Author Topic: Asexuality...  (Read 1018 times)

Zeon

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Asexuality...
« on: May 31, 2009, 12:34:10 AM »
Serious question everyone: do you think asexuality exists? Asexuality being defined simply as "someone who does not experience sexual attraction". The question is not whether or not it actually does exist, but if you yourself think it does. I am trying gauge how people here both view and understand the subject.

Please discuss the reasons why you feel the way you do, as I am very interested.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 01:08:04 AM by Zeon »

SignOfZeta

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 04:45:39 AM »
A human not interested in sex is not asexual. You can't have a penis and be asexual. Paramecia are asexual. Paramecia have no penis.

A human might not be interested in sex because he's got a medical problem, or more likely a psychological one. I can't expect a kid who was raped by their father every day for ten years to grow up into an adult with the same sexual urges as other adults. Likewise someone who denies their own homosexuality probably isn't going to be very good at pretending they are straight and may lose all sexual urges in the process.

Mainly though your question reminded me of this series of articles which ridicules the excesses to which otaku go, and the perverted excuses they have for being so f*cked up. Its very cruel and very funny. Its also barely a parody. I've seen guys like this. The worst one was saved by his parents who bought him a mail order bride. That seemed to really turn him around. I hope he's still doing OK because playing RPGs 24/7 in a basement is no way to live.

nectarsis

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 05:07:07 AM »
actually (and oddly enough) zeon means this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality
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Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 05:21:46 AM »
A human not interested in sex is not asexual. You can't have a penis and be asexual. Paramecia are asexual. Paramecia have no penis.

A human might not be interested in sex because he's got a medical problem, or more likely a psychological one. I can't expect a kid who was raped by their father every day for ten years to grow up into an adult with the same sexual urges as other adults. Likewise someone who denies their own homosexuality probably isn't going to be very good at pretending they are straight and may lose all sexual urges in the process.

Mainly though your question reminded me of this series of articles which ridicules the excesses to which otaku go, and the perverted excuses they have for being so f*cked up. Its very cruel and very funny. Its also barely a parody. I've seen guys like this. The worst one was saved by his parents who bought him a mail order bride. That seemed to really turn him around. I hope he's still doing OK because playing RPGs 24/7 in a basement is no way to live.


Sadly this is the viewpoint of so many who dismiss asexuality because they cannot fathom the possibility of it existing. Probably because for mny it is such an integral part of their lives. Asexuality as you describe is one definition, and does not apply to humans (unless we can suddenly split into two one day)

The whole "You were sexually abused as a child" argument is rubbish. The vast majority of people who identify as asexual, have never been abused in any way physically or sexually.

Also it's kinda hard to repress something that doesn't exist within you. Trust me as an asexual who is an understanding and open-minded individual and very open and understanding to homosexuals, why would I feel any need to repress something I have zero problems with? If I was homosexual believe me I would feel no need to hide it. Furthermore I am one of the many who was never abused in any way. I don't "chose" to abstain (ie celibacy) for any reason, there is simply no desire there. In fact sexual things, be it homo, or hetero, have always been equally confusing to me. I have never understood the appeal behind any of it. Believe me when I say I have looked into it, porn of all kinds has only served to confuse, disgust, or make me laugh (there are some really bizarre and funny fetishes). The obsession society as a whole has with sex, has never made sense to me at all. To me, it's a complete waste of time. Fine for those who understand/enjoy it I guess.

In regards to homosexuality, people are quick to admit homosexuality exists, mainly because you can observe it. However biologically speaking it's "not natural" as a man can't be impregnated by natural means. This is one of the plethora of reasons why people may acknowledge homosexuality, but not accept it. Asexuality is tricky because it is hard to observe and as such many are skeptical of it. Not seeing someone interested in sex or with someone, doesn't necessarily mean anything. They might be celibate, they might be emotionally scarred, who knows? I guess to someone who is sexual, where sex is a very integral part of there being and they feel the want/need for it, they can relate to both hetero's and homos alike, because in the end sex is had and a driving force for them. It's very frustrating that something that is so fundamental to me and many others to understand is so hard for others to fathom.

