Author Topic: FM music or PSG music?  (Read 2329 times)

Black Tiger

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2009, 01:24:01 PM »
Keep in mind by PSG, I specifically mean the PCE or the SCC (konami) chip ones, I don't mean the NES or SMS.  Those two PSGs are in a league of their own especially since they're at a slight disadvantage when you compare them to the PCE/SCC PSG. 

  RTYPE FM
  RTYPE PSG


Some NES and SMS games sound as good as or better than 16-bit console games at times.

Emulation isn't very good for comparing PCE PSG sound, especially games like R-Type.


Quote
As far as PSG vs FM, hard to say.  Both can be used wrongly, but FM done wrong sounds much worse than PSG done wrong.  I think it takes more skill and talent to make FM sound right, but since PSG has such a narrow range of sounds, almost anyone can make it sound fine.  Pretty much the only thing that differentiates most PSG tracks is the actual composition.  When they are both done right, they are both awesome, but I think I prefer FM done right as it has much more bass and seems to have a much broader spectrum of sounds as well as frequency response.  However all FM versions of R-Type I have heard simply doesn't even compare to the PCE version!


There is a good variety of PCE PSG sounds, even if there isn't nearly as much variety of games using different types of sounds. From what I've heard about PCE development, I think that it was a lack of skill and talent (and/or tools) that limited PCE PSG from having more variety more often.


I have a hard time with the music in Air Zonk.  I think it is mainly because of the ultra-scratchy drums and other scratchy digitized sounds used in the music.  The composition of the music itself is good in some stages, but it is no masterpiece.

Jackie Chan's Action Kung-Fu (and boy oh boy is it ever action packed!) has some fantastic PSG.


Although I love Air Zonk's music, I still cannot get into Jackie Chan's. I'm hoping that once I have the time to play through the game again that it'll sink in, but after trying so many times, I can't listen to the tracks for very long before skipping on to other ones and then to another game altogether. I had the same problem with Legendary Axe II for years, but finally came to appreciate it. Not coincidentally, both are games I only played through as rentals back in the day.



PCE PSG is my favorite of pre-sample based sound. I love all pre-SNES system generated sound and then the SNES/GBA to a lesser extent. I don't really look at it as a matter of which is better, for me it's all just different. I still have preferences with cross-platform games, Ys III probably sounds best on Famicom other than the PCE CD music (at times it even surpasses it). The Fantasy Zone music hidden in Super Fantasy Zone is better than everything including the arcade. Although I've always been disappointed with the plain sounds used in SFII' PCE, the compositions make it my favorite SFII soundtrack and it still sounds good. I prefer good SMS PSG over good NES PSG. Of course I like the SMS overall more as well. :wink:

Genesis FM is awesome when done right, but I find that it's not so often done wrong so much as imperfect. Sometimes the instruments will be unbalanced or effort was only put into the main riff or something. The sound difference in hardware variations only complicates things further (thank god it's been sorted out).

Just as most/many developers didn't push PCE visuals in the same ways as Genesis and SNES games (for reasons discussed many times before) most seemed content to put out great music without trying to go the extra mile creating unique sounds or using the PCE's samples capability well. The general attitude between HuCard and CD projects likely didn't help. Thankfully there's lots of cool unique sounding stuff out there if you play enough games and overall an amazing amount of quality music. SFX seem to have a better variety than music and many PCE PSG sound tests sound the same as a Genesis game sound test.

Some people have been discussing and/or judging the sound types themselves and/or the actual music. The PCE is my favorite for both. As for "redbook" music, not only do I love PCE CD music, I think that game soundtracks have gone downhill ever since. Some may not be as good as they could be, but like PCE PSG there is just so much unbelievable music regardless of the instruments used, but there is also a tonne of perfect sounding games that will never age (Ys III, Kabukiden, Gate of Thunder, Neo Nectaris, Lords of Thunder, Monster Lair, etc).


Some PCE music samples that use sounds that are not just "beeps and boops", sometimes referred to as "FM-like":
http://superpcenginegrafx.com/misc/pce_sounds.mp3
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Joe Redifer

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2009, 01:35:58 PM »
Quote from: Black Tiger

not only do I love PCE CD music, I think that game soundtracks have gone downhill ever since.


Thank you!!!  I couldn't agree more if I tried.  That is not to say there haven't been some great game soundtracks since then, but they are so few and far between.  These days game music is mainly just ambient or it tries to be a movie score.  Rarely is there anything memorable and even more rarely is there anything worth buying a soundtrack for (or recording directly from the game itself).

Tatsujin

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2009, 01:41:41 PM »
the SMS in all honor, but if I can't stand something then it is the earsplitting blibblubb PSG of that machine. sure there're some rare exeption like wonderboy III -  dragons trap, but in generally the SMS PSG sound was horrible, esspecially compared to FC/NES or c64 SID.
in this particular case, i'm such glad that I can switch to FM for most of the mark III games.
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Tatsujin

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2009, 01:47:46 PM »
Quote from: Black Tiger

not only do I love PCE CD music, I think that game soundtracks have gone downhill ever since.


