Author Topic: Asexuality...  (Read 1009 times)

Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2009, 07:19:39 PM »
I guess your points are just very hard to understand for most of us.  We are horny guys and just cant relate.  lol

Think of it like this, sexuals have a need for sex, whereas asexuals do not. To asexuals it's simply another subject, if you want sex, go for it, if not, it's just another interest. If you think of it as any other preference or interest, it's a little easier to understand. I can understand how I like the pc engine, but many others don't. If you can separate it from being a biological need (in fact there are many emotionally, physically, and mentally happy and healthy single individuals who live a good life and never have sex. certainly it isn't a requirement to continue living) you are on the path to better understanding those around you.

For me the idea of one needing, (or feeling that they need) sex is very foreign indeed.

geise

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 03:47:02 AM »
Play less games, date more girls.  That will get rid of any Asexuality.  Just make sure it's the right girl so you don't go homosexual. (it's ok to go that route though).  You could also go HentaiSexual.  Some people prefer that.

RoyVegas

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 04:20:51 AM »
I do get what you're saying as far as what it is Zeon.  I guess it's just that most guy can't "relate".  We can't possibly imagine the idea of not actually desiring sex.
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guyjin

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 05:32:18 AM »
I have a question for you: I can understand wanting to tell your parents or close friends about this (so that your friends will stop trying to set you up on dates, and your parents will stop pressuring you for grandkids) but why should we care? you're not getting any, and you like it that way - so what?
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Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 09:40:26 AM »
I have a question for you: I can understand wanting to tell your parents or close friends about this (so that your friends will stop trying to set you up on dates, and your parents will stop pressuring you for grandkids) but why should we care? you're not getting any, and you like it that way - so what?

Does it matter? There are far more trivial, and sometimes outright useless posts. Just because you see no value in it does not mean others aren't curious, or that I have no place posting it here. It's like your (or was it somebody else's?) thread on religion. A some don't care some do, and in more cases than not it boils down to people belligerently arguing about something that the person they are arguing with has no intention of changing their mind. The sensible people will have left long before then.

Sure I could go post on Aven and discuss with other asexuals about, well being asexual. But I am not interested in merely the point of view of an asexual. (Because they mutually agree on a lot of things, but certainly not all) This is as much of a learning experience for me, as it may be for others. Does a social scientist not try to find a diverse group of people that differ greatly from one another, when running an experiment to minimize bias and whatnot? Do we not want varied juries, in the pursuit of a fair trial? If you are not interested, so be it, you've said all you can really say. I don't post in threads that don't interest me, as I simply don't care and have nothing to say. Must we all tell our motives for the posts we make?  :P

If anyone else has anymore questions, would like to discuss asexuality or heck sexuality in general and how it relates or differs from asexuality, or have any other constructive comments on the subject, I am all ears.  :D

Necromancer

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 10:11:05 AM »
I don't know if asexuality is genetic, a chemical imbalance, all in their heads, or caused by too much exposure to American Idol; but guess what, I don't really care.  Much like homosexuality, it doesn't personally affect me, so I'm not about to persecute others for their behavior (or lack thereof in this case).

when was the last time you wanked?

I'm doing it right now.  Fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap......  :-"

I have a question for you: I can understand wanting to tell your parents or close friends about this (so that your friends will stop trying to set you up on dates, and your parents will stop pressuring you for grandkids) but why should we care? you're not getting any, and you like it that way - so what?

Amen - assuming you meant 'coming out' in general and not just this thread.  The reasoning given on the AVEN site that coming out is a way to protect yourself from all the sex obsessed people in the world is self-serving, puerile, and no less bigoted than they claim the 'normal' people to be.  If your current friends talk of nothing but sex, then you need to find a different group of people to hang out with (preferably not 15 year old boys).  If the topic isn't popping up (so to speak) nearly as often as AVEN suggests, then get over it.  My friends regularly discuss topics of which I have no interest (i.e. - their children), yet I can politely smile and nod just like they do when I bring up something about which they could give a tin shit; that's the way the world works - it's rare to find a group of people who share the exact same interests in equal intensities.  They also claim that coming out is to help increase asexual people's acceptance by society, which is almost humorous in light of the fact that few people seem to even care and they're not actively persecuted anyway (as noted by Zeta).
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Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2009, 02:14:58 PM »
My friends regularly discuss topics of which I have no interest (i.e. - their children), yet I can politely smile and nod just like they do when I bring up something about which they could give a tin shit