While the majority of asexuals statistically speaking are female, the are many males who identify as asexual too. So yes you can have a penis and be asexual, if you need further info here is an excellent site chock full of info on the subject:
http://www.asexuality.org/home/general.html

nectarsis

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2009, 05:41:27 AM »
Maybe the people that don't "believe" in it don't because it "goes against the norm."  Humans generally are sexual, it's a pretty natural, even primal desire/need.
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SignOfZeta

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2009, 05:48:37 AM »
So...if I smoke a lot of weed and totally lose my sex drive do I render myself asexual? I'm almost 36 and don't get as excited as I used to. Does this mean I'm slowly becoming asexual?

It is not biologically normal to have zero sex drive. Obviously there are some people like this, just as there are blind people, people with no legs, etc. As I said up there there are medical reasons for this as well as psychological.

But in general I don't believe many people who have an active sex drive would have one if it weren't for the hormones. Wanting sex is not a neutral state. Its something most people are chemically motivated towards. Therefore to not have an active sex drive means you lack the chemical motivation, or that its being suppressed by a crappy diet, or drugs, clinical depression, or a husband who doesn't know how to screw. My point is there are, of course, people who don't get horny, but this isn't a sexual orientation.

Furthermore I can easily see people grasping on to this fad definition in hopes of justifying their lack of wanting to interact with anyone, sexually or otherwise, or get a job, or finish school, or anything else.

So I guess I feel the same way about self-identified asexual humans as I feel about furrys. Keep your Eyes on the Prize and maybe you'll change my ignorant mind.

UPDATE: That AVEN site is hilarious. So you don't want to have sex, so what? You are going to make a f*cking newsletter about it, and start an awareness campaign? Awareness of what? We are now aware of the non-existence of your sex drive. Now that we know about it...so what? Is there anything in life more boring that knowing that something doesn't exist?

What is the point? Are rednecks lynching "asexuals" in Florida? Are you unable to get a job as a grade school teacher because the administrators think you are a pervert? Does the state say you can't get married? Did the church kick you out? Is there a "don't ask don't tell" policy in the military? Who gives a flying f*ck!?

It reminds me of that Bill Hicks joke about how he hates people and wanted to start a new political party around this idea, the People Who Hate People Party.

"People who hate people, come together!"...and then of course nobody does.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 06:01:34 AM by SignOfZeta »

guyjin

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2009, 06:50:43 AM »
the term you're looking for is 'celibate', not 'asexual'. it's certainly possible to have a libido so low that you hardly ever feel the need (when was the last time you wanked? feel free to tell me it's none of my beeswax) but 'asexual' is a zoological term for creatures that don't have anything resembling sex.
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SignOfZeta

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2009, 07:08:42 AM »
the term you're looking for is 'celibate', not 'asexual'. it's certainly possible to have a libido so low that you hardly ever feel the need (when was the last time you wanked? feel free to tell me it's none of my beeswax) but 'asexual' is a zoological term for creatures that don't have anything resembling sex.

Not any more! Now its a political movement on par with Furry Old Lobster Awareness Month.

Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2009, 01:36:45 PM »
UPDATE: That AVEN site is hilarious. So you don't want to have sex, so what? You are going to make a f*cking newsletter about it, and start an awareness campaign? Awareness of what? We are now aware of the non-existence of your sex drive. Now that we know about it...so what? Is there anything in life more boring that knowing that something doesn't exist?

What is the point? Are rednecks lynching "asexuals" in Florida? Are you unable to get a job as a grade school teacher because the administrators think you are a pervert? Does the state say you can't get married? Did the church kick you out? Is there a "don't ask don't tell" policy in the military? Who gives a flying f*ck!?

It reminds me of that Bill Hicks joke about how he hates people and wanted to start a new political party around this idea, the People Who Hate People Party.

"People who hate people, come together!"...and then of course nobody does.


It's pretty sad you feel that way, oh well. Why the need to inform people? If you bothered to read further, without a biased view, you would have your answer. Directly from AVEN: 

Quote
Why would asexuals want or need to 'come out' anyway?

For some asexuals it really is the case that their asexuality is a complete non-issue, they never have any reason to mention sex and feel perfectly comfortable interacting with others.

Other asexuals find themselves in situations where they are expected to be sexual. They might feel pressured to fake sexual attractions in order to fit in and have an easy life. Many people find that those around them constantly bring up sexual attraction in conversations, be it sex talk in the office or "look at the legs on her". It might be easier to play along and pretend you have sexual thoughts and feelings, but in doing so you are effectively 'in the closet', whether to avoid shame or simply to make life easier for yourself.

