PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.

[peonpiate]

Ive seen Lox 1 and 2 in motion, it looks good but not as good as SoM2 imo. Its all subjective though.

I think the PCE properly programmed can equal the SNES in alot of areas but not trounce it, unless you count the Arcade card which I dont [world heroes 2 screenshots come to mind]...if you do, you might aswell bring in the 32x for comparison and say its a Genesis.


PCE definately has the speed advantage over the SNES though. The snes cpu has always been a bad move on Nintendo's part, its to slow. Graghics, not counting mode 7 id say is almost even to the SNES. Almost since theres no built in parallax.

Sound ? CD addon yes, Hucard? not horrible but no contest here, Snes has it beat.

Genesis is the weakestdog here, sound sucks for the most part. Colors are handicapped to 64, it had speed and good developers though.

It would have been nice to have Mortal kombat 1 or 2 out on the PCE, id like to have seen it for comparison's sake.

[peonpiate]

Actually I guess im a ex-square fanboy aswell. I havnt touched thier shovelware since FF10 and the last time I bought a system solely for thier games was the Ps2 [for 10]. Since 7 thier quality is pretty shit and I dont keep track of it anymore. Thier snes games and FF7 [for the most part] were stellar though.

[nectarsis]

Ive seen Lox 1 and 2 in motion, it looks good but not as good as SoM2 imo. Its all subjective though.

I think the PCE properly programmed can equal the SNES in alot of areas but not trounce it, unless you count the Arcade card which I dont [world heroes 2 screenshots come to mind]...if you do, you might aswell bring in the 32x for comparison and say its a Genesis.


PCE definately has the speed advantage over the SNES though. The snes cpu has always been a bad move on Nintendo's part, its to slow. Graghics, not counting mode 7 id say is almost even to the SNES. Almost since theres no built in parallax.

Sound ? CD addon yes, Hucard? not horrible but no contest here, Snes has it beat.

Genesis is the weakestdog here, sound sucks for the most part. Colors are handicapped to 64, it had speed and good developers though.

It would have been nice to have Mortal kombat 1 or 2 out on the PCE, id like to have seen it for comparison's sake.

Ahhhhhhh but we compare with the Sega CD as well so the Arcade card should be fair game.   32x..I thought you wanted to HELP your case lol.

[Black Tiger]

I think the PCE properly programmed can equal the SNES in alot of areas but not trounce it, unless you count the Arcade card which I dont [world heroes 2 screenshots come to mind]...if you do, you might aswell bring in the 32x for comparison and say its a Genesis.

The Arcade Card adds no extra hardware whatsoever. Unlike the Sega-CD, the Turbo/PCE CD-ROM also does not add anything extra other than allowing CD music to stream off a disc and adpcm for sfx. So really the adpcm is the only upgrade, but the PCE can already do quality sound samples in real game environments. So like the CD discs, the adpcm is only a delivery method and doesn't provide anything the PCE couldn't already do on it's own that the average person could notice.

Not counting the Arcade Card is like not counting any SNES games that are larger than 8 megs. Many SNES games however use extra hardware that is packed into the carts.

PCE definately has the speed advantage over the SNES though. The snes cpu has always been a bad move on Nintendo's part, its to slow. Graghics, not counting mode 7 id say is almost even to the SNES. Almost since theres no built in parallax.

It doesn't matter how the effect is created, parallax or otherwise it's still the same. The PCE can do all kinds of crazy parallax and other effects that aren't built-in.

Genesis is the weakestdog here, sound sucks for the most part. Colors are handicapped to 64, it had speed and good developers though.

I guess you haven't played enough Genesis games, because the system can do amazing system generated sound/music as well as great single samples, even if the other consoles are better at multiple samples. The Genesis has enough colors to produce amazing graphics for the time, but like parallax effects on the PCE it just has to be designed around the hardware instead of the other way around.

[nectarsis]

Not counting the Arcade Card is like not counting any SNES games that are larger than 8 megs. Many SNES games however use extra hardware that is packed into the carts.

HERE HERE!!   

