LUNAR The Silver Star PCE Project

[Arm]

Hi, this thread follows the conversation about this project, which had begun here :

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=8436.msg146889#msg146889

[Arkhan]

I think it could be done.  The cutscenes wouldn't even be hard to implement because the ones from the Silver Star were kind of crapass for the most part.

Alot of times it was a static image that maybe moved its mouth, with the text window still -_- lol.

[Arm]

I think the cutscenes would be the easiest part. With better colors and some details corrected or redrawn or 1 or 2 additional cuts for specific cutscene).
What would be more complicated is recreating the maps without reference  (btw, I sent you a map via pm) and also to program a game engine and battle engine (I don't have any clue when it comes to program and coding)

So, I guess ripping the graphics from the iso would be a good idea. I've also heard that graphics could also be ripped from brm file (save state) I know that fusion has uncompressed save states which can contain data.

To my knowledge, there doesn't exist a Mega CD emu that allows you to disable layers (only megadrive games). If I really had to, I can do screen captures of the town ingame and copy and paste  in photoshop to reassemble the map. The towns in this game aren't very big. But I assume that I would also have to convert the screenshots I create in pce color format before recreating the maps in mapwin.

[Arkhan]

I could just play the game and remake each map as I get to it,

I have an old strategy guide somewhere too!  Might help. 

[Keranu]

Sounds fun! Never thought of the idea of porting Lunar to PCE. It would be great to see the colors get the face lift they deserved since the dithering was pretty yuck.

[Arkhan]

Sounds fun! Never thought of the idea of porting Lunar to PCE. It would be great to see the colors get the face lift they deserved since the dithering was pretty yuck.

hey man that dithering was charming.  dont diss on the dithering.



I always did wonder why it never went to PCE.  It would've done awesome there.

[Arm]

Yes, I remember the orange guide I also have a japanese guide which is rarer. It was published in Japan in 92 and contains color maps from the game.

"I could just play the game and remake each map as I get to it"
I can send the emu or the image file if you need them

"Sounds fun! Never thought of the idea of porting Lunar to PCE. It would be great to see the colors get the face lift they deserved since the dithering was pretty yuck."

I think it would give a nice result with a good selection of colors and good use of dithering.
Here's another example I had made changing some elements and creating others:

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9692/lunartss2pce.png

[lord_cack]

Don't get me wrong, I always love the enthusiasm people get when they talk about ports to the PCE. Especially when its those older titles for the NES/SMS or older. But, I always wonder why the time isn't spent creating something new and interesting. Even if its using some of the similar ideas from the game your trying to Port.... in this case we would say an epic RPG. A nice example of this is what Arkhan is doing with the classic arcade games. Using them as the basis to release something unigue in appearance and even in some small examples unique, in someway, mechanically. Like the nice new touches to "Pac-Man" title Pyramid Plunder.... the map and large, varied playfields etc.....

[Arm]

I see what you mean. But creating something from the ground means even more work/time spent as you have to write a story, write music, etc... And I wouldn't be capable of doing that. I'm not even sure if this project will lead to something or if I'm losing my time But in my case, I was rather interested by doing design and pixel art. That's why I was looking if someone was interested to help me for the code/program.
I think that recreating a new version for the PC Engine is already a pretty big task, almost like a new game.
I'm trying to do this more like a proof of concept rather than anything else.

I also do this because I think it would be fun to revisit a game with new graphics, remixed musics, on a system the game wasn't originally intended for. The original graphics are really dark and rather simple. I think you could consider this as an equivalent to the remake of Mysterious Song.

Lunar on the MegaCD has never been reedited on another platform. More over, it's a classic game with good story and above all in english. There wasn't that many RPGs of that kind in english on the PC Engine. Well, even if there's nothing playable in the end, at least there will remain a couple of pretty screenshots 

The difference is like day and night

MCD

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9427/lunartss2.png

PCE

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9692/lunartss2pce.png

[Vecanti]

Don't get me wrong, I always love the enthusiasm people get when they talk about ports to the PCE. Especially when its those older titles for the NES/SMS or older. But, I always wonder why the time isn't spent creating something new and interesting. Even if its using some of the similar ideas from the game your trying to Port.... in this case we would say an epic RPG. A nice example of this is what Arkhan is doing with the classic arcade games. Using them as the basis to release something unigue in appearance and even in some small examples unique, in someway, mechanically. Like the nice new touches to "Pac-Man" title Pyramid Plunder.... the map and large, varied playfields etc.....