Some asexuals have found it refreshing to come out as having no sexual attraction. They no longer have to fade into the background when sex comes into the conversation or fake sexual interest in order to fit in. They can be completely honest about who they are and what they feel.

Another reason to consider coming out is to increase visibility and acceptance of asexuals in our society. While you may feel perfectly comfortable with who you are, other asexuals feel broken or less than human. As more and more asexuals are visible in our society, the idea of asexuality as a valid part of human experience will become more widespread. Just one more openly asexual person increases the likelihood that other asexuals won't have to grow up feeling broken and ashamed.

Coming out is, of course, your own personal choice and no one will think less of you if you decide that it's not for you.


I don't know your problem is, but there are many different reasons. I would hardly call it a movement and I don't see how it would bother you so. My motivation is educating others about it, and aside from that I am curious about the subject in general. Also, you wouldn't believe how uncomfortable it makes you feel to be surrounded by those who constantly make you feel like you need to have a desire for sex when you have absolutely no desire for it. Either by talking about it, acting on it, whatever. Society as a whole seems to think you must have sex, because it's "only natural to do so". Homosexuals are persecuted, because their preference is "not natural" and people fear what they do not understand. In fact many Asexuals are labeled as "closet homosexuals". So yes often misinformation, and ignorance, can lead to persecution and conflict.

So...if I smoke a lot of weed and totally lose my sex drive do I render myself asexual? I'm almost 36 and don't get as excited as I used to. Does this mean I'm slowly becoming asexual?


Only you can really say.

But in general I don't believe many people who have an active sex drive would have one if it weren't for the hormones. Wanting sex is not a neutral state. Its something most people are chemically motivated towards. Therefore to not have an active sex drive means you lack the chemical motivation, or that its being suppressed by a crappy diet, or drugs, clinical depression, or a husband who doesn't know how to screw. My point is there are, of course, people who don't get horny, but this isn't a sexual orientation.


Oh really?: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Asexual_ants_discovered  There exist species of ants who are asexual or rather, have changed over time and become (ie evolved) asexual. Granted this is the other definition of asexual, but it shows that it is not limited to single celled organisms and that it can have nothing to do with hormones. I cannot think of a more hormonal driven species than insects. In fact many asexuals have been tested for hormone levels, some have low levels, and some are completely normal. There is no correlation between hormones and being asexual. Logically it may sound like the cause, but scientifically it has yet to be proven, what makes one lack sexual desires.

Asexuality is only recently starting to be recognized, and in the past there hasn't been much research into it. Probably because no one was looking for it in any experiments/studies. This is slowly changing. The earliest study making mention of asexuality being in 1948: http://thomaskraemer.blogspot.com/2006/09/kinsey-scale-and-asexuality-1948.html

It is not biologically normal to have zero sex drive. Obviously there are some people like this, just as there are blind people, people with no legs, etc. As I said up there there are medical reasons for this as well as psychological.


Again how would you know? You make assumptions on what you know and understand to be true. Do I have low hormone levels? Who knows? Does it really matter? Would it change the fact that I still have 0 desire for sex? No, and furthermore it doesn't change the fact that I am perfectly happy and healthy without sex. Mentally, AND physically. What is normal for the majority, is not normal for an everyone. Furthermore the majority is not always "right", many times the majority is very wrong, proven by science later down the road.

Furthermore I can easily see people grasping on to this fad definition in hopes of justifying their lack of wanting to interact with anyone, sexually or otherwise, or get a job, or finish school, or anything else.


Fad? I don't see how, most asexuals don't feel the need to even speak up about it, and are perfectly fine just going along with life. It can't really be a fad, if it is something that rings true in ones life. Certainly you may see it as a fad or "movement", but in reality most are earnestly in the pursuit of knowledge and dispelling ignorance. Whether or not asexuals are persecuted, is not the issue. Most just want others to understand, and some want to not have that feeling of being an outcast, or a freak. Just because you see no reason for this educational endeavor, does not mean there are not legit and valid reasons to do so.

Besides many asexuals are still 100% capable of sex, their reproductive organs are intact and functional, many go into non sexual relationships, and are very happy. Even the aromantic asexual still yearns for, and needs companionship and support from others, be it family, friends, whatever. I plan on fully finishing school, getting a job, and interacting with people on a daily basis. I am in fact, a very social person.

