FM music or PSG music?

[esteban]

Anyway, to distinguish the different types of audio outputs, most Japanese companies use PSG < WSG < FM < PCM, plus "noise" as an extra feature or sound channel.

The PCE is technically WSG, as the waveforms can be freely defined.

Do you have a link to more resources on WSG / PSG distinction?

Also, how does the PCE differ from Gameboy/Famicom in terms of "PSG"?

I want to learn... even the most basic info on console/computer sound would be helpful. Thanks in advance

I had the same problem with Legendary Axe II for years, but finally came to appreciate it.

I think that was simply a matter of personal taste. Exposure certainly is a factor, but I can tell you that I only recently (last few years) began appreciating most tunes in JJ & Jeff. Back in the day, I thought nearly all of the songs were GOOFY and juvenile and uninspired. Back then, I was looking for music that I thought was "kool", and JJ & Jeff failed to deliver.

Now, today, I can appreciate JJ & Jeff's music for what it is, without expecting it to have a brooding, kick-ass soundtrack like that of Legendary Axe II. Man, back in the day, I wanted every game to be like LAII... whether it was appropriate or not to a game's setting/atmosphere.





 
IN DEFENSE OF REDBOOK THAT EMPLOYS CRAPPY-SOUNDING SYNTHS

A few years ago, I remember Paranoia_Dragon mentioning that he was not a fan of the Telenet "house-band sound" because  he had a particularly tough time with the keyboards/synthesizers (which were very 80's, aesthetically).

I totally understand this.

It really is an issue of personal preference. If 80's synths sound cheezy/lame to you, then it is hard to overlook synth-heavy music in a lot of PCE Red Book.

Personally, I really love the Telenet "house-band sound" (I refer directly to Valis series/Red Alert/Final Zone II/Avenger/Psychic Storm/Lady Phantom/etc.), but I understand that it will never be everyone's cup of tea.

[nat]

I'm with you, I've always regarded the Telenet "house-band sound" as one of the company's definite strengths-- regardless of the overall game quality, I can almost always rely on Telenet for great music.

[Arkhan]

Anyway, to distinguish the different types of audio outputs, most Japanese companies use PSG < WSG < FM < PCM, plus "noise" as an extra feature or sound channel.

The PCE is technically WSG, as the waveforms can be freely defined.

Do you have a link to more resources on WSG / PSG distinction?

Also, how does the PCE differ from Gameboy/Famicom in terms of "PSG"?

I want to learn... even the most basic info on console/computer sound would be helpful. Thanks in advance

WSG means each channels waveform is userdefinable.

on the game boy , two channels are square-wave only, one is user definable, and the other is noise.

on the NES, there aren't any user definable waveforms.  You have 2 pulsewaves, a triangle, a noise, and a PCM channel.

You can edit the parameters, but it's not the same as being able to define the waveform from start to finish like on PCE.

[ccovell]

Anyway, to distinguish the different types of audio outputs, most Japanese companies use PSG < WSG < FM < PCM, plus "noise" as an extra feature or sound channel.

The PCE is technically WSG, as the waveforms can be freely defined.

Do you have a link to more resources on WSG / PSG distinction?

Also, how does the PCE differ from Gameboy/Famicom in terms of "PSG"?

I can't find any outside resources that explain different types of computer-generated audio; probably the general public has no idea what the difference is between systems like the NES, SMS, GB, and PCE.

Generally, PSG is used to describe chips that generate primitive waveforms, such as sine waves, square waves, sawtooth waves, triangle waves, and random noise.

WSG lets one wavelength be freely defined, allowing any shape and quality of a repetitive waveform.  It's more advanced than PSG, of course, but still pretty limiting in complexity.

FM, of course, has sine waves as the basic waveform, but has several layers of operators to adjust the dynamic overtones/frequency of the resulting sound.

PCM usually means an ability to stream samples at varying frequencies and of any length -- limited by memory.

---

Of course, the NES has a dedicated DPCM channel, as well as the ability to have samples streamed through the same channel, but the other 4 of its channels are PSG.  Systems like the NES, SMS, SID, etc have the ability to play samples, but most people don't call all of its audio PCM.  Perhaps it's because of the extreme CPU overhead needed to play samples (PCM would usually mean dedicated hardware to stream samples without CPU hand-holding), or perhaps it's because 1 channel of PCM can't be seriously called PCM capability -- you can't really make music with 1-note sample poly(mono?)phony.

The Game Boy has, what, 3 PSG channels and one WSG channel.  People seldom notice it, but it does sound pretty good in the right hands.  In the wrong hands, it's just made into another static triangle channel to copy the NES' layout.

If anyone finds errors or disagrees with the above, please explain why.

[Tom]

WSG is a great term for PCE's audio hardware. PSG is programmable sound Generation or pulse sound generation. But it's a generic term.