[Black Tiger]

This was a request to show the difference in colors, tiles and such.

The PCE Bonk games didn't even attempt to use much shading and are in a different style than Super Bonk. Super Air Zonk would be the closest thing that was released commercially to compare. I just happened to put together a PCE-spec mockup of Bonk's Adventure recently that shows how the game could look using PCE graphics, but I'm away from home and don't have the url right now.

[peonpiate]

Im all for comparing games aslong as its valid, I have no problem not counting chip enhanced snes games either...But the PCE couldnt do WH2 of that quality without the ACD. It would look like like the SNES version without that extra Ram. So thats not a fair comparison.

And also the meg counts is a apples to oranges comparion to needing to buy a Addon for your system [ACD].

[nectarsis]

Im all for comparing games aslong as its valid, I have no problem not counting chip enhanced snes games either...But the PCE couldnt do WH2 of that quality without the ACD. It would look like like the SNES version without that extra Ram. So thats not a fair comparison.

And also the meg counts is a apples to oranges comparion to needing to buy a Addon for your system [ACD].

Not if the game in question has (sometimes) a LOT more megs for the same game (or similar) and STILL looks inferior on the SNES.

[Tom]

I think the PCE properly programmed can equal the SNES in alot of areas but not trounce it, unless you count the Arcade card which I dont [world heroes 2 screenshots come to mind]...if you do, you might aswell bring in the 32x for comparison and say its a Genesis.

 I've seen this mentioned before on some other forums. This perplexes me. The Arcade Card isn't adding anything new to the PCE except memory. It's equivalent to more/larger cart space. That's what purpose it serves. The SuperGrafx, now that's a hardware upgrade. The 32x, that's a fairly big upgrade (I mean, you get more colors - 32k, two 32bit processors, two new stereo DAC channels, etc). The Arcade Card isn't even equivalent to the SNES addon chips. It's nothing more than larger cart space for CD projects. I think it's perfectly fair game.

But the PCE couldnt do WH2 of that quality without the ACD. It would look like like the SNES version without that extra Ram.

 It could easily do WH2 without the ACD, in a hucard project. The ACD ram is used *as* rom/cart space. It's not attached to vram or anything.

[awack]

                                   blueraven

Thanks, Awack. I've beaten the Sega CD version of this game, which is wonderful, IMHO.

The sega cd version of Popful Mail is at the top of my want list.




                                     Black Tiger

The PCE Bonk games didn't even attempt to use much shading and are in a different style than Super Bonk. Super Air Zonk would be the closest thing that was released commercially to compare. I just happened to put together a PCE-spec mockup of Bonk's Adventure recently that shows how the game could look using PCE graphics, but I'm away from home and don't have the url right now.

No doubt, the pce bonks use more basic/bold colors where is super bonk uses more subtle colors plus more shading, but too much gradiation or the use of subtle colors for shading can make objects look flat, this isn't the case for super bonk though and yes, Super Air Zonk is definitely the closest, with lots of shading but with more vibrant colors.

I just happened to put together a PCE-spec mockup of Bonk's Adventure recently that shows how the game could look using PCE graphics, but I'm away from home and don't have the url right now.[/

That would be neat to see, i bet the person who made the request to me would really like to see it as well.

[Tatsujin]

I think the PCE properly programmed can equal the SNES in alot of areas but not trounce it, unless you count the Arcade card which I dont [world heroes 2 screenshots come to mind]...if you do, you might aswell bring in the 32x for comparison and say its a Genesis.

 I've seen this mentioned before on some other forums. This perplexes me. The Arcade Card isn't adding anything new to the PCE except memory. It's equivalent to more/larger cart space. That's what purpose it serves. The SuperGrafx, now that's a hardware upgrade. The 32x, that's a fairly big upgrade (I mean, you get more colors - 32k, two 32bit processors, two new stereo DAC channels, etc). The Arcade Card isn't even equivalent to the SNES addon chips. It's nothing more than larger cart space for CD projects. I think it's perfectly fair game.

