use of the PCE color palette. They seem a little more dithered than I would think they would need to be.
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Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #475 on: May 11, 2009, 08:56:12 AM »
Quote
Back in the day the final blow that really took the mystical illusion out of DKC's "32+ bit" graphics for me was how well they translated to the b&w Gameboy, even though the media and Nintendo led everyone to believe that only the SNES had the raw power to harness the technology that reproduced "Toy Story" (the film) quality images.
Have you seen the Gameboy Color port? I put up some comparison shots of it and the original snes version, the GBC shots suck but were the best i could find, still, it gives you a good idea of how well it turned out.

I used to have a multi-game Famicom cart with that GBC DKC game on it. :P

Pretty scary how close they are. The GBC version actually looks better in that purple cave scene.
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #476 on: May 12, 2009, 07:14:44 AM »
Quote
that's probably because it IS (just) digitized artwork/paintings. not?
From my understanding the BG graphics were handled by an outside art studio who hand painted them and were later scanned into a computer.


Quote
I like the BS backgrounds, but I don't think they made optimal use of the PCE color palette. They seem a little more dithered than I would think they would need to be.
The BG graphics use more colors than any pce game that i know of, single objects use up to 50 colors, so why the dithered look, the best way i can put it is to imagine taking a digital paint brush, dip and swirl it into the pce color palette(512 colors) then take the brush and drag it across the screen, what you will end up with some times are weird color combinations that don't mix well, in my opinion, this actually looks really good through composite on a CRT TV, which is what i use.

Quote
I used to have a multi-game Famicom cart with that GBC DKC game on it.
I'm not a big DKC fan but that would a interesting piece to have.



Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #477 on: May 12, 2009, 12:59:31 PM »
From my understanding the BG graphics were handled by an outside art studio who hand painted them and were later scanned into a computer.


The bgs and cinemas look like they were done by the same artist who worked on other ICOM Sim games like Shapeshifter. They just did a better job converting them into TG-16 graphics.


Quote
The BG graphics use more colors than any pce game that i know of, single objects use up to 50 colors, so why the dithered look, the best way i can put it is to imagine taking a digital paint brush, dip and swirl it into the pce color palette(512 colors) then take the brush and drag it across the screen, what you will end up with some times are weird color combinations that don't mix well, in my opinion, this actually looks really good through composite on a CRT TV, which is what i use.


They just didn't bother to clean up the tiles. A good example is the color chunks on the mushrooms/fungus in this pic-



I'm guessing that they came up with a way to automatically convert single screens to <16 color 8 x 8 tiles, since some of the 16 x 16 corners have more than 16 colors... all while keeping the total number of tile palettes in check. It would've been nice to see the result if they used the same process for a game and cleaned up the tiles. The graphics don't look nearly as good proportionate to the number of colors as an average game, probably because of random color anomalies from converting the graphics and not cleaning them up.

It could be argued that the end result looks like it has photo grain, but it just looks more like dithering to me. It certainly suits this style of game more than any other.

I actually thought that the bgs looked kinda messy and not-so-colorful through composite the first time I played it. It looks much better in S-Video to me.


Quote
I'm not a big DKC fan but that would a interesting piece to have.


Same here, but after the novelty wore off I eventually sold it. The same cart had Street Fighter IV on it. :P
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #478 on: May 12, 2009, 02:40:29 PM »
Quote
It could be argued that the end result looks like it has photo grain, but it just looks more like dithering to me. It certainly suits this style of game more than any other.
You hit the nail on the head with this, i have seen a similar look with handrawn art on posters.

What we have is a game that has a huge amount of detail and a very large number of colors per BG object/tile, in the end it doesn't look like an average 16 bit game, is that good or bad, well, even though i think it looks better than DKC and i would put it in the top ten of pce games, i actually like the sharp and clean look of games like Winds of Thunder, Rondo of blood etc.


Well, it looks like we are getting to the end of this comparison thing, here is some of what is left.
Hit the ice
Daisenpuu
Heavy Unit
Atomic Robo Kid
Kick Boxing
Monster Lair
Langrisser
Ys III
Ys IV
Exile II
Bonanza Bro
Snatcher





« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 03:23:19 PM by awack »

Tom

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #479 on: May 12, 2009, 03:32:49 PM »
There's Ninja Spirit for the arcade and Amiga.