Issue with TG16 Composite video output.

[Seiryu]

First of all, let me say that this is my first post and I just joined these forums.  I just recently learned of this site's existence and I'm pleasantly surprised to learn that there are other people out there who still love the TurboGrafx.  Now, on to my issue.

I own 3 TurboGrafxs, and 2 of the CD add-ons.  I also have a TurboExpress, but that is irrelevant to the rest of this post.  Everything I own is the US versions.

One of the CD players does not seem to work at all.  It does not spin when a disc is in it and the light on it does not turn on, it appears to be completely dead.  I really don't know how to describe the problem well enough for anyone to suggest ways to fix this.  I was thinking that perhaps the motor that makes the discs spin may be burned out, or after reading some other threads on here that it could be the problem of the gears wearing down.  Could someone maybe describe the symptoms of a system with worn down gears so I can figure out if that is the issue?

The second issue (the one from the topic title) afflicts both CD bases (or PowerBase, or whatever the official name is).  It started on my original system first, which is why I bought the second one, then a couple months after purchasing it the issue appeared on the second one as well.  When outputing video over the composite cable the picture is not displayed properly, though the audio seems to be fine.  The problem seems to be intermittent, but occurs more often then not.  In fact, I have only had it work properly once since seeing the problem appear, which conveniently enough was when I tried to show the problem to someone else.  I'll try to get a photo of the screen to show what is happening and add that later, but for now I will just describe the output.  First of all, the image is in black and white.  The picture looks as if it was cut down the center, then the left and right sides were swapped, and everything is constantly scrolling upwards, kind of like a TV with bad vertical hold.

Everything still works fine when I output over RF, but I would much prefer to use composite as it gives a better quality image (when it works) and my TV only has one RF input which I prefer to keep available for when I want to hook up something that only supports RF (such as the NES top-loader).

I used to work as a PC technician and I am very comfortable with taking apart electronics, so I am willing to try any suggestions that could fix this problem.  I really hope to be able to fix one or both of these issues, as I already spent about $230 on my first replacement system and really don't want to have to buy a third CD player.  I have been considering getting a TurboDuo, but can't really afford to right now.

Thanks in advance to anyone that is able to offer any help, and I apologize if this issue has been discussed before.  I tried to search the forum but wasn't sure what to use as my search criteria, and couldn't find anything.  If this has been discussed before then please give me a link to the older topic.

EDIT: Here's a picture of the screen:
EDIT AGAIN: Took some better pictures:

[nat]

I've never heard of this problem, and I've repaired many TurboGrafx decks in my day. At the risk of stating the obvious, have you considered that perhaps your TV has an intermittent problem on the composite inputs?

Also, have you tried a different composite cable, etc?

[Seiryu]

I've never heard of this problem, and I've repaired many TurboGrafx decks in my day. At the risk of stating the obvious, have you considered that perhaps your TV has an intermittent problem on the composite inputs?

Also, have you tried a different composite cable, etc?

Ah, I meant to mention this in the original post.  I've tried a few different composite cables and the problem appears on all of them.  I've also tried connecting it to all of the inputs on both my receiver (5 inputs) and directly on my TV (2 inputs), and it appeared in every single one.  I even went so far as to connect the system to a different TV, and the problem still persisted there.  Also, everything else I have hooked up works perfectly fine.  I only have 6 things connected at the moment, with one of them being composite, but in the past I have had as many as 17 things connected via various switch-boxes and the like, and of those 17 I think 4-5 were composite.  I believe that I have safely ruled out some other device being the culprit, and can say with a fair amount of certainty that the issue does lie with the TurboGrafxs.  I too thought that it was odd that the problem presented itself on two different systems since I had heard that TurboGrafx generally had a low failure rate and was one of the most reliable systems, so my first instinct was the same as yours, to blame some other device for the issue.

[nat]

In that case, you certainly have awful luck. This is not a known problem, certainly not one that I've ever heard of. I've physically worked on close to 100 different units personally, while remote troubleshooting even more than that. I'd be extremely interested on hearing the resolution of this when you get to that point.

Does wiggling the composite video connector at the console while in operation have any effect on the distorted image? If so, you could be looking at a bad video jack or something to that effect.

[D-Lite]

Rolling, black & white, and whatnot sounds like a sync problem and probably not with the TG decks.  There's little chance you have this exact same problem with both systems as you and nat have said.  No doubt you're seeing it, that's not what I'm saying.  But the problem has to be caused by something else as has also been alluded to.  Are you using the original power supply?  If so, have you tested it for proper output?  Do you have a TurboBooster to test the composite output directly from the TG16? 

