Soooo....any real reason to own a PCFX other than collector braging rights?

[Arm]

Actually, my main idea was to create screenshots as a reference, and then to use the tiles found in the Mega CD iso (which is only around 15 megs) as a base to recreate them with more colors,etc... The problem is to be able to rip them, which I can't as I'm not a programmer.

Another task would be to create a game engine which could reuse the tiles. A battle engine would still  be another task.
 
As for the music, more than 90% of the game soundtrack is comprised of cdda tracks, which could be remixed or reused as is. More tracks could be added as there's still room on the cd. The rest is soundchip music for very short melodies.

For the sfx, I already the saturn version sfx in wav as a reference.

[Arkhan]

Actually, my main idea was to create screenshots as a reference, and then to use the tiles found in the Mega CD iso (which is only around 15 megs) as a base to recreate them with more colors,etc... The problem is to be able to rip them, which I can't as I'm not a programmer.

right right.  Ripping graphics isn't too hard.  but doing mockups will give a general idea of how nice it will look.

This is PCE.  It will look better than the MegaCD one for sure, :-D

Another task would be to create a game engine which could reuse the tiles. A battle engine would still  be another task.

Yes.  Thankfully Lunar's battle system is pretty simplistic.  I've written similar stuff in a few C-like environments. 
The regular game engine is pretty easy too.  It involves careful planning and organization, but since you aren't dealing with alot of collisions and action, it isn't too bad.

As for the music, more than 90% of the game soundtrack is comprised of cdda tracks, which could be remixed or reused as is. More tracks could be added as there's still room on the cd. The rest is soundchip music for very short melodies.

For the sfx, I already the saturn version sfx in wav as a reference.

They'd def. need to be remixed.  Hell maybe even rip some of the saturn, psx or even the new PSP tracks.


It would be a great project if there was enough commitment.

[Arm]

I think all the tracks can remain the same except the intro where I have added sfx and some reverb. For the last battle and the battle against Xenobia, I think the psp version of the battle theme can be reused as they're nonexistent in the MCD version.
I think the rest should be the Mega Cd version to remain faithful to the original as all the music of this version are different from the saturn/psx version of the game.

For the graphics, you can already see the difference here

MCD :

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/3939/lunartss1.png

PCE :

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/3443/lunartss1pce.png

[TheOldMan]

Um... You'd really need to fix the graphics. While it's not a 256 color image (like some we've had to reject), your palette colors are way too close together. The pce can't reproduce RGB values at the levels you have.....You need to go in steps of 32, I think....

[Arm]

Thanks for the advice. I've done this for the sprite of the character so it's compatible with the pc engine colors. But for the BG I didn't bother for now, but it could easily be fixed.
Simply put, each color (R,G,B) can only have one of the values found below to be pc engine compatible, right ?

0,36,72,108,144,180,216,252

I know that the pc engine can have 16 palettes of 15colors + one transparent (which makes 240 colors)for the BGs, and the same for the sprites.

There's 109 colors for everything in the picture below (bg,sprite,dial box)

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5898/lunartss1pcedialportrai.png

[TheOldMan]

Simply put, each color (R,G,B) can only have one of the values found below to be pc engine compatible, right ?

0,36,72,108,144,180,216,252

That looks right. I don't remember the exact values, you'd have to ask arkhan about that. I do know he gets frustrated sometimes when the color he wants doesn't exist on the pce....

I know that the pc engine can have 16 palettes of 15colors + one transparent (which makes 240 colors)for the BGs, and the same for the sprites.

Yeah, that's the way its always explained, but it isn't like you can just pick any color. Each background block is limited to 1 palette slot (but blocks can share a palette slot). So while you could use colors 16-31 for a block, you can't use color #43 - it will show up as color 11 (43%16) in palette #1, Assuming you use palette #1 (colors 16-31).

I understand -how- it works, I'm just not good at explaining it. It's really better to think of it as 16 separate palettes, and you can use any 1 palette in a given 8x8 pixel block.

And, to complicate it even further, sprites have a separate set of 16 palettes. Still same limit on drawing, though.
With a 32x32 sprite you could -potentially- use 16 palettes for 256 colors; in reality, though, most of the colors would be the same, with just one or two different for a special highlight or something.