From my perspective it is easier to port a game even if you are starting with no code.  Starting with something where you already know how the game engine should work is easier to code.  Trying to create a game engine from your imagination and code it at the same time is tuff.  Similar with the graphics.  Improving graphics is a lot easier then trying create an entire world in your head/paper while in addition you still have to physically try to pixel the graphics anyway.

For a single person that can both create and code they alway have my respect.  Usually you need a team of people where some have the ideas and others turn those ideas into code/graphics.  Working over the internet it's very tough to coordinate a team even if it's 3 or 4 people. 

In this case all the planning for how the game should look, function, behavior, including characters, weapons, inventory is done.  All team members would just start working on their own pieces and then just bring it together. 

[lord_cack]

....create an entire world in your head/paper while in addition you still have to physically try to pixel the graphics anyway.

Thats what I do Hopefully everyone will get to find out sometime. That is, if it works out ....

....Working over the internet it's very tough to coordinate a team even if it's 3 or 4 people.   

And if it doesn't work out.... the above quote will most likely be the reason. Trust me (and those of us who do this sort of work) it is very difficult. But, the rewards when they pay off, even in small ways like seeing an animation, hearing the tune you have been working on, or playing a brief snippet of your game.... make the risks worth the effort. Its tough and when you throw in the fact that personal life always takes center stage. Its the most important thing. So sometimes finishing that project will have to wait.

There is also the option to rip the games guts out and just use the engine.... Theres no reason your original RPG couldn't use Lunar's game engine.... Not sure the technical problems present in doing such a thing. But Im sure if you can rip the graphics off and lay them back overtop the game, then you could just as well lay your own world overtop the engine. Maybe I over simplify....

[ParanoiaDragon]

I was thinking, you could pick n' choose your favorite version of every song, however, I'd guess that some songs would have to be PCM, so, atleast for those, someone would have to rewrite them, not to mention, using the right sounding sound engine.  The sound engine used (alteast) in LOX2 was fairly organic sounding at times, deffinitly one of my favorites.  It's probably the same as the one used in LOX1, but perhaps tweaked a bit?

[SignOfZeta]

When I see projects like this being started my only hope is that eventually a downloadable ISO of a working demo (burnable by N00bS, playable on real hardware) gets made. Anything more than that %99 of the time never comes to completion.

[lord_cack]

When I see projects like this being started my only hope is that eventually a downloadable ISO of a working demo (burnable by N00bS, playable on real hardware) gets made. Anything more than that %99 of the time never comes to completion.

Sad but true

[Arm]

When I see projects like this being started my only hope is that eventually a downloadable ISO of a working demo (burnable by N00bS, playable on real hardware) gets made. Anything more than that %99 of the time never comes to completion.

I'm afraid you're right

I was thinking, you could pick n' choose your favorite version of every song, however, I'd guess that some songs would have to be PCM, so, atleast for those, someone would have to rewrite them, not to mention, using the right sounding sound engine.  The sound engine used (alteast) in LOX2 was fairly organic sounding at times, deffinitly one of my favorites.  It's probably the same as the one used in LOX1, but perhaps tweaked a bit?

Actually, 90 % of the original soundtrack/speech is composed of cdda tracks, which could be reused as is or remixed a bit.
I've already remixed the intro song with soundforge and Premiere with effects and sfx to illustrate the animation in a better way. I think there's still room to put a couple of additional tracks. For ingame sfx, I have the saturn sfx in wav for reference if it had to be recreated. What remains are a couple of small/short melodies like when you win a battle and such. The chip music in LoX 2 is very good. Unfortunately, I don't really know how to create soundchip music, so I guess someone would have to rewrite them.

There is also the option to rip the games guts out and just use the engine.... Theres no reason your original RPG couldn't use Lunar's game engine.... Not sure the technical problems present in doing such a thing. But Im sure if you can rip the graphics off and lay them back overtop the game, then you could just as well lay your own world overtop the engine. Maybe I over simplify....

You would need to rewrite all the main engine and the battle engine code for the PCE anyway. The PCE has technical limitations the MegaCD doesn't have. Creating a new RPG like Lunar would mean even before starting pixel art to recreate all the world settings/ color style/characters designs. This would require a tremendous amount of design works if you wanted it to be done properly.

I agree, creating something new and original is rewarding. Creating cutscenes art for Pier Solar was interesting
Personally, I prefer to create a short animation movie to tell a story that I've imagined. I choose this medium because I know that I'll be able to recreate what I would have in my mind and manage to handle every step of the process which would be impossible in a game because of the graphic, sound or coding constraints.

These images were in the other thread so I put them here. The wrong syscard screenshot was created from the ground (after being drawn on paper then scanned)

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5898/lunartss1pcedialportrai.png
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1269/lunasyscardpceversion2.png