Author Topic: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.  (Read 68389 times)

Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #480 on: May 12, 2009, 03:36:13 PM »
There's Ninja Spirit for the arcade and Amiga.

And Gameboy. :wink:

I think that awack was planning to stick to PCE vs SNES and Genesis comparisons.
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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #481 on: May 12, 2009, 04:49:55 PM »
Quote
It could be argued that the end result looks like it has photo grain, but it just looks more like dithering to me. It certainly suits this style of game more than any other.
You hit the nail on the head with this, i have seen a similar look with handrawn art on posters.

What we have is a game that has a huge amount of detail and a very large number of colors per BG object/tile, in the end it doesn't look like an average 16 bit game, is that good or bad, well, even though i think it looks better than DKC and i would put it in the top ten of pce games, i actually like the sharp and clean look of games like Winds of Thunder, Rondo of blood etc.


Well, it looks like we are getting to the end of this comparison thing, here is some of what is left.
Hit the ice
Daisenpuu
Heavy Unit
Atomic Robo Kid
Kick Boxing
Monster Lair
Langrisser
Ys III
Ys IV
Exile II
Bonanza Bro
Snatcher







Ys 4??  It never came out for MD, probably some unfinished version laying around somewhere.

Anyways, don't forget Black Hole Assault!

awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #482 on: May 12, 2009, 07:23:22 PM »
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Ys 4??  It never came out for MD, probably some unfinished version laying around somewhere.
I was thinking of Ys IV Mask of the Sun for the SNES.


Joe Redifer

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #483 on: May 12, 2009, 09:14:30 PM »
Quote from: awack

The BG graphics use more colors than any pce game that i know of, single objects use up to 50 colors


Say what?  Out of all the screens you posted, most have fewer than 75 colors.  Only a couple even hit 80 and the maximum is 82.  I'm sure that there are several more PCE games that use more colors.  There's just gotta be.  If not, then that is truly pathetic on the part of PCE game developers.

Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #484 on: May 13, 2009, 01:53:24 AM »
Quote from: awack

The BG graphics use more colors than any pce game that i know of, single objects use up to 50 colors


Say what?  Out of all the screens you posted, most have fewer than 75 colors.  Only a couple even hit 80 and the maximum is 82.  I'm sure that there are several more PCE games that use more colors.  There's just gotta be.  If not, then that is truly pathetic on the part of PCE game developers.

Some sprite heavy BS shots pass 100. LoXII's bosses are in the 90's and I think that it was Tokimeki Memorial (another game with untouched digitized painted bgs) that also has 100+ color screens.
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Necromancer

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #485 on: May 13, 2009, 03:19:45 AM »
Well, it looks like we are getting to the end of this comparison thing, here is some of what is left.
Hit the ice
Daisenpuu
Heavy Unit
Atomic Robo Kid
Kick Boxing
Monster Lair
Langrisser
Ys III
Ys IV
Exile II
Bonanza Bro
Snatcher

Don't forget Buster Bros. and Todd's Adventures in Slime World, graphical masterpieces both.
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #486 on: May 13, 2009, 07:37:33 AM »
Quote
Say what?  Out of all the screens you posted, most have fewer than 75 colors.  Only a couple even hit 80 and the maximum is 82.  I'm sure that there are several more PCE games that use more colors.  There's just gotta be.  If not, then that is truly pathetic on the part of PCE game developers.


Yes, as far as i know the BG graphics have more colors than any other pce game, most games have displayed information such as health, weapon, magic etc, there are also enemy and boss sprites, for example, one of the snes street fighter 2 shots that Black Tiger posted has 139 colors, but minus the opposing sprite and display info its reduced to 83.

With the exception of one shot, the DKC screens range from 59 to 107 colors (for the BG and one main Character sprite)

The shots below show nothing but the main characther and BG, if you don't limit yourself to just the BG and one sprite, the highest color count is just above 125 colors. Most of the screens i took range from 70 to 125 colors, but i tend to like the lower color count screens the most.



       112 colors


       97 colors


       100 colors



Quote
Some sprite heavy BS shots pass 100. LoXII's bosses are in the 90's and I think that it was Tokimeki Memorial (another game with untouched digitized painted bgs) that also has 100+ color screens.


