Author Topic: I Purchased Sapphire!  (Read 7528 times)

GUTS

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I Purchased Sapphire!
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2005, 06:06:40 PM »
Hah that'd be hilarious if you were right!

Black Tiger

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« Reply #91 on: August 31, 2005, 02:08:58 AM »
What I can't believe is that anyone buys anything at all from him.

Even if he had 100% positive feedback and wasn't selling garbage, all his prices are like double the going rates and he doesn't list anything that actually rare.
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Keranu

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« Reply #92 on: August 31, 2005, 10:27:06 AM »
Quote from: "stevek666"
Does anyone else hear get a headache just looking at the manner in which Bullshit uses fonts?  It is absolutely insane and makes it difficult to read, among other things.

PERHAPS that is the intended effect: to discourage folks from reading the text.

Damn, just another reason why Bullseye sucks.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

MotherGunner

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« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2005, 02:48:46 PM »
So is there a way to make the ships in sapphire move faster?
-MG

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM (If you want peace, Prepare for war)
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Keranu

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« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2005, 03:35:23 PM »
I don't think so because they were trying to balance out each ship/character in the game with some being faster and slower, poweful and weak, etc...
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Black Tiger

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« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2005, 03:58:22 PM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
I don't think so because they were trying to balance out each ship/character in the game with some being faster and slower, poweful and weak, etc...


So, maybe try another character.
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Keranu

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« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2005, 04:40:34 PM »
Quote from: "Black_Tiger"

So, maybe try another character.

Pricisely  8) .
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Ceph

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« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2005, 06:50:45 AM »
Hi folks, I'm new here. I just discovered this forum and since I'm a long time fan of NEC's litte wondermachine, I chose to register. After looking around a bit I found this topic.

I'm very sorry I didn't come here earlier so I could have warned you: The copies of Sapphire which that guy sold on ebay are indeed counterfeits.

They were made around mid 2001; not '99 or 2000 as this scammer writes on his page. I was in Tokyo at that time and I am pretty sure there were NO fake Sapphires then.

The people who made them (most likely in Asia) did not have access to Hudson's original printing templates, so they had to use an original copy as "master" which they scanned. Since the original was printed using the offset printing method, the colored parts consist of tiny little dots, while black lines are very sharp. When reprinting it from the scans, this could not be duplicated, of course. That's why the counterfeits are slightly blurred / out of focus. When you look closer, you'll also notice that the colors don't quite match: All parts that are yellow in the original are almost orange in the copy (for instance the katakana writing), the purple vest of the girl on the cover is blue in the counterfeit.

Another thing the fraudsters didn't manage to replicate exactly is the factory seal's tear strip: The original was approximately 0.5cm from the bottom while theirs is higher up in the middle of the katakana letters. Maybe their equipment couldn't do it or maybe they had no original sealed copy for reference. Another thing they simply _could_not_ copy is the serial number on the inner ring of the original CD, which is identical for all original copies.

Those counterfeits were produced for one purpose only: To scam unsuspecting collectors out of a lot of money. Of course this only worked for a short time (until it became known that counterfeits were out there).

I had a good laugh when reading that German scammer's website http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/
"Alternative copies" - what a funny euphemism. Basically all he writes there is complete bullsh*t. Why would a game copany issue a second print run to keep prices down on the secondary market?? Hudson never did such a thing, and not a single shop in Tokyo claims they did. This is, plain and simple, a lie.

Too bad so many of you fell for this. I contacted ebay about the counterfeits several times, they chose not react (just as usual). The guy who sold the counterfeits on ebay (ebay name asian_dvd_classics) knew full well he was selling bootlegs - that's why his auctions were set to "private"; that way the people who bought the fakes couldn't even be warned. You may think that $60 for a nicely made replica isn't a bad price... I'm sure it wasn't for asian_dvd_classics who paid considerably less when he purchased a box full somewhere in Asia and made some $10000 selling them during the past 3 months. I for one think that even $5 is too much for a bootleg. I also think that he is a criminal who should be prosecuted and punished to the full extent. Anyone here know his real name?

MotherGunner

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« Reply #98 on: September 30, 2005, 04:11:46 PM »
Hi Ceph,  First off welcome to the forums, we always like to welcome new members, as I was fully welcomed by everyone here.

However, I must point out that we all know that these are bootlegs, and guess what?  We don't care.  Most will agree that $500 for a game is too much.  For us, buying a really good bootleg is just as good, even though it me be about the price of a new PS2, or Xbox game.

With that in mind, it is not necessary to flame Fudoh by calling him a scammer.  After all, no one forced us to buy his copies.  Most of us are adult enough to know we are paying for bootlegs.  As mentioned, we really don't care.  It works well, and looks great with the rest of our collection.  As long as there are no errors, I'm fine with it.

