Author Topic: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.  (Read 68491 times)

peonpiate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #825 on: October 01, 2009, 04:26:06 PM »
Quote from: peonpiate
Im all for comparing games aslong as its valid, I have no problem not counting chip enhanced snes games either...But the PCE couldnt do WH2 of that quality without the ACD. It would look like like the SNES version without that extra Ram. So thats not a fair comparison.

And also the meg counts is a apples to oranges comparion to needing to buy a Addon for your system [ACD].


OK I MUST step in here as this is getting a bit too ridiculous for me to let slide.  I swear we had this same argument over on Sega-16.  I wouldn't be surprised if you were that same member, I will have to check the IPs of your posts.  But if you want to compare RAW PCE power to RAW SNES power, then memory is irrelevant.  It doesn't matter if it is an 8 Meg game or a 48 meg game or an Arcade CD.  You saying that MEG count is apples and oranges in comparison to an add-on like the ACD is absolutely preposterous.  IT'S THE SAME THING!  MORE MEMORY!  What DOES matter is if there is any extra hardware helping with the tasks.  Many SNES cartridges have extra chips to help them do certain things.  The argument that was presented over at Sega-16 was that the PCE/TurboGrafx-16 could not do something as awesome as Lords of Thunder on its own.  Why not?  Because the CPU was freed of the task of generating music, so that granted much more power to the graphics and gameplay.  That was the biggest facepalm moment I had ever had, and it is starting to look like it will happen again.

My whole point is, with World heroes 2 your comparing not only a CD game to a limited storage SNES game. but your also comparing a game which required the ACD so that it had enough RAM to hold the graghics its displaying since its a CD game.

Thats not a fair comparison at all, regardless if its 'only' more ram...The snes version is running vanilla and unmodified, without the benefit of mass CD storage to store the huge sprites and animations and without the added RAM to quickly access it.

If you want a fair comparison of a fighting game, again its SF2. Its running on a standard Hu-card - just like the SNES version is running on standard SNES hardware. Its also nearly the same meg count as the other versions and is not accessing huge piles of additional sprites from a CD drive [and thats not counting a ACD's extra ram to access it].

And I doubt WH2 could be done to the exact quality as the ACD-CD version was on a standard hu-card..again I think it would resemble the SNES version due to storage space limits. If there was a SNES CD out there with WH2 on it im sure that version would be far more comparable...Thats why the comparison is irrelevant.

As for my comparisons to a 32x...its only for the $$$ difference. Getting a ACD card is a addon, just as a 32x is. Thats not a straight comparison.

And im not the guy on Sega-16, you can check my IP.

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #826 on: October 01, 2009, 06:17:14 PM »
there we come the truth a little bit more near. but still, what the PCE shows in any games available (except SGFX), is the pure power from 1987 and in no way more than that. unlike the SFC, MDC etc. which got their technical upgrades like Special DSP FX chipsets built-in the cart (SFC) or even a complete revised hardware with lots of extrachipsets (MCD), to accelerate grafx power and such. regarding the fact, that the PCE is anyway by far the oldest hardware, it is even more astonish what that lil' brick can perform.

the big misbelief:

all world thinks, that the PCE is THE system which got the largest upgrades in history of videogames. but the truth is, it got NOTHING. nothing means in terms of graphic acceleration and output power. all the upgrades are just limited to cosmetics and storage add-ons.

so all what you can see going on the screen is still done with the same power it was handed to it back at its birth on 30th October 1987.

www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

Arkhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14142
  • Fuck Elmer.
    • Incessant Negativity Software
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #827 on: October 01, 2009, 06:23:24 PM »
Tatsujin ftmfw

 :dance:
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

I'm a max level Forum Warrior.  I'm immortal.
If you're not ready to defend your claims, don't post em.

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #828 on: October 01, 2009, 06:59:12 PM »
ftmfw

lulz, internet knows no limit when it comes to urban slangs.
www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

ceti alpha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3835
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #829 on: October 01, 2009, 07:56:56 PM »
OTPCE


"Let the CAW and Mystery of a Journey Unlike Any Other Begin"

shubibiman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #830 on: October 02, 2009, 12:28:18 AM »
I'm sure Pionpiate and Guyome are the same person :p
Self proclamed Aldynes World Champion

Tom

  • Guest
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #831 on: October 02, 2009, 01:12:56 AM »
I'm sure Pionpiate and Guyome are the same person :p

 I know you're joking, but I really don't want to alienate peonpiate since he/she just got here.

Quote
Thats not a fair comparison at all, regardless if its 'only' more ram...The snes version is running vanilla and unmodified, without the benefit of mass CD storage to store the huge sprites and animations and without the added RAM to quickly access it.

 You say, but it's really has nothing to do with RAM. Not in the context you're thinking. It's cart space. The ACD RAM can't be access like normal RAM/ROM. It's basically just used/treated as sequential storage device for reading from memory. It's not more WORK ram or that sort of thing. The way it's designed, you don't read/write to it like normal for a console or a computer. Like I said, it's directly equivalent of a larger cart ROM. And from that perspective, it's totally fair to compare. The PCE has a better hardware arrangement for doing BG's with more non-repeating tiles than the SNES. This shows in the FF:Special comparison screens shots. This in the WH2 comparison screen shots. That Arcade Card doesn't effect the BG's because all the tiles are already loaded in VRAM. And by comparison, those stage BGs take up next to nothing compared to all the sprite frames of animation.