Then why do you feel the need to even reply in this thread? I certainly would not call your response "politely smiling and nodding". That, my friend, is call hypocrisy. Furthermore from the way you described Aven, you clearly misunderstood every bit of it's motives and reason for existence. Don't take it from me, take it from the site itself, (again, did you even bother to read it for more than 5 minutes? I am beginning you didn't even bother to fully read my previous statements, sorry if it's too long to bother with something you don't "give a tin shit" about. If you are going to be judgmental about something you don't even care to take the time and research, then please just "politely smile and nod"):

Quote
I'm so glad I found this community. People who have sex are so (annoying/stupid/wrong/evil), aren't they?

Annoying

Living in a society where everyone is assumed to be sexual and where the media, especially soaps and advertising, portray everyone as sexual and constantly tempted by sex, you might justifiably feel marginalized and ignored. You might find it deeply frustrating that the people around you can't conceive of your reality, that people are constantly assuming you have a sexuality. It's understandable that you might want to vent these frustrations by ranting about how much sexual people annoy you. This may not be the most reasonable way to react.

If people are inconsiderate to you because they don't understand your sexuality, then try explaining it to them. As your friends realize the existence of asexuals, perhaps they'll start to be more considerate toward you and those like you. The more people out there who know that they're friends of an asexual, the more visibility we'll have. Eventually we might even be represented in the media.

If you tell someone you're asexual and they still continue to ignore you and assume you're sexual, then you can rant!

Stupid

People who have sex aren't any more or less stupid than anyone else.

Sexuality itself can seem like a somewhat awkward and arbitrary activity, and it may be confusing that sexual people get so worked up over it. It's important to be as accepting of sexual people as you want them to be of you.

Wrong/Evil

There is nothing wrong or evil about sex and people who have sex. Sex is a beautiful pleasurable thing for those consenting adults who enjoy it. If you're looking for asexual people who'll be anti-sexual with you, you'll probably be disappointed. Being asexual doesn't mean you hate sex, it just means that you're not driven to have it. If you grew up asexual in a sexual world you might hold some resentment about sex but, as an asexual, it's just as likely that you wouldn't think about it at all.

Quote
The reasoning given on the AVEN site that coming out is a way to protect yourself from all the sex obsessed people in the world is self-serving, puerile, and no less bigoted than they claim the 'normal' people to be.

Uhhh where is said reasoning, could you please line me to where this is even suggested. Because I sure as heck can't find it...anywhere. This very "reasoning" is frowned upon by Aven, so I don't see where you are getting it from. In fact I will say this for probably the 4th time by now. Most are generally just curious and/or trying to better understand themselves and the people around them. I don't know what you are basing your stance on other than possibly biased generalizations you have made from spending 5 minutes on the site.

In fact, did you know that Richard Milhouse Nixon was the first US President whose name contains all the letters from the word "criminal" and William Jefferson Clinton is the 2nd? It's a completely useless fact but interesting nonetheless. Notice the key word there. Besides, how can you say knowledge of asexuality is completely useless? How can you possibly know or even begin to consider every possible situation and scenario for every person? I can think of 1000s of things that are more "useless" to know. I can, however think of reasons why asexuality IS useful knowledge:

The pursuit of knowledge - Be it curiosity, science, whatever the subject of asexuality is very interesting to many. Heck, if we study it further it might provide us with useful knowledge about human behavior, psychology, or any other number of useful things. How would we ever know if we choose to ignore it? What harm is there in documenting/observing/relating it to others?

Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue.