 Most PSG is just square tones/waves. The look like this ____---- . On NES you can change the duty to __------ and _------- to change the sound of the tone some what. The NES also has a triangle channel, although there's no volume control and the steps are kinda rough - but atleast you have a bass line channel. And most/all PSG systems have noise channel output. SMS is severely limited in PSG, 3 none changeable square channels and 1 noise channel. No duty cycles or triangle channel, and noise channel only has 1 period value unless you sacrifice a square channel period divider so you can change it's values - making it a 2 square + 1 noise in that mode.

 Like Chris said, NES also has a DPCM channel. It feeds itself which is super nice for a low mhz CPU. But the sound is very filtered due to it being 1bit delta PCM. Still, SMB3 used it for some good samples. NES has some pretty good PSG out of the box.

 FM is a totally different beast. Technically, it's pretty simple in execution. On the Genesis and most Yamaha chips, it's just a sinewave. Some wave forms. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Waveforms.svg/760px-Waveforms.svg.png

 FM just oscillates the sinewave at really high frequencies. It creates overtones. If you vary the amount of oscillation of the frequencies, you get brighter and duller "timbre".  That's the basics of it. Some FM chips has different waveforms for the output or the oscillating modifier, but the Genesis only has sine. So you don't get some of those PSG or WSG type sounds, but you do get really nice low bassy sounds. This is why FM on the Genesis and NEC PC's have a really distinct sound. Compared to a Yamaha keyboard, which has much more options and FX amps you can run the keyboard through. Genesis FM by itself has poor noise generation too, but it can use the SMS channels and often does (SOR uses the SMS PSG chip quite a bit. That lead in the opening is PSG).

 PCE's audio is similar to PSG in that is has no "timbre" control like FM, but you can write whatever type of waveform want. It also have a really high frequency divider. Regardless of the output tone, the resolution is 3.58mhz steps. PCE also has two volume controls per channel, which is really nice. One is mono, 5bit value but logarithmic (which is what you want), and the second one is pan: 4bit log values for each left/right. The mono volume control is usually for software volume envelope handling. Anyway, with custom waveforms - you can do sine, square, saw, triangle, and a ton of others that I have no idea what they are called.

 You can do filtering type effects on the PCE too. To give it a "timbre" type of bend that most synths have, by updating the channel's waveform with a gradual changing/morphing one. The only game that comes close to this that I've seen is Bloody Wolf. Other things you can do is mid range frequency modulation and mid range amplitude modulation using the 7khz timer chip - and even "sync" where it resets the waveform pointer without turning off the channel. Again, never even seen this in any chiptune engines yet. And lastly, you've got single channel sample writing *with* volume control still.

 .... what were we talking about?

[esteban]

Thank you, gentlemen, for filling in the technical details for the PCE, SMS, NES and Genny. If anyone wants to add further info (or oddities), go for it.

The Game Boy has, what, 3 PSG channels and one WSG channel.  People seldom notice it, but it does sound pretty good in the right hands. In the wrong hands, it's just made into another static triangle channel to copy the NES' layout.

I agree: the Gameboy is certainly capable of delivering some great, well-crafted tunes.

You can do filtering type effects on the PCE too. To give it a "timbre" type of bend that most synths have, by updating the channel's waveform with a gradual changing/morphing one. The only game that comes close to this that I've seen is Bloody Wolf.

Thanks for pointing out Bloody Wolf's use of filtering effects.

In your estimation, what other titles employ unique/sophisticated techniques for music (or even sound effects, which we have not really discussed).

Thanks in advance...

[Joe Redifer]

Here's some game music I recorded myself from real hardware:

PSG (TurboGrafx-16):



FM: (Sega Genesis) (Sounds waaaaay better than the arcade)

[esteban]

Here's some game music I recorded myself from real hardware:

PSG (TurboGrafx-16):

FM: (Sega Genesis)

(Sounds waaaaay better than the arcade)

Great stuff. I commented over on YouTube. I suppose I should have commented here, though. I'll never get sick of SOR 1/2, though. It sounds even cleaner than I remember it.

PS: Please honor my request!

[Tatsujin]

I agree: the Gameboy is certainly capable of delivering some great, well-crafted tunes.

especially when Konami had its fingers in!!

[Joe Redifer]

I'll be glad to post more tunes.  Some PC Engine games give me a hard time due to their lack of sound tests and stages that let me be with only the music playing and no other sound effects going on, though.

[esteban]

I'll be glad to post more tunes.  Some PC Engine games give me a hard time due to their lack of sound tests and stages that let me be with only the music playing and no other sound effects going on, though.

Absolutely. Lack of a soundtest stinks.

 

[Tatsujin]

I'll be glad to post more tunes.  Some PC Engine games give me a hard time due to their lack of sound tests and stages that let me be with only the music playing and no other sound effects going on, though.

Absolutely. Lack of a soundtest stinks.

 

sometimes they are hidden

[Black Tiger]

Flash cards are worth buying just to play PCE sound roms on real hardware.

[Tatsujin]

is there a HES player implemented on the flash card?

[Tom]

. Mednafen rocks for PCE audio accuracy.