Is this the main TurboGrafx forum?

[esteban]

Documentation that came with system - booklet plus some leads - interestingly, the power supply was two pin not three, so designed for European plugs. As to distributers - don't know, will look in booklet to see if any are mentioned (can't at the moment). Seller is selling one on e-bay at the moment in UK again; seem to have a few - think they were the distributer if I recall. No included games.

Thank you.

As for sharing your WIP status with us, I know that there are several folks here who would like to follow along. You should do it.

Suggestion: I think it would be great if you removed the HuCard slot from your design and simply made your portable a dedicated China Warrior unit. China Warrior would be the heart and soul of IntoGrafx.

Note: J/K about the last bit.

[Black Tiger]

(a) Any info on the PAL TG-16 would be great: what documentation came with it?, are distributors mentioned?, any pack-in games?, any upcoming titles mentioned?, etc. etc.
(b) Does the box/packaging mention anything interesting? (i.e. pack-in game?)

Mine came with a poorer quality version of the North American system manual. The pack-in game was Alien Crush, which came loose in a sleeve with a photocopied manual, underneath everything else in the console box. From what I've seen of eBay auctions for the PAL TurboGrafx, it looks like OEM games were provided (sellers have/had tons) and distributors randomly inserted or provided them. The power supply and some accessories came in a separate box. The main box lists the contents, including "a game", but each side is pretty much the same as the reverse as it wasn't fully commercially released. The box was made in Taiwan, but the hardware was made in Japan. The main box has a peel-away serial number on the bottom(?).

Awesome, thanks. You know what you can add to that long list of "to do's" (or the longer list of "gotta finish one of these days")? A few pics/scans of the TG-PAL box and documentation.

It's already another unfinished project. I've posted some pics in one or two threads before. I took a bunch of photos of both the PAL and North American TG-16 to compare. Now that finally have a video camera, I plan on recording some comparison footage of the different speeds various games run at, as well as video the box being unpacked.

[bacteria]

Black Tiger - great link, I will look at the thread tonight when I get a chance.

esteban - Ok, I will put my WIP on this site (in the modding section) in the interim; with just a couple/few pics to date from the existing log. Today, i got the decals printed onto clear waterslide paper and gave them three coats of spray paint varnish, in preparation. Will start my worklog on this site by end of week - too much on at the moment. Lots of work to do on this project remaining.

I anticipate finishing this project (the TurboGrafx section anyway) in the next month or two, so not long to wait!

My plan is not to update my website much now, I am going for a brand new design and format, which I will release when I put this project console publicised on the web. My previous projects seem to generate 30k-50k hits or thereabouts, and intend to link interested people to this site (from my site) as the forum and my site for a downloadable guide and details on my other systems. I asked the BenHeck forum administrators to make a new "other retro systems" forum to cover systems like the TG-16, nothing has happened, so using this site instead!!

[spenoza]

A couple of people have commented about 6 buttons for the system - on my controller, and others I have seen, there is a "I" and "II" buttons, select and run and two switches to select between single and auto fire options; as well as a D-pad. Have I missed something?

Later in the life of the console a 6-button controller was introduced, initially for Street Fighter II. It was also used for several other fighting games. The later Duo models shipped with a 6-button pad included. AFAIK only two HuCards use the 6-button controller, so you're not burning any major bridges by going with just 2 buttons and the turbo switches.

Are you going to leave the expansion port attached so you can develop a portable CD-ROM unit later?  ; )

[Arkhan]

A couple of people have commented about 6 buttons for the system - on my controller, and others I have seen, there is a "I" and "II" buttons, select and run and two switches to select between single and auto fire options; as well as a D-pad. Have I missed something?

Later in the life of the console a 6-button controller was introduced, initially for Street Fighter II. It was also used for several other fighting games. The later Duo models shipped with a 6-button pad included. AFAIK only two HuCards use the 6-button controller, so you're not burning any major bridges by going with just 2 buttons and the turbo switches.

Are you going to leave the expansion port attached so you can develop a portable CD-ROM unit later?  ; )

lol portable CD ROM.


yea the Duo rx came w/6 button controller.  I guess its not such a big deal if there isnt CD support... you miss out on like SF2

[Zeon]

I would most definitely be interested in your work logs. I dig this kind of stuff, and I'm always coming up with crazy design ideas/mods and attempting to make them into reality, sometimes succeeding and other times not.

I love learning new info and techniques from other fellow "modders", "designers", or whatever we choose to call ourselves, and while I have never portabilized a console, I plan on doing it someday.

[bacteria]

Excellent, thanks for the support guys, appreciated. You never know how you get greeted when visiting a new forum (although i'm not a noobie); I must say you guys are friendly, excellent!  I will certainly start a new topic here in the next days for my WIP; although I will keep it relevant.

I have no interest in Street Fighter or the other game, so 2 buttons is fine.

The expansion pack was entirely removed in my board removal, so even if I wanted the CD option (which I don't, for various reasons), I can't do it on this system!

BTW - in the link above, found these interesting and relevant posts:

That extra 50mA may be required for the signal conversion circuitry.

No such thing. The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion"). In other words, this is the exact same hardware, with the exception of that single crystal.