Are asexuals persecuted like homosexuals? No, and in fact it's not really fair to compare the two "causes", as they have different problems, different motives, and different hurdles to overcome. No ones trying to downplay the persecution, issues, and controversy that surrounds homosexuals. I can think of few who do compare it to the problems homosexuals deal with daily, unless you are asexual and attracted to the same sex in which case you still deal with the issues of homosexuality. (yes there is a distinction between romance and sex, you can be a bi, gay, straight or just plain aromantic asexual) If anything, most asexuals just want to promote awareness, and nothing more. Is there something so wrong with that? If so please enlighten me.

Quote
They also claim that coming out is to help increase asexual people's acceptance by society, which is almost humorous in light of the fact that few people seem to even care and they're not actively persecuted anyway (as noted by Zeta).

Again you misunderstand, by "acceptance" we simply mean acknowledging it exists. Suppose in high school your friends are distraught that you have never had a girlfriend/boyfriend. So they decide to "hook you up" with someone. You tell them politely and sincerely "Hey I am not interested" and at some point you say you an aromantic asexual, and explain what it means. Now suppose they do not believe you, or they do not believe that's possible. In fact they keep on trying to get you to go on a date. They have not accepted that your preference is even possible nor are they respecting you, simply because they do not understand. Or suppose you are in a relationship, and upon informing your partner that you do not wish to have sex with them, they respond with disbelief, and continue to make advances, thinking you are playing "hard to get". Then when you tell them about asexuality and how you have no desire for sex, they won't accept the fact that it is even possible. You see what I am getting at? It has nothing to do with prosecution and everything to do with understanding and knowledge. I fact one definition of acceptance is simply: "The mental attitude that something is believable and should be accepted as true" Given this, I do not see the humor in your conclusion.

nectarsis

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2009, 02:37:54 PM »

"Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue."

Conflict??  Man if people are fighting/dbating this, thats sad.   Just tell them it's none of your damn business...like anyone else...conflict avoided.  As for getting married..you DAMN well better deal with that WELL before then.

Asexuals, and homosexual "causes" have many obvious similarities...being "misunderstood", a minority, etc.

"asexual and attracted to the same sex in"

Asexuality is a sexual orientation describing individuals who do not experience sexual attraction (from wiki)...so your statement doesn't even make sense there.

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Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2009, 03:05:56 PM »

"Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue."

Conflict??  Man if people are fighting/dbating this, thats sad.   Just tell them it's none of your damn business...like anyone else...conflict avoided.  As for getting married..you DAMN well better deal with that WELL before then.

Things are nearly so simple as you propose. It's like saying racism could be eliminated from the world if we all just learned to love one another. There's much more to this than meets the eye, and that's all I'm going to say on that.

Asexuals, and homosexual "causes" have many obvious similarities...being "misunderstood", a minority, etc.

So do monkeys and humans, but do we concern ourselves with why monkeys fling their poo? Do monkeys care about the racial concerns/misunderstandings of humans? There are similarities yes, but to treat them as the same thing when they differ in so many ways, is unfair.

"asexual and attracted to the same sex in"

Asexuality is a sexual orientation describing individuals who do not experience sexual attraction (from wiki)...so your statement doesn't even make sense there.

Ah I am very glad you brought up this point. Let's examine these two statements more closely shall we?:

"asexual and attracted to the same sex in"

"Asexuality is a sexual orientation describing individuals who do not experience sexual attraction"

See the difference there? Look at it this way, are people not attracted to (or repulsed from) things for their physical beauty, aesthetics, etc? If you find a picture of the sunset beautiful, you are attracted to it, but are you compelled to have sex with it? I hope not. In much the same way, asexuals are attracted to other characteristics or traits of humans. Physical appearance, personality, similar interests, whatever. There is far more to romance than sex, and any romantic relationship based solely on sex, is not much of a valuable relationship is it? At this point you are having sex for the pleasure you get from it, and as soon as your partner no longer satisfies you, it's off to the next one. Asexuals and sexuals might both desire relationships. The only difference is the asexual doesn't want/doesn't enjoy sex (some do allow there partner to have sex with them in a compromise to make their partner happy, but to them they'd probably be doing something more interesting, like reading a book or playing a game).