So when you do something like the block in your upper-left corner, you have to be careful. You would need 1 palette slot for the brown/green  8x8 area, and a separate one for the green/grey area. In your case, it might be okay; I counted 8 unique colors In the brown/green block, and 7 in the green/grey block, so they could 'share' a palette slot. But you might find yourself duplicating colors just to have them available elsewhere in the picture.

And as arkhan keeps saying, it sure would be nice to have a graphics editor that understood these things :-)

[Arm]

Thanks for the explanation
Using graphicsgale and photoshop, I've converted all the colors which should be compatible with the pce palette. There remains only 42 colors now. I didn't try to refine or put additional details but just to remain faithful to the first version of the picture and reducing the number of colors.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8057/lunartss1pcecolor.png

[Arkhan]

dont forget, its 16 palettes... but they all share 1 common color.

[Arm]

I see. But what would be the problem, here ? With only 42 colors, I guess I could reuse the same colors in several color palettes ?

[TheOldMan]

You're down to 42 unique colors now, right ? So you should understand why people complain about doing graphics on the pce :-) And why they look 'off' sometimes, compared to other systems.

In any case, the next step is to chop the image up into unique 8x8 tiles, create a 256x whatever image, import it into mappy, and see if you can re-create the image there, using just your tiles. Trust me, it's harder than you think.
Start with a 32x32 map (using 8x8 tiles), and post a screen shot of your results when you have it like you want, so we can see how it worked out.

If you are really serious about this, keep notes on what you did so you don't have to figure it all out again. When you post the mappy screen-shot, I'll dig through my old code, and find the map-display test from pp, so you can at least see how your maps look in an emulator. And maybe, if arkhan says yes, we will get your sprite walking around on them. It's a start.

And we should probably move this to a new topic, since we are wayyy off-topic here :-)

[Arm]

Ok, I'll give it a shot. But, is it possible to use tile studio instead of mappy ? Am I supposed to divide into 8x8 tiles manually in photoshop ? Or is there a more proper way in tiles studio or Mappy to do that ?

[TheOldMan]

Probably. Most any tile program will do.
BUT, we have tools to convert mappy files to directly importable pce BAT tables :-)

IF we can find out how tile studio saves files, it might be possible to fix the tools to do the same thing. For now, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just make sure your tiles look right when you put them together into a screen.

[Arkhan]

Where the crap are we getting 42 colors from? lol

You can have 512 different shades of stuff (2^9).

16 palettes of 15 colors = 240 + Common Color = 241 colors for the backgrounds.

oh wait I shouldn't read after just waking up.

The PICTURE you gave has 41 colors. 

Yes, you can reuse colors in each palette.

Cause lets say for example you have a nice water palette of 15 blue/tealish colors, and then you are like oooo I need to make a building!

...thats say.... gray stone, with blue windows.

You probably wont manage to get the windows onto their own tile sections in order to use the same blue palette as the water unless you're REALLY clever...

so you can make a new palette for the building that has grays and blues, and you wont have to worry about it.  Even if the blues are duplicated. 

I don't think of it as OMG, I CAN MAKE SUCH HIGH COLOR BACKGROUNDS! 16 PALETTES!   

I think of it more like "Hey I can have 16 of these, so I can use them to tailor to specific sections/things on screen without worrying"

Plus, if you're reallllllly batshit insane, you can do alot with 16 colors



pardon the small ass image.  I cant find a good one.   That's Fray for MSX.  It's 16 colors INCLUDING sprites.   lol.  the background and sprites share one 16 color palette because its a bitmapped screen mode game.

Insane.  i wish I could art like that.

[Arm]

Fray is a nice game, as a lot of other games from Micro Cabin
I'll need to reread your message later, until then don't worry about art

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1269/lunasyscardpceversion2.png

PS : this is the syscard error image I've drawn (maybe not final)

[Arkhan]

Fray is a nice game, as lots of games from Micro Cabin
I'll need to reread your message later, until then don't worry about art

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1269/lunasyscardpceversion2.png

PS : this is the syscard error image I've drawn (maybe not final)

that may be the best system card error image I have ever seen in my life.