One last thing.  You're not using a gray PAL TG16 are you   ?

[esteban]

One last thing.  You're not using a gray PAL TG16 are you   ?

If this is the solution...

Alternatively, is there any chance that something is causing EMI/RFI/ground loop?

A long shot, but...

[Seiryu]

Does wiggling the composite video connector at the console while in operation have any effect on the distorted image? If so, you could be looking at a bad video jack or something to that effect.

Wiggling the cable seems to do nothing at all.

Rolling, black & white, and whatnot sounds like a sync problem and probably not with the TG decks.  There's little chance you have this exact same problem with both systems as you and nat have said.  No doubt you're seeing it, that's not what I'm saying.  But the problem has to be caused by something else as has also been alluded to.  Are you using the original power supply?  If so, have you tested it for proper output?  Do you have a TurboBooster to test the composite output directly from the TG16? 

One last thing.  You're not using a gray PAL TG16 are you   ?

They are all US consoles, and I do not have a TurboBooster.
As for the power supply, it hadn't even occurred to me that that could be the problem.  Upon giving it some though, I believe I kept using the same power supply when I received the new console rather than swapping it for the new one, so that is a constant between both systems that are having the issue.  Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me recall where any other power supplies are (I should have 3, I think), so I will have to do some digging to be able to test out that theory.  I am kind of confused as to how the new system was able to work for a couple months before displaying symptoms if the power supply is indeed the problem, unless the bad power supply actually caused damage to the console itself in which case swapping the power supply now may still not fix the problem.
I'm not really sure how to go about testing the power supply for proper output, so could you tell me what I would need to do that?

Alternatively, is there any chance that something is causing EMI/RFI/ground loop?

A long shot, but...

Er... Um... I'm not entirely sure I know what that is, but if it is what I think it is then I don't think it is the problem.

[Charlie]

The only time I have seen this problem (multiple times), which was on the TE, was when I disturbed the HuCard while the game was running.  So either the various cards have their pins in various stages of corrosion and/or dirt, or the socket on the TE itself is dirty.  In either case, I usually re-seat the card and recycle the power.

I should point out, however, that the "quad" screen is usually a case of 4 dups of the original screen; that is, the horizontal and vertical resolutions seem to have doubled.

 Don't know if that is actually the case, or even if it applies to your problem.

Good luck
Charlie

[BlackandBlue]

As for your issue with the cd deck, it could either be the gear for teh cd track is stuck or the laser is dead.  To see if the cd gear is stuck, open up the unit and move the circuit board out of the way.  There are 2 ribbon cables that need to be removed.  Then gently move the gears (the only ones in the unit, there are 3 in succession).  It will move the laser on the track.  Try not to use force on the middle gear as it shreds easily.  If it is already missing its teeth, that is probably the issue.  Once you know the track will be able to move, pop it back together as see if it works.  You can see the guide I posted later on to see how to disassemble the unit.  While its open, might as well grease the gears.

Here is a recent thread about the gear getting stuck.

If it still doesn't work, open up the cd unit (as if you were going to put a cd in it) and use a paperclip out thin screwdriver to hold in the door switch (you will see the hole to the front of the unit on the side with the LCD).  Try to start it up as if you were going to play a game and see if you can see the red light in the lens.  I assume you know not to stare directly into the light and to look at it from an angle.  If you do not see a led light, laser is probably toast and needs to be replaced.  You can follow my handy dandy guide if you feel up to it.

[Seiryu]

Are you using the original power supply?  If so, have you tested it for proper output?

I just did a little checking online to make sure I knew what I was doing, since I was kind of afraid I was going to electrocute myself, but now I have tested the output of the power supply with my multimeter.  The output written on the power supply is 11 DCV, but the reading I got from it was about 15.5 DCV.  I know it is normal for it to read a little higher than what is printed, but a difference of 4.5 seems like a lot.  Is it possible that this is the problem?  Do you think that the system being over loaded could somehow damage the composite video output, since the video output and the power input are so close together on the unit?

I plan to take apart the CD base to see if there are any obvious issues inside, such as parts that have burned or melted due to overloading, but I don't have the right bit to remove the security screws that hold it together.  Luckily for me there is a video game specialty store nearby that sells the bit I would need, but I don't think I will be able to make a trip there until this weekend.  Does anyone know what size the screws in the CD base are?

The only time I have seen this problem (multiple times), which was on the TE, was when I disturbed the HuCard while the game was running.  So either the various cards have their pins in various stages of corrosion and/or dirt, or the socket on the TE itself is dirty.  In either case, I usually re-seat the card and recycle the power.

This seems to happen no matter what game I am trying to play, and I try to keep my games in good condition.  All the games I own are clean and have nice shiny pins.  If the problem was corrosion or dirt on the actual console, then I would think that it would be a constant problem and not just an issue when using composite output.

I should point out, however, that the "quad" screen is usually a case of 4 dups of the original screen; that is, the horizontal and vertical resolutions seem to have doubled.

The screen is not four smaller duplicates of the original screen, it is the original screen split into four sections then shuffled around.  I can't really show it in a still picture, but in the picture above just imaging that the black line horizontally across the screen is constantly scrolling upwards and looping back to the bottom when it reaches the top.

Don't know if that is actually the case, or even if it applies to your problem.

Good luck
Charlie

Yeah, it would seem that that is not the case, but thanks for trying anyway.

As for your issue with the cd deck, it could either be the gear for teh cd track is stuck or the laser is dead.  To see if the cd gear is stuck, open up the unit and move the circuit board out of the way.  There are 2 ribbon cables that need to be removed.  Then gently move the gears (the only ones in the unit, there are 3 in succession).  It will move the laser on the track.  Try not to use force on the middle gear as it shreds easily.  If it is already missing its teeth, that is probably the issue.  Once you know the track will be able to move, pop it back together as see if it works.  You can see the guide I posted later on to see how to disassemble the unit.  While its open, might as well grease the gears.

Here is a recent thread about the gear getting stuck.

If it still doesn't work, open up the cd unit (as if you were going to put a cd in it) and use a paperclip out thin screwdriver to hold in the door switch (you will see the hole to the front of the unit on the side with the LCD).  Try to start it up as if you were going to play a game and see if you can see the red light in the lens.  I assume you know not to stare directly into the light and to look at it from an angle.  If you do not see a led light, laser is probably toast and needs to be replaced.  You can follow my handy dandy guide if you feel up to it.

I think I may have made some progress on this, or I am just remembering the issue incorrectly.  When I looked at the CD player I noticed that the laser was all the way at the far end of the track, so I gently moved it back to the center then tried turning it on.  The PC light on the top does light up now (I could have sworn that it did not before), but the disc does not spin up and instead the screen just hangs on the "please wait a moment" loading screen.

Upon opening up the CD player the first thing I noticed is that the plastic connector that the smaller of the two ribbon cables goes into is cracked, making it so that you can remove it all the way instead of just sliding it down to remove the cable.  It seems to hold in place as long as you don't bother it, but I don't know if this is affecting the connection made by the ribbon cable.

The gears seemed to be a bit stiff, like they may have been jammed, but when I gently rotated them they came loose and now seem to move freely as they are supposed to.  They all appear to be in tact, so the issue is not the gears being worn, but they look like they could probably use some new lubricant, though I don't have the slightest clue what to use for that.

Lastly (and likely what the issue is), I checked the laser like you said to do, and it does not appear to be giving off any light.  I would really like it to not be a dead laser, as the guide you linked looks big, and scary, and I suck at soldering, but if I must replace parts I think I can probably manage.  My only question is this, where do you get the replacement parts?  I tried searching on Google for KSS-220a, but didn't find much in the way of reliable vendors to purchase one from.

[nat]

After seeing the photo of your video problem, I am now virtually certain you are dealing with a device issue in a device other than your TurboGrafx, as I originally thought. I can't explain why the problem persists on your different TVs, when you use different cables, etc. On the other hand, it's even more strange that in my 20+ years with the console (a number of those spent actively repairing systems for people) I've never seen this problem on any deck until you show up with 2 exhibiting the same symptoms. IIRC, 15.5 DCV is the correct output for that power supply but I'd make it my first order of business to track down another one and give it a try before anything else.

Lastly (and likely what the issue is), I checked the laser like you said to do, and it does not appear to be giving off any light.  I would really like it to not be a dead laser, as the guide you linked looks big, and scary, and I suck at soldering, but if I must replace parts I think I can probably manage.  My only question is this, where do you get the replacement parts?  I tried searching on Google for KSS-220a, but didn't find much in the way of reliable vendors to purchase one from.