QFT

i had this discussion over and over again in other forums, but peeps just seem not to understand it. so i explanied it like this way. if you would cut out each level of Sapphire and put them each separated on one 20Mbit HuCard, graphically wise it would run on a basic 1987 PC Engine.

[SignOfZeta]

Ive seen Lox 1 and 2 in motion, it looks good but not as good as SoM2 imo.

Yeah, no shit. The PCE can crank out one hell of a still shot, but it can't even touch what's going on in a game like Seiken 3. I wish the PCE could do transparencies, or that it had more access at a time to the huge amount of stuff on the CD, but...it doesn't.

I think the PCE properly programmed can equal the SNES in alot of areas but not trounce it, unless you count the Arcade card which I dont [world heroes 2 screenshots come to mind]...if you do, you might aswell bring in the 32x for comparison and say its a Genesis.

OK, that's just crazy.

[Joe Redifer]

Im all for comparing games aslong as its valid, I have no problem not counting chip enhanced snes games either...But the PCE couldnt do WH2 of that quality without the ACD. It would look like like the SNES version without that extra Ram. So thats not a fair comparison.

And also the meg counts is a apples to oranges comparion to needing to buy a Addon for your system [ACD].

OK I MUST step in here as this is getting a bit too ridiculous for me to let slide.  I swear we had this same argument over on Sega-16.  I wouldn't be surprised if you were that same member, I will have to check the IPs of your posts.  But if you want to compare RAW PCE power to RAW SNES power, then memory is irrelevant.  It doesn't matter if it is an 8 Meg game or a 48 meg game or an Arcade CD.  You saying that MEG count is apples and oranges in comparison to an add-on like the ACD is absolutely preposterous.  IT'S THE SAME THING!  MORE MEMORY!  What DOES matter is if there is any extra hardware helping with the tasks.  Many SNES cartridges have extra chips to help them do certain things.  The argument that was presented over at Sega-16 was that the PCE/TurboGrafx-16 could not do something as awesome as Lords of Thunder on its own.  Why not?  Because the CPU was freed of the task of generating music, so that granted much more power to the graphics and gameplay.  That was the biggest facepalm moment I had ever had, and it is starting to look like it will happen again.

[Black Tiger]

The PCE Bonk games didn't even attempt to use much shading and are in a different style than Super Bonk. Super Air Zonk would be the closest thing that was released commercially to compare. I just happened to put together a PCE-spec mockup of Bonk's Adventure recently that shows how the game could look using PCE graphics, but I'm away from home and don't have the url right now.

No doubt, the pce bonks use more basic/bold colors where is super bonk uses more subtle colors plus more shading, but too much gradiation or the use of subtle colors for shading can make objects look flat, this isn't the case for super bonk though and yes, Super Air Zonk is definitely the closest, with lots of shading but with more vibrant colors.

I just happened to put together a PCE-spec mockup of Bonk's Adventure recently that shows how the game could look using PCE graphics, but I'm away from home and don't have the url right now.[/

That would be neat to see, i bet the person who made the request to me would really like to see it as well.

My webspace has been down most of the day so these might not always show up. I just threw this together one night as an example, a lot more detail and shading could be crammed in-



Revenge and Super-




Anyways, that mockup uses real PCE colors and the background is well within the colors per tile limits. The character sprites are fairly maxed out, I know that the Chikkun (or whatever) is 15 colors. The only black that is used is for each sprite's eyes.

Ive seen Lox 1 and 2 in motion, it looks good but not as good as SoM2 imo.

Yeah, no shit. The PCE can crank out one hell of a still shot, but it can't even touch what's going on in a game like Seiken 3. I wish the PCE could do transparencies, or that it had more access at a time to the huge amount of stuff on the CD, but...it doesn't.

The PCE can do great looking transparencies with flickering, here's a great example (obviously looks better/perfect in real-time on real hardware). Isn't Seiken Densetsu 3 only 32 megs, why wouldn't 18 megs be enough CD access? What exactly goes on in SD3 that the PCE couldn't even touch?

[Tatsujin]

who made that? nooiss!!