Fudoh was a really nice guy and came through with the product.  If he was stealing our money, he would be a scammer but he is not.  He is merely providing a product that people want.

I also think most of us feel less guilty seeing a copy that has a spine card, booklet and case (bootleg or not).  

I think the collectors like Bullseye are the real scammers.  If you read on to our forums, most people frown upon other people that rat people out on ebay for the wrong reasons.  Fudoh sold his copies buy it now for $59.95 while some of his customers turned around and where asking for nearly double or triple.  Those are the real scammers.

Im not mad at you.  Your point is accepted, and noted.  This is a case of good intention bad judgement.

Fudoh may be a father with children to feed.  He has to do what he has to do.  If selling those copies put food on the table for his wife and children, than it was worth it.
-MG

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM (If you want peace, Prepare for war)
SI VIS BELLUM, PARA MATRIMONIUM (If you want war, Prepare for marriage)

Keranu

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« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2005, 07:32:08 AM »
Ceph, I think you should check out this thread https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=846&highlight=sapphire+laser+disc . Michael Helgeson makes some excellent points why it might not be a counterfit. I believe it's not a counterfit either mainly because of Michael's reasons, but I can't say I believe Fudoh's story about these alternate Sapphires being a second run by Hudson. I think it could be a possibility, but who knows? For now from the facts I have gathered, mainly from Michael, is that I believe it's not a counterfit.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Black Tiger

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« Reply #100 on: October 01, 2005, 08:25:51 AM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
Ceph, I think you should check out this thread https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=846&highlight=sapphire+laser+disc . Michael Helgeson makes some excellent points why it might not be a counterfit. I believe it's not a counterfit either mainly because of Michael's reasons, but I can't say I believe Fudoh's story about these alternate Sapphires being a second run by Hudson. I think it could be a possibility, but who knows? For now from the facts I have gathered, mainly from Michael, is that I believe it's not a counterfit.


I still think that they're bootlegs, but am very glad that they exist.

The reason most game bootlegs are lower quality is to make them worthwhile to buy.

Most of the major bootleg music cd/soundtrack publishers' disc are around the same quality that these Sapphire's sound like. Except with Sapphire, they didn't alter the images to make it look like they were distributing it instead of the original Japanese publishers.

And since the goal here was obviously to make a realistic looking copy, I'm not surprised that it looks as good as it does(but as inferior as it is to the real deal).

Since it doesn't have Ever-Anime or Son May or whatever all over it, that means that its not supposed to be a cheap copy, but a genuine counterfeit. And the only reason someone would got to the trouble of making a counterfeit and not just an Ever-Anime type copy is because of Sapphire's value.

Even if the print quality wasn't obviously reproduced, the fact that its not a real PC Engine disc is giveaway enough.

But like I said, I'm glad that they're out there. I just wish that people wouldn't sell them for hundreds of dollars as originals.

But if someone did buy it for $60, thinking it was an original and they just want to enjoy it for themselves, then it doesn't matter what it really is if it makes them happy(thinking that its real as it gathers dust on their shelf).

If someone buys one for $60 with the intention of jacking up the price and making a buck on someone elses' back, then let them find out what they were really buying when it shows up in the mail.

Whats legal and whats moral not only aren't equal, but are inconsistant within themselves.

Its legal to reproduce video game system hardware like the NES and even ripp off the artistic likeness for profit(or not for profit).

But its not legal to reproduce a game that hasn't been published in a decade and that the maker has no intention of ever selling again... for profit(but it is legal for personal use or to giveway). Even though you're not taking money away from anyone, because the refuse to sell it.

Now, if you're going to just yell from behind "its illegal!", as people did about downloading/sharing free roms for years(before it was deemed legal), does that mean if a judge changes that tomorrow or if the copyright/trademark/etc runs out that you're all of a sudden okay with it?

And if not, if you're all about the moral aspect of this kinda stuff and you feel that getting something for free or paying someone other than the original owner for it is wrong, well its now legal a lot of the time, so you can't turn all the commies in.

What I don't get, is why aren't these people up in arms about no one paying licensing fees to cavemen or ancient egyptions or the authors of campfire songs or catchphrases?