Thank you!!!  I couldn't agree more if I tried.  That is not to say there haven't been some great game soundtracks since then, but they are so few and far between.  These days game music is mainly just ambient or it tries to be a movie score.  Rarely is there anything memorable and even more rarely is there anything worth buying a soundtrack for (or recording directly from the game itself).

QFT!

the main problem is, that the game soundtracks of later generations are no typical game musics anymore. as you said, they tried too much to sound like real music or some typical movie scores.

even the pce had a lot of "almost real" musics like in GoT or WoT, but it still does express the typical game style of music. that wht i'm missing the most nowadays.

the PSone and SS era still had it in some games like guilty gear, ridge racer etc. and of course in some of the arcade shooties.
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ccovell

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2009, 04:39:18 PM »
by the way, doesn't fall FM also in the category of PSG? the term PSG just stands for Programmable Sound Generator...

Yeah, but you're missing the point.  It's what gamers and the industry used.  Anyway, to distinguish the different types of audio outputs, most Japanese companies use PSG < WSG < FM < PCM, plus "noise" as an extra feature or sound channel.

The PCE is technically WSG, as the waveforms can be freely defined.

Arkhan

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2009, 08:27:39 AM »
even the pce had a lot of "almost real" musics like in GoT or WoT, but it still does express the typical game style of music. that wht i'm missing the most nowadays.

almost real?  I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone actual played guitar in a studio setting for the music in those games.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Tatsujin

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2009, 09:08:00 AM »
even the pce had a lot of "almost real" musics like in GoT or WoT, but it still does express the typical game style of music. that wht i'm missing the most nowadays.

almost real?  I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone actual played guitar in a studio setting for the music in those games.

i mean, that it wasn't supossed to be "real" music but still "game" music. which was/is awesome.
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Arkhan

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2009, 09:40:53 AM »
even the pce had a lot of "almost real" musics like in GoT or WoT, but it still does express the typical game style of music. that wht i'm missing the most nowadays.

almost real?  I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone actual played guitar in a studio setting for the music in those games.

i mean, that it wasn't supossed to be "real" music but still "game" music. which was/is awesome.

ohhhh. :)
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Digi.k

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2009, 10:42:12 AM »
dusted off the pc engine and fired up some sound testing cause of this thread..  :-"


should be able to play it without the need to download .. (I hope, just click on the black bar that appears).. anyway some short mp3's

1943kai
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=1943kai.mp3

bomberman
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=bombermanmp3.mp3

pc kid
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=bonkmp3.mp3

http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=pckid.mp3     


Cadash             
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=cadash.mp3

parasol stars
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=parasolstars.mp3

pc kid 2
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=pckid2.mp3

detana twin bee
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=twinbeeending.mp3

ninja spirit
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=audio&file=4481ninjaspirit.mp3
           

maybe i'm going mad but I always thought the pc engine sounded warmer the longer you left it on.. or maybe its my amp?
               


                       
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 11:17:11 AM by Digi.k »

Ravij

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2009, 01:52:39 PM »
but still nothing can beat the good old SID chip from the c64, when it comes to uniqueness and warmness, even it was very limited in channels etc. :)

I'm a SID fan too, although I never had a C64.

There are a few Megadrive FM tunes I like a lot - Strider springs to mind for one.

Tatsujin

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2009, 03:05:57 PM »
but still nothing can beat the good old SID chip from the c64, when it comes to uniqueness and warmness, even it was very limited in channels etc. :)


I'm a SID fan too, although I never had a C64.

There are a few Megadrive FM tunes I like a lot - Strider springs to mind for one.


oh yeah. strider has very goof use of FM.

btw. spreading some SID LOVE :)

http://www.hvsc.c64.org/

&

http://www.brothersoft.com/deliplayer-62987.html

= LOVE!! :D

use the simpleskin and via rightclick [Play] you can choose also the sub songs :)
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sunteam_paul

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2009, 04:18:18 AM »
FM fans might enjoy this Youtube channel I just discovered.
The PC Engine Software Bible
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Black Tiger

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2009, 08:53:23 AM »
FM fans might enjoy this Youtube channel I just discovered.


Awesome. :clap: Thanks for the link.
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Tatsujin

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2009, 02:26:02 AM »
FM fans might enjoy this Youtube channel I just discovered.


Awesome. :clap: Thanks for the link.


wonderful - wunderbar  :clap:

reminds me of how cool the FM in shadow dancer was/is :)

:edit:

the mystic defender is great. it's almost untouched from the MD version. lol.. one of the best MD FM BGMs in existence. it really used the FM of the MD at its max. power! :clap:
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 03:51:30 AM by Tatsujin »
www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

esteban

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Re: FM music or PSG music?
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2009, 06:06:47 PM »
I agree that PSG (or FM) can sound better than bad redbook.  In the early days of CD gaming, companies had piss-poor musical abilities.  R-Type HuCard sounds a billion times better than R-Type CD.


I can only refer you to this. I have used the same argument to defend PCE's Double Dragon II Red Book, as well.  Variety is the spice of life :).

« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 07:07:46 PM by esteban »
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