Kinda funny how in all of your assumptions about asexuals, none are true in me personally and many others. If you think I am deluding myself or lying, it won't surprise me one bit It's clear as day that you have bolted your mind shut on this topic.

So I guess I feel the same way about self-identified asexual humans as I feel about furrys. Keep your Eyes on the Prize and maybe you'll change my ignorant mind.


I don't plan to change your mind as it is completely closed on the subject. I'd be wasting my time. Others who have an open mind however, are the ones I am after.


the term you're looking for is 'celibate', not 'asexual'. it's certainly possible to have a libido so low that you hardly ever feel the need (when was the last time you wanked? feel free to tell me it's none of my beeswax) but 'asexual' is a zoological term for creatures that don't have anything resembling sex.


Do you also believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological? Celibate is a choice, asexuality is hardwired into you from birth. I can't enjoy or have a desire for sex, even if I wanted to, it's just not there. Believe me I have TRIED, and I can safely say, it's not happening. Celibates still desire sex, they just don't let themselves do it. Again the low hormones is still just a theory, and has yet to be scientifically proven to be a cause, part or whole, to asexuality.

nectarsis

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2009, 02:42:38 PM »
Do you also believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological? Celibate is a choice, asexuality is hardwired into you from birth. I can't enjoy or have a desire for sex, even if I wanted to, it's just not there. Believe me I have TRIED, and I can safely say, it's not happening. Celibates still desire sex, they just don't let themselves do it. Again the low hormones is still just a theory, and has yet to be scientifically proven to be a cause, part or whole, to asexuality.

Yet you have shown no proof it's "hardwired" and not a choice (and the question about that same issue on homosexuality is still open to debate also).
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RoyVegas

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2009, 02:51:32 PM »
This topic is honestly very interesting to me, mostly because I can't fathom the idea of not having ANY sex drive at all.  Noone here can really say what your feeling is either wrong or right.  You feel how you feel and anyone that wants to argue with you and tell you your feeling are wrong is just ridiculous.

My questions are these:

If you have the opportunity to have sex, do you take it?

Just because you don't have the urge, does that mean you don't enjoy it?

Have you ever actually had sex before to know what its like or how enjoyable it can be?

Of course you don't have to answer any of these if you don't feel comfortable.
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Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2009, 04:00:55 PM »
Do you also believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological? Celibate is a choice, asexuality is hardwired into you from birth. I can't enjoy or have a desire for sex, even if I wanted to, it's just not there. Believe me I have TRIED, and I can safely say, it's not happening. Celibates still desire sex, they just don't let themselves do it. Again the low hormones is still just a theory, and has yet to be scientifically proven to be a cause, part or whole, to asexuality.

Yet you have shown no proof it's "hardwired" and not a choice (and the question about that same issue on homosexuality is still open to debate also).

Kinda hard with so very few studies on the subject. However as far as homosexuality goes, research is showing more and more, it is not a choice. However I feel it is one of those things, you have to "be" in order to truly "know". Also keep in mind that things such as if non whites are deserving of the same rights as whites, are still open to debate even today. Many years in our past the majority agreed that non whites were "sub human". Nazi's certainly felt those who weren't Ayran were inferior and were perfectly justified in their personal beliefs. In time we have come to know this is a disgraceful and incorrect view. However don't think many don't still truly believe non whites or non Ayrans are "sub human".

I don't see any reason why I personally would ever "choose" to be asexual. Choices are usually accompanied by some sort of reasoning, nothing is ever truly 100% done on a whim. I have no reason to choose to be asexual, let's look at possible reasons:

Religious/Moral reasons: Though I consider myself Christian, I do not subscribe to the school of thought that there is anything inherently wrong with sex. Nor do I believe anything is necessarily gained from celibacy.

Being rebellious/different: While it may seem like I go against the societal norms on a lot of things, it is not to be rebellious nor a conscious decision. I simply am being who I am. While I choose to go after a degree in computer science, I never chose, or decided "Hey I'm going to be interested in computer stuff". It's something innate in my nature and personality to like this stuff. I discovered and taught myself more about computers than anyone else ever did. I was initially drawn to them, no one had an influence on me ultimately deciding to pursue this interest.

I am suffered trauma/abuse/was scarred as a kid: Certainly not the case, my parents, nor anyone I knew ever abused me in any way. They are very loving and have nurtured my growth.