Sex and romance are two separate things, one may lead to the other, but certainly neither is a prerequisite for the other. Just as some individuals screw and move with ease, having zero bonding/attachment to their partner, so can two individuals have a loving and meaningful relationship without sex. In the first case the person is likely not to care if something happened to their partner (as there are many more out there ripe for the picking), in the second, if something happened to one's partner, it would have a great influence on their daily life and be a deep concern for them.

nectarsis

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2009, 03:20:47 PM »
obvious similarities...
"but to treat them as the same thing"

when does similar  mean SAME??
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Zeon

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2009, 03:32:41 PM »
obvious similarities...
"but to treat them as the same thing"

when does similar  mean SAME??

I should rephrase: To treat the two issues as if they have the same problems, or to insinuate that they are both equally important to everyone for the same reasons, just because they are similar is not fair. What I am trying to get at is this: Homosexuals have different reasons and motives (and also similar ones) to spread the word from asexuals. To put them on the same level would be downplaying the plight of homosexuals. It also leads to untrue over generalizations and incorrect assumptions. (ie: Asexuals must be outcrying or trying to raise awareness because they are being persecuted like homosexuals, or that asexuals are just closet homosexuals) The end goal might be the similar, but that doesn't mean they don't still differ greatly in the journey to their goals.

Arkhan

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2009, 05:37:29 AM »
if asexuality REALLY exists and isnt just some SUPER depressed or scared goon that cant get a woody and is afraid of boobs........... I think its a brain defect.

Every human is biologically wired to reproduce AKA humpity hump.

anything straying from this is some kinda defect/imbalance/thingy that I dont know much about because im not a scientist or doctor.



PS: Your initial statement is more credible and all of that if you DONT yank it right from the first sentence of wikipedia, lol.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Necromancer

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2009, 06:59:27 AM »
Then why do you feel the need to even reply in this thread? I certainly would not call your response "politely smiling and nodding". That, my friend, is call hypocrisy.

Reading comprehension fail, zippy.  Never did I say that this thread is without value or that I had no interest in discussing asexuality.  Since you obviously didn't grasp it the first time, I'll try again: it's normal for groups of people to discuss topics that at least one member has little interest, yet the uninterested party will usually smile and nod until the topic changes rather than demand that everyone stop discussing said topic.  I gave a specific example of a topic that doesn't greatly interest me (children), so it's a mystery why you thought that I was talking about asexuality in that instance.

Furthermore from the way you described Aven, you clearly misunderstood every bit of it's motives and reason for existence. Don't take it from me, take it from the site itself, (again, did you even bother to read it for more than 5 minutes?

Nowhere did I discuss AVEN's mission, but rather criticized a single point taken from their site.  Try rereading my post.

I am beginning you didn't even bother to fully read my previous statements, sorry if it's too long to bother with something you don't "give a tin shit" about.  If you are going to be judgmental about something you don't even care to take the time and research, then please just "politely smile and nod"):

Again: learn to accurately interpret others' words.  If you'd bothered to read my post in its entirety, you'd see that I agreed with guyjin that it'd be useful to come out to one's close family and friends (a.k.a. - people who actually care), and that I only took umbrage with AVEN's notion that coming out to everyone under the sun is a good idea and anything other than self-serving.

Uhhh where is said reasoning, could you please line me to where this is even suggested. Because I sure as heck can't find it...anywhere. This very "reasoning" is frowned upon by Aven, so I don't see where you are getting it from.

Read your own quote from AVEN's site:

Quote
Many people find that those around them constantly bring up sexual attraction in conversations, be it sex talk in the office or "look at the legs on her". It might be easier to play along and pretend you have sexual thoughts and feelings, but in doing so you are effectively 'in the closet', whether to avoid shame or simply to make life easier for yourself.

Some asexuals have found it refreshing to come out as having no sexual attraction. They no longer have to fade into the background when sex comes into the conversation or fake sexual interest in order to fit in. They can be completely honest about who they are and what they feel.