I didn't know that LoXII went that high, thats cool. I have found many pce games that get to 100 colors and above, examples below.

Cotton
Dracula X
Tenchi O Kurau
Magical Chase
Fatal Fury 2/sp
Sol Moonarge

This is just what i can remember.


 


« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 08:11:09 AM by awack »

Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #487 on: May 13, 2009, 01:23:46 PM »
Yes, as far as i know the BG graphics have more colors than any other pce game, most games have displayed information such as health, weapon, magic etc, there are also enemy and boss sprites, for example, one of the snes street fighter 2 shots that Black Tiger posted has 139 colors, but minus the opposing sprite and display info its reduced to 83.


They may technically have a high number of individual colors onscreen, but the graphics aren't nearly so colorful. The first time I played through in composite, I actually thought that the bgs used only <16 colors total, the result of a quick conversion (using only a single palette for the tiles). I don't know if Magic Engine doesn't display the game correctly or if the process used to make the tiles just pads the overall color count with anomalies, but in the end they still look like low color graphics.

Here are those super high color shots in 16, 32 and 64 colors, along with the originals. The process I used to reduce these screenshots isn't the most efficient (one 32 color pics loses grass detail that the 16 color pic retained), but the results are still pretty telling. For the small amount of coloring differences (an element being greenish instead of yellowish), the 16 color pics still retain most of the detail and dithering.

A change as extreme as 100'ish colors down to as little as 16, or about an 85% reduction should've make them completely unrecognizable. But anyone looking at the computer screen from a foot away wouldn't notice the difference unless looking for it and the 64 color pics are basically identical (I only went as high as 64 to keep the doubling increments). Any tiny differences that a careful eye could pick out are only the result of the color reduction process I used.














The art's still pretty nice in most places (I'm not crazy about the towns), but BS doesn't look anywhere near as nice as a genuinely high colored PCE game (or many average colored ones) for a good reason.
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Lorfarius

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #488 on: May 13, 2009, 09:40:51 PM »
Looks like an Ultima game with those black gates  :D
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Necromancer

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #489 on: May 14, 2009, 03:06:39 AM »
A change as extreme as 100'ish colors down to as little as 16, or about an 85% reduction should've make them completely unrecognizable. But anyone looking at the computer screen from a foot away wouldn't notice the difference unless looking for it and the 64 color pics are basically identical (I only went as high as 64 to keep the doubling increments). Any tiny differences that a careful eye could pick out are only the result of the color reduction process I used.

I'd like to see some screen shots from legitimately high colored games after they've gone through the same color reduction process.  :pray:
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Black Tiger

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #490 on: May 14, 2009, 03:56:05 AM »
A change as extreme as 100'ish colors down to as little as 16, or about an 85% reduction should've make them completely unrecognizable. But anyone looking at the computer screen from a foot away wouldn't notice the difference unless looking for it and the 64 color pics are basically identical (I only went as high as 64 to keep the doubling increments). Any tiny differences that a careful eye could pick out are only the result of the color reduction process I used.

I'd like to see some screen shots from legitimately high colored games after they've gone through the same color reduction process.  :pray:

I'm at work right now, but I've already got a few examples ready to go at home. They basically look like b&w Gameboy games playing through a Super Gameboy.
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #491 on: May 14, 2009, 05:54:27 AM »
Quote
I'd like to see some screen shots from legitimately high colored games after they've gone through the same color reduction process. 

Do you mean the traditional use of color, clean non dithered look or super high color counts?

I did some of the DKC shots, i also added a Shadowgate shot at 16 colors, i have to split also.







with out any of the sprites, 73 colors


   32 colors


   16 colors


 again, no sprites, 117 colors


   64 colors


    16 colors                                             16 colors

Joe Redifer

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #492 on: May 14, 2009, 07:27:01 AM »
The characters in DKC are not sprites?

Necromancer

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #493 on: May 14, 2009, 08:17:36 AM »
The characters in DKC are not sprites?

He meant 'not counting the colors in the sprites', as there's 117 colors if you do include 'em.
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awack

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Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #494 on: May 14, 2009, 11:32:35 AM »
Sorry about that, i was in a hurry.

Like Necromancer said, the color count for all the screenshots, are for the backgrounds only.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 12:16:24 PM by awack »