The ridiculousness of nobody being able to even think of something they experienced without paying someone for it is getting out of hand. If they're going to sue clothing stores for playing cd music or the radio(or putting tariffs on cdrs, which of course are used for nothing other than stealing music), then they might as well sue you for replaying the same songs in your mind while you're flipping burgers at McDonalds.
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esteban

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« Reply #101 on: October 01, 2005, 09:35:56 AM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
Ceph, I think you should check out this thread https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=846&highlight=sapphire+laser+disc . Michael Helgeson makes some excellent points why it might not be a counterfit. I believe it's not a counterfit either mainly because of Michael's reasons, but I can't say I believe Fudoh's story about these alternate Sapphires being a second run by Hudson. I think it could be a possibility, but who knows? For now from the facts I have gathered, mainly from Michael, is that I believe it's not a counterfit.
These are counterfeits -- I've never doubted that. But since few of us can afford to purchase a genuine copy of the game, these are, unfortunately, the next best thing. I was going to buy one, but then I decided not to.

The biggest problem, as I see it, is the fact that unscrupulous sellers will attempt to sell this as a genuine item.

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: If it weren't for these boards, or for randomly reading an old discussion archived at the TurboList (R.I.P.) , I would be the sad soul who would pay $300 for a counterfeit Sapphire.

I stopped purchasing Gameboy / GBA games on ebay because there is a deluge of counterfeit items and there is no way to filter out the bad sellers (why? because otherwise honest folks are unknowingly re-selling counterfeit games they thought were legit).

So, ultimately, counterfeit items really do far more damage than good. And it breaks my heart to say this, because I still would love to get a counterfeit copy of Sapphire.  

In my heart, I agree with Black_Tiger about the Sapphire counterfeit providing a useful function for the Turbo community ($60 beats $300 pricetag)... but I don't think this "good" outweighs the overhall harm (tears are falling on the keyboard as I type this).

P.S. I'm conflicted over this issue, for sure. As I said, I would love to have an affordable reproduction of the game, and I got THIS CLOSE to buying one from Fudoh. If money wasn't so tight, I'd be holding a copy in my hand right now :). Of course, that wouldn't change how I felt about this issue at all. I'd feel guilty for compromising my principles, but then again, I'd be able to play Sapphire.
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Michael Helgeson

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I Purchased Sapphire!
« Reply #102 on: October 01, 2005, 11:20:02 AM »
You shouldnt feel guilty at all,as I do  not think Hudson would care one way or the other about fans just wanting to play the game.
Also,the disc manufacturer,Care4Data,did anyone try to get ahold of one of their pressing plants to see if they can still do pressings for PC Engine?
ANd yea,really,I dont care to own Sapphire,but looking at my friends 2 copies,unless you would have a original infront of you,I dont think anyone could tell,you would think its real,wether real or not,I think 60 bucks is a great deal for a real pressed disc of a very rare game.It not like he is selling cd-rs.Your still getting a great quality product for what its worth.

esteban

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« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2005, 12:18:01 PM »
Quote from: "Michael Helgeson"
You shouldnt feel guilty at all,as I do  not think Hudson would care one way or the other about fans just wanting to play the game.
Ahh, let me clarify: When I said I would feel guilty, I would feel guilty because I had violated my own principles (by supporting counterfeiters, who do more harm than good, IMO) simply because I wanted to play a game (a rather selfish reason to deviate from one's own principles).

If I buy this game, I'm contributing to the "greater harm" simply for the sake of my own selfish good.

I'm not trying to convince agree with me :). I'm simply explaining where I stand on this issue, and how I struggle with my DESIRE vs. my ethics.

I'd purchase a pirated multi-cart, for example, because it makes no pretensions at being a genuine item. Not so with Sapphire. Or maybe I wouldn't purchase a multi-cart. I don't know...
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Michael Helgeson

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« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2005, 01:37:21 PM »
Look at it this way,your keeping the rare multi carts and bootlegs of wonderful shooters from filling landfills,and overall keeping polution down in the process.Where will it all go if you guys dont buy the good bootlegs.I agree with you to some aspects,current stuff Id never pay for.But rare carts of stuff I would,or a cool looking bootleg that has nice artwork or something,that would make it stand out other then the simple fact its a clone.And a real pressed 100 percent working disc,Id go for that too of a out of print game thats 5 + years old.My friend Eric,he has alot of MegaDrive carts that are fakes,like Contra Hard Corps,which has Duke Nukem for the front cover,making it funny to look at.Stuff like that is great to collect and overall laugh at.Plus its really cool to take them apart and see the reverse enginering that is done.I got him afew Famicom carts a couple years ago,including one that had SF2 on it.For 8 bit bootlegged SF,it was really close as far as the Nes/Fami is concerned.
I did however hate bootlegged Neo carts,and cart converts for Neo.I dotn approve of them,because you can just as easily use a MVS and Super Gun.Sooner or later,there wont be enough of  lets say "rare MVS cart A"
to go around because the majority of them have been converted.Ninja Masters and Kazuna Encounter are 2 carts that come to mind for the MVS that this has happened to.