I am trying to hide/cover up my insecurities or I choose to be asexual because I have no luck in romantic relationships: Not true at all. I never felt compelled to seek out romantic relationships in the first place, and I certainly never understood the concept of "sex" or why any of it is appealing. However just because I seek no romance, this does not mean I am "soulless" or "incapable of loving" I have my emotional needs too. Without my family and friends to support me, I would certainly go mad.

I just want attention: Believe me if I wanted attention, there are far more effective outlets to pursue in that venue. I don't care for attention, or "being in the spotlight", if anything I try to avoid it.

Considering all of these reasons, can anyone think why I personally would "choose" such a path, especially when it is far from the norm? If I had a choice in the matter do you think I would for a second not choose to fit in? Yes you can argue it's a choice in the end, but it's a choice from necessity, while I very well could try sex, why bother when there is nothing there emotionally nor anything to compel me to do so? Just like how I choose a degree in computer science based on my innate liking of the subject and aptitude for it, or how I choose not to shove my fist into a blender. In the first case i make the decision based on something I know I like, in the second I base it on something I know I will not like. There is no need try try it out, you just know.

This topic is honestly very interesting to me, mostly because I can't fathom the idea of not having ANY sex drive at all.  Noone here can really say what your feeling is either wrong or right.  You feel how you feel and anyone that wants to argue with you and tell you your feeling are wrong is just ridiculous.

My questions are these:

If you have the opportunity to have sex, do you take it?

This has never arisen and if it did, I can say with 100% certainty the answer is no.

Just because you don't have the urge, does that mean you don't enjoy it?

More indifferent. I see sex more as something peculiar or interesting, much like a scientist might find how blind people better develop their other senses an intriguing subject, or how a junior high student in algebra wonders how can negative numbers exist? It's there, it's strange, but I don't enjoy, or dislike it really.  It's mostly intriguing to observe certain aspects associated with sex, and why certain things are considered desirable over others.

Have you ever actually had sex before to know what its like or how enjoyable it can be?

Imagine the following scenario if you will: A pot of boiling water. You know from what you have been taught about the properties of water and/or prior experience with very hot objects/substances. Are you compelled to stick you hand in the hot water, or would you stick you hand into the pot of boiling hot water to confirm what you indirectly already know? I'd imagine not, you know it's not a good idea, and you would not enjoy it without needing to experience your hand in boiling hot water first hand. Replace prior experience and knowledge with observations of porn and attempts at masturbation to sexual images and not even understanding how it's possible (and instead laughing at some of the bizarre fetishes, or left highly confused), and replace the pot of boiling hot water with sex, and you have a good idea of what I mean. In fact many asexuals experiment with sex, and rarely ever is their mind changed.

Of course you don't have to answer any of these if you don't feel comfortable.

No problem man, the more you know...  :wink:

RoyVegas

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2009, 04:32:06 PM »
I can understand that you don't have the "desire" to have sex.  But comparing it to putting you hand in boiling water?  Putting you hand in boiling water would just be stupid as your already know the result would absolutely be pain and injury.  Sex doesn't cause pain and injury unless you are a) into kinky shit (S&M) or b) have unprotected sex which has it's own set of complications.

All is well. :)

Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2009, 05:11:11 PM »
I can understand that you don't have the "desire" to have sex.  But comparing it to putting you hand in boiling water?  Putting you hand in boiling water would just be stupid as your already know the result would absolutely be pain and injury.  Sex doesn't cause pain and injury unless you are a) into kinky shit (S&M) or b) have unprotected sex which has it's own set of complications.



It need not be something painful. Take food for instance, given past experiences with food and what people know about say deer penises, it is not a requirement for many to eat a deer penis to know you won't like it. There is nothing compelling you to eat one in the first place, and even if you don't find it repulsive, chances are not many will ever have a craving for deer penises before or after eating one once. Likewise if you could care less about cars, do you need to go to a nascar racing event to know you don't care for racing? There are many things you don't need to experience first hand to know if you like them or not, in most cases prior knowledge and experience will suffice. Besides if a "sexy" picture or video, be it naked or clothed, weird fetsh, softcore/hardcore whatever, elicits no reaction in you, why would having a sexy guy or girl, clothed or not, in front of you be any different?

RoyVegas

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2009, 05:21:27 PM »
I guess your points are just very hard to understand for most of us.  We are horny guys and just cant relate.  lol
All is well. :)