Quote
And I doubt WH2 could be done to the exact quality as the ACD-CD version was on a standard hu-card..again I think it would resemble the SNES version due to storage space limits.

 Well, you're only limited by the size of the rom. The SNES *technically* can handle up to a 90+meg cart size without a mapper. The PCE can also handle up to that size with just a simple mapper. There's nothing to say neither could have used larger cart sizes than that. The systems themselves aren't *limited* to small carts. But the point is, WH2 would look the same on hucard given a large enough mapper. I.e. the ACD setup gives no speed or special graphical advantage. It doesn't allow you to display larger sprites, or more colors, or give the system a speed increase. What did do though, was allow the PCE CD system to be *competitive* with the growing cart sizes of the SFC/MD systems. Technically speaking, the 256k of RAM of system card 3.0 (which again, is used as ROM space. Or better termed "cart space") - is really limited in a lot of ways, even if the CD itself can hold hundreds time more than carts. SF2, a simpler fighter engine/game IMO, was completely *not* doable on the system card 3.0. It *had* to be on a hucard project. And guess what? That same hucard *only* has 8k of RAM. So if you're saying that comparing ACD games with SNES cart is unfair, then I'd have to say comparing SNES carts to SCD games is even more unfair. Unfair for the SCD 3.0 games.

 My point is; that ACD doesn't bring to the table what a lot of gamers think. Gamers always willing to *include* the strengths of the SNES: mode 7, mode 1 (3 BG layers), 32k color palette, transparency effects, the snazy SPC sound unit. Not to mention the very common addon chips of SNES carts. And yet... a lot of gamers are *quick* to dismiss the ACD setup of the PCE. Try to classify it as an addon to the likes of the 32x or whatever. Which is utterly ridiculous. Especially from a programming perspective. I've even seen gamers dismiss the System 3.0 CD addon itself, when it tends to show something superior to the competitor/other system. I just don't understand this logic.

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #832 on: October 02, 2009, 01:30:22 AM »
this thread is so full of PCE awesomeness :clap: :overdose:


Quote
just don't understand this logic.

probably they just don't know shit about what they're really talking :idea:
www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

awack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #833 on: October 02, 2009, 01:48:26 AM »

Now thats a good looking bonk screenshot, the original Bonk is a bit dated when compared to Revenge,III and super Bonk, an upgrade like this would be great.

termis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1485
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #834 on: October 02, 2009, 02:19:36 AM »
This debate feels so much like 1990.

So according to you, PCE WH looks better because of the ACD card, and ACD is somehow an "unfair" advantage for the PCE.  Even if it is, who really f'n cares?  This isn't some sporting match -- It's just comparisons of stillshots from various systems of the era.

There were shot comparisons of PCE Rondo with against PSX SOTN some threads ago, just for shits and giggles.  No one was crying, "Wahhh. that's not fair!"

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #835 on: October 02, 2009, 02:23:02 AM »
I don't have time to make another logical argument right now, so I'll just post this-




http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

awack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #836 on: October 02, 2009, 03:36:44 AM »
Its getting close to that time of year so lets put up a few Magical Chase shots.




Necromancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21366
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #837 on: October 02, 2009, 05:33:58 AM »
And I doubt WH2 could be done to the exact quality as the ACD-CD version was on a standard hu-card..again I think it would resemble the SNES version due to storage space limits.

If Tom says that a HuCard version could look the same as the Arcade Card version, believe it.  He knows the PCE well and isn't the type to spin yarns to prove some biased point.

As for my comparisons to a 32x...its only for the $$$ difference. Getting a ACD card is a addon, just as a 32x is. Thats not a straight comparison.

That's a specious argument.  You may as well say that it's unfair to compare SNES games to any CD game (the TG-CD was a pricey add-on after all), and it's equally unfair to compare HuCards to the SNES library due to the cost disparity between the two by the time the SNES launched.  :roll:



@ Black Tiger:  Those Bonk screenies are oh so sexy.  Thanks for sharing, but when's Bonk 4 coming out?
U.S. Collection: 97% complete    155/159 titles

ceti alpha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3835
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #838 on: October 02, 2009, 07:28:38 AM »
This debate feels so much like 1990.

So according to you, PCE WH looks better because of the ACD card, and ACD is somehow an "unfair" advantage for the PCE.  Even if it is, who really f'n cares?  This isn't some sporting match -- It's just comparisons of stillshots from various systems of the era.

There were shot comparisons of PCE Rondo with against PSX SOTN some threads ago, just for shits and giggles.  No one was crying, "Wahhh. that's not fair!"

haha. Touché.  :lol:

I'm lovin' this thread though. That Bonk-update screenie looks UBER SEXT.  =P~


"Let the CAW and Mystery of a Journey Unlike Any Other Begin"

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison.
« Reply #839 on: October 02, 2009, 08:50:16 AM »
@ Black Tiger:  Those Bonk screenies are oh so sexy.  Thanks for sharing, but when's Bonk 4 coming out?

Top men are looking into that possibilty. Top men.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum