Now this is some complete BS right here

[Joe Redifer]

Also keep in mind that the helicopter isn't shooting just to defend itself.  It is shooting to prevent whatever the peeps on the ground might do.  They might try to attack the US military, set up a bunch of IEDs, attack civilians, you never know.  That's why people probably shouldn't be wandering around with highly visible guns over there unless they are military.

[Arkhan]

And being told what it's like and watching a video of what happened is lightyears away from both of those things.  Whether or not Roy saw action is irrelevant, for if you don't believe that serving in the military gives one a better insight into such a situation, then 'blatantly ignorant' is a suitable label for yourself.

Well, whether you've been over there or not... combat experience is alot different than just serving.  I think anyone will attest to that.  I have relatives, friends, and even enemies that all agree. 

I'm not putting Roy down because he served but never fought in a battle and I am not saying hes an idiot or anything.  Someone has to do that shit, and thankfully not EVERYONE over there is a trigger happy idiot that thinks the whole things a big game of counter strike.  I just think that even the people over there doing it don't fully know whats up until they've been shot at, returned fire, seen someone explode, etc.   We could all go to Iraq, fly around base, do the drills, fire our guns at targets, run around in the desert, and hear about encounters from other people, and it isn't going to make us experts on the combat aspect.  Reminds me of a book I read.  Highly educated book taught 2nd Lt or whatever, got all his ranks in class, not in the field, went to nam, blew it due to being combat n00b, and got plugged.

Noone but the dudes in the birds are ACTUALLY, honestly fit to claim expertise.   The rest of us are all just speculating.  Unfortunately, as expertly as they may have been trained, they made asses of themselves.

Prediction: twenty years from now you'll still be crying over the state of union but won't yet have exhausted your supply of excuses for staying.

You act like I'm alone in thinking the country is currently f*cked.   Try looking at the big picture instead of the "omg, must pwn teh fails on teh forums" thing you currently enjoy doing.  I think probably about half the country is, as you put it, "crying over the state of the union".   

f*ck yeah!  Let's label everyone that joins the military as predatory, racist f*ck-ups, mock those who suffer from PTSD or similar mental troubles, and blame the grunts on the ground for the expense, for it surely isn't our duly elected representatives that set their budgets and approve funding. 

I think Zeta was commenting on all of the fresh meat the military preys on at highschools, etc..  Ever dealt with that?  Around here, you get a bunch of meat heads that promise you glory and that youll be a badass if you join the military, and any other choice you make, makes you a pussy.  The current high-school/college recruitment in my hood, is laaaaaaaame.  Definitely not like it used to be.

So everyone currently in school is an idiot, eh?  I guess that includes you, unless your ego is so gargantuan that you believe that you're the sole member of your generation with a level head and capable of critical thinking.  Either way - you fail.

lol wow.  See, unfortunately for you, you are older.  You're not graced with the privilege of hanging out and being immersed in todays youth and being fully aware of whats going on..  As far as who fails here, check your reading skills, and quit assuming things for the benefit of the pwn..  I never said EVERYONE.  Unfortunately, the level headed lot is swimming in a sea of arrogant, lazy, self centered morons with no regard for anything other than themselves.  Drop out/failure rates have shot up considerably, and so has late teen crime conviction.  Couple that with the increase in teen pregnancy and the current unemployment rates, and you get an episode of COPS.

And sooner or later, these idiots are going to be fully integrated with society, with the rights to vote, etc..   The more idiots that get pushed out into the world, the worse it gets.  You know how many white trash, drug taking, crime committing idiots in just my local area are out in the world doing stuff?   Its only going to get worse unless something changes.

So what are you doing, outside of bitching and moaning on the internet (or at the student union/beatnik coffee shop/etc.)?

Probably a hell of a lot more than you who is sitting and badgering people on the internet.  I do habitat for humanity every summer, alot of food drives, I've gone to the crapass areas of Ohio to help clean up trash and fix things up.  Lots of other stuff.    If everyone would climb aboard the changewagon, things might get better, faster. 


And werent the rounds used, 30mm?  I don't really know the range difference, but someone probably does.   Whats its range!  and whats the range on an RPG anyway.

[rag-time4]

a post over at boingboing that expresses how I feel better than I actually can:

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/05/wikileaks-more-backg.html#comments
#14:

But to protect against it, you remove from your military men and women the freedom of choice. They enlist under a contract, which is negated only if they object to all wars, to defend their nation as their President and Congress see fit. So if you're going to hate and lament, do it for the political types who don't have to bleed or watch those they love do so. They're the ones who get you in these messes, these wars of agression.

The rest of us are just down on the ground trying to do the right thing. Be patriots. Be good to all those we can be-- that includes foreign nationals like Iraqis. But we have a hard job and it's not always clear what's right and what's wrong.

I don't know how the idea of 'removing from your military men and women the freedom of choice' applies to these pilots / gunners. It seems to me that they had a choice whether or not to engage these civilian targets. They chose to take an extremely aggressive tact and ask for permission to engage. They were not given orders to engage.

These guys were called in as air support. Why did they continue to mow down unarmed men who were clearly fleeing?

Something is apparent in the video: these pilots did not seem to take into consideration the possibility that these were civilian targets. Is this how our troops are trained to assess targets while they are in cities?

Perhaps you can answer Roy, since you're a veteran?

[Turbo D]

This is just war. I am not justifying what happened, but I am not surprised that it did. This kind of thing is to be expected. American civilians in Iraq have also been wrongfully slaughtered (e.g. journalists, tourists, etc.). If anything, everyone should be against the war, not this incident alone.

[oldskool]

This is just war. I am not justifying what happened, but I am not surprised that it did. This kind of thing is to be expected. American civilians in Iraq have also been wrongfully slaughtered (e.g. journalists, tourists, etc.). If anything, everyone should be against the war, not this incident alone.

I am against the incident, and the war.  But that's just my personal opinion.  Everyone has a right to an opinion.  And some people's opinion is that we should be there doing what we are doing. 

Then there is always the "what does the government know that we don't?" which could explain everything.  Or not.