Your best bet is to get one out of an old Discman, such as the ones I have listed here. It's highly unlikely you'll find a brand new laser of the proper type at anything approaching a reasonable price, so just hit up eBay for a Discman in good condition at a good price and go with it.

[D-Lite]

I've never seen anything like this either like nat said.  It's just odd that you're getting it on multiple set-ups and TVs. 

Not sure, but I'm starting to wonder if it's something like a burnt/dry cap in the TGCD base.  Caps usually are the heart of all issues and since the TG16 puts out fine through the RF connection, I'm wondering if something in the bases you have is fried.  If so that should be easy to fix.  Bust that sucker open!

[BlackandBlue]

Lastly (and likely what the issue is), I checked the laser like you said to do, and it does not appear to be giving off any light.  I would really like it to not be a dead laser, as the guide you linked looks big, and scary, and I suck at soldering, but if I must replace parts I think I can probably manage.  My only question is this, where do you get the replacement parts?  I tried searching on Google for KSS-220a, but didn't find much in the way of reliable vendors to purchase one from.

Your best bet is to get one out of an old Discman, such as the ones I have listed here. It's highly unlikely you'll find a brand new laser of the proper type at anything approaching a reasonable price, so just hit up eBay for a Discman in good condition at a good price and go with it.

I would do what Nat says, if you can find a used discman from his thread. 

If you can't find one, I bought my replacement laser from ebay as it was the only place I could find that had it in stock.  I originally ordered from Electronix.com (had to get a bunch of caps to fix my turbo express anyway), but they called after 3 weeks to tell me it was on backorder and they had no idea when it would come in.  Not sure if they ever got replenished there.

[Seiryu]

After seeing the photo of your video problem, I am now virtually certain you are dealing with a device issue in a device other than your TurboGrafx, as I originally thought. I can't explain why the problem persists on your different TVs, when you use different cables, etc. On the other hand, it's even more strange that in my 20+ years with the console (a number of those spent actively repairing systems for people) I've never seen this problem on any deck until you show up with 2 exhibiting the same symptoms. IIRC, 15.5 DCV is the correct output for that power supply but I'd make it my first order of business to track down another one and give it a try before anything else.

Just for the sake of wanting to play with my new camera, I recorded a video of the screen now as well. 
However, that video is kind of pointless now.  I don't really now how to say this without sounding like an idiot but... I'm an idiot.
I know I exhausted every possible option by testing it in all the ways I described above... I just know I did.  I did this all a few months ago when the first system started having issues, because I wanted buying a new system to be a last resort.   Just out of curiosity since everyone was saying it looked like it was an issue with something other than the TurboGrafx, I tested it again.  Guess what... It worked.  I am completely confused now, but for some unexplainable reason it now works when I hook it directly into the TV, making it seem as though the issue is with my receiver.  I tried to fiddle with the options on the receiver to fix the issue, but it appears to already be set to just pass the video signal without doing any scaling, so I don't know what the issue is.  I guess there may be some sort of scaling that can't be disabled being done when it converts the signal from composite to HDMI to pass it to the TV.  Between this and the fact that it has some sort of issue passing a component video signal from my Wii, I am getting really fed up with this receiver.  Anyway, the video problem seems to be solved for now.  If it turns out that this is just it's intermittent tenancies showing themselves again to mess with me then I will post again if/when the problem reappears I suppose.

Your best bet is to get one out of an old Discman, such as the ones I have listed here. It's highly unlikely you'll find a brand new laser of the proper type at anything approaching a reasonable price, so just hit up eBay for a Discman in good condition at a good price and go with it.

In the comments on that post the D-2 and D-11 are mentioned as being compatible in addition to the 3 listed in the main post.  Is that confirmed?  The cheapest one on Ebay right now seems to be this D-2, but I am hesitant to buy it since the seller can't confirm if it works properly or not.  There are two other auctions that I am watching, one for a D-4 and the other a D-34, which are currently at about the same price as that D-2, so hopefully no one bids on those and I can get one.  What do you think I should do?  Risk getting the D-2 or just wait out the 2 days (approximately) left on the other two auctions and buy one of them?

[nat]

If you can't find one, I bought my replacement laser from ebay as it was the only place I could find that had it in stock.  I originally ordered from Electronix.com (had to get a bunch of caps to fix my turbo express anyway), but they called after 3 weeks to tell me it was on backorder and they had no idea when it would come in.  Not sure if they ever got replenished there.

Doubt it.

That's a good price on those things new through that eBay store, though, that must be a relatively new listing. I wonder where they found those.