As already noted, it's understandable to come out to close friends and family, but coming out to stop anyone and everyone from ever saying anything sexual is an entirely different story.  If a conversation turns to something sexual and someone quickly reveals that they're asexual, then they're obviously trying to change the subject to defend themselves from an uncomfortable subject.  It's no less rude than if I were to state that I hate kids as soon as someone starts talking about their kids.  Furthermore, AVEN's classification of people's appreciation of the human form ("look at the legs on her") as strictly sexual in nature reveals their own bias against sexual people.  Using that logic: if I think a little girl is cute, then I must be a pedophile; and if I say some dude has an impressive physique, then I must be gay.  :roll:

In fact, did you know that Richard Milhouse Nixon was the first US President whose name contains all the letters from the word "criminal" and William Jefferson Clinton is the 2nd? It's a completely useless fact but interesting nonetheless. Notice the key word there. Besides, how can you say knowledge of asexuality is completely useless?

Uh, I didn't.  I only intimated that knowing that a specific person is asexual is useless, as simply coming out does absolutely nothing to educate others about asexuality (outside of learning that that person is in fact asexual, of course).

How can you possibly know or even begin to consider every possible situation and scenario for every person? I can think of 1000s of things that are more "useless" to know. I can, however think of reasons why asexuality IS useful knowledge:

The pursuit of knowledge - Be it curiosity, science, whatever the subject of asexuality is very interesting to many. Heck, if we study it further it might provide us with useful knowledge about human behavior, psychology, or any other number of useful things. How would we ever know if we choose to ignore it? What harm is there in documenting/observing/relating it to others?

Understanding - If people understand and accept that humans can be asexual, there won't be conflict with family, friends, or peers when it comes to subjects of sex, romance and relationships. Imagine someone getting married and their spouse is completely disinterested in sex, if they know that they are asexual, then there are no problems. Otherwise you can imagine the conflicts that would ensue.

Are asexuals persecuted like homosexuals? No, and in fact it's not really fair to compare the two "causes", as they have different problems, different motives, and different hurdles to overcome. No ones trying to downplay the persecution, issues, and controversy that surrounds homosexuals. I can think of few who do compare it to the problems homosexuals deal with daily, unless you are asexual and attracted to the same sex in which case you still deal with the issues of homosexuality. (yes there is a distinction between romance and sex, you can be a bi, gay, straight or just plain aromantic asexual) If anything, most asexuals just want to promote awareness, and nothing more. Is there something so wrong with that? If so please enlighten me.

Blah, blah, blabbitty-blah.  Since you probably didn't get it the first time, I'll say it again: simply coming out does not educate society about asexuality.

Again you misunderstand, by "acceptance" we simply mean acknowledging it exists. Suppose in high school your friends are distraught that you have never had a girlfriend/boyfriend. So they decide to "hook you up" with someone. You tell them politely and sincerely "Hey I am not interested" and at some point you say you an aromantic asexual, and explain what it means. Now suppose they do not believe you, or they do not believe that's possible. In fact they keep on trying to get you to go on a date. They have not accepted that your preference is even possible nor are they respecting you, simply because they do not understand. Or suppose you are in a relationship, and upon informing your partner that you do not wish to have sex with them, they respond with disbelief, and continue to make advances, thinking you are playing "hard to get". Then when you tell them about asexuality and how you have no desire for sex, they won't accept the fact that it is even possible. You see what I am getting at? It has nothing to do with prosecution and everything to do with understanding and knowledge. I fact one definition of acceptance is simply: "The mental attitude that something is believable and should be accepted as true" Given this, I do not see the humor in your conclusion.

Point taken.  The way the previously quoted paragraph's first sentence is worded, it conveys that they are seeking acceptance of asexuals rather than acceptance of asexuality, but I should have read the first sentence in the context of the entire paragraph.
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geise

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2009, 08:13:56 AM »
Zeon/Zippy, if you feel you're asexual then fine.  Look on the bright side.  You'll stay single, have lots of money for video games.  So what is the problem?  You don't need sex, great!  All this talk isn't really educating anyone that would maybe want to know.  Also no offense but why does everything you reply to have to be a 12 page essay?

Arkhan

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Re: Asexuality...
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2009, 05:54:33 PM »
Yeah the giant Tolstoy responses are

.......making me asexual.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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