Also, slowdown is a misleading term when talking about PAL-50 output... Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain, but think about ACTUAL slowdown in games... like, when a game starts running at maybe 30% speed because there's too much stuff going on at the screen... well, in PAL mode, these slowdowns rarely occur.

It's pretty fun to play a game console with a 50/60 Hz switch... whenever there's slowdown in a game, I just flip it to 50Hz and it all runs faster right away.

 I don't know what causes it, but I think that Malducci briefly explained this somewhere once.

The only difference is a crystal on the board which is rated at a different clock speed, so that the video output will be 50Hz instead of 60 (that's all it takes for PAL output - no need for "signal conversion").

WRONG!  PAL color is completely different than NTSC color.  It's not just the speed difference.  If you only slowed it down to 50Hz, you'd have NTSC 50 which is not PAL.  Just like PAL 60 is not NTSC.

Because while games generally run somewhat slower (constantly, not just occasionally, which slowdown means), the frame rates are actually higher. It's a little hard to explain

I bet it is, especially since games that usually run at 60fps could never be bested in framerate by those that run at 50fps.  Perhaps you mean there is less slowdown and when it happens it is less severe as a result.  That I will buy.

60Hz is how often the TV updates the frame, 60FPS is how many frames the hardware actually deliver. The TV will always update the frame at 50 or 60 times, depending on the video mode, but the hardware will NEVER deliver a solid 50 or 60 FPS.

Wow.  Just wow.  Have you never seen a game scroll?  Most games scroll at 60fps.  That's right, it's in a different position 59.94 times per second (the TV actually runs at 59.94Hz).  Some games like Wonderboy 3 on the SMS, scroll at 30fps (rounded up from 29.97).  The Turbo/PCE version of the same game scrolls much smoother at 60fps. 

Can YOU tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps?  Try and see if you can tell me which of these identical clips is a solid 60fps and which is a solid 30fps.  It is from Super Monkey Ball which runs at 60fps and never, ever drops a frame

Quicktime format - 1.86 MB

WMV format - 2.16 MB

Note: If your computer is slow/ancient, you may have trouble playing back the file without it stuttering.  In this case the results would be inconclusive to you.

PAL systems tend to have more CPU headroom and therefore usually see less slowdown.

[Duo_R]

you have a vacuum forming machine I take? I would love some kits like the one for the PS1, or maybe the IntoGrafphx. And could you also make me some Storm Trooper Armor???

[bacteria]

Yes, I made my own vacuum forming table, cheaply (see my site).

I am selling case kits (again, see my site)!  (see sig). Case is the same for the TurboGrafx project, and the PSone project, and other forthcoming consoles... If the console board can fit, or be made to fit, and same with screen (PSone screens best) you are fine!

[Tatsujin]

Tatsujin - There is a long white arrow pointing to a metal loop that sticks out from the board; which says 17.73448Mhz; which I presume is the crystal? If it is a crystal, how come it is a small loop?

the crystals are those two metal parts labeled with X201 & X202 (the small loop is only a test point to be able to measure the frequency with an oscilloscope). i believe to be able to reading the MHz for the X202 is about 17.73 (as also pointed with the arrow) and for the X201 something around 20MHz +alpha.

anyway, i believe the crystal used for the cpu clock is the x202 with 17.73MHz, the one for the PC Engine is 21.43MHz (probably devided by 3 to obtain the 7,16MHz CPU clock speed). if the PAL uses that 17.73MHz crystal it would be about 17% slower than the JPN/US counterpart, which also would fit with the usual speed brake for unoptimized PAL games.

so as said before, to obtain the original speed back, there is no other option left than replacing the X202 crystal with a 21.43MHz.

[Duo_R]

the Intographx is very interesting, and so is the PS1 and Gameboy Advance systems. I am confused on the Gameboy one though, what are the big carts? Are those custom made GBA carts that have flash memory loaded with roms???

Also, do you see PSP and DS Lite systems reducing the need the portabolizing of those systems? And what systems are you selling kits for (just the PS1 version)?

[Tom]

if the PAL uses that 17.73MHz crystal it would be about 17% slower than the JPN/US counterpart, which also would fit with the usual speed brake for unoptimized PAL games.

 It's very doubtful that they would be using that clock (17mhz) for the CPU when the 21.32825mhz crystal gives a CPU clock of 7.10941mhz (which if you look at the Amiga NTSC and PAL CPU speeds, come out the same as on the PCE PAL/NTSC difference). So it's not 17% slower on the CPU, but a little less than 1% slower. The VCE is more than likely being feed that 17.73mhz clock source, since it doesn't divide the 21mhz down for itself (the VCE runs at 21mhz or more precisely a straight clock source, but divides it for the VDC clock source).

 The reason why the games would run slower, is that games lock/sync in on the vblank interrupt - which happens 50 times a second for PAL (and 60 for NTSC). If the game uses the frame as a sync for the music, the music will be slower. But if a game uses the TIMER from the CPU - then it will sound the same as on the NTSC system. So an NTSC designed game running on a PAL system will run 16.6% slower, but the CPU is given more time in a single frame and most likely reducing slow down in games that have it.

[ceti alpha]

Wow, I somehow completely missed this thread. Welcome aboard bacteria and what a cool project!  I can't wait to see the final product.

[Arkhan]

Intographx

stop that.

-ph +f


 

[spenoza]

Shouldn't it be an IntoGrafx-16?