Job You Wouldn't Do For $1 Million Dollars A Year?

[Necromancer]

are you saying that jerking off bulls isn't a real job?

Not at all.  Animal husbandry is obviously a real job.

This is Navy, but things are pretty much the same for all branches. You'll make more managing the Sunglasses Hut in the mall...more meaningful work too.

On the surface the pay looks bad, but you're ignoring the value of free food, housing, clothing, medical care, etc..  Even discounting the fringe benefits, E-1 base pay is still $2000 per year more than a minimum wage earner.

I was thinking of officers not enlisted. Officers tend to do a lot better paywise.

Commissioned officers start at about $33,000 a year.  With ten years of service, there's little reason for 'em not to be an O-4 (about $75,000).

[SignOfZeta]

On the surface the pay looks bad, but you're ignoring the value of free food, housing, clothing, medical care, etc.. 

So the fact that I can't afford my own housing is justified by the fact that I can't actually live in my own house anyway. Awesome!

Even discounting the fringe benefits, E-1 base pay is still $2000 per year more than a minimum wage earner.

Is it actually possible to be E-1 at any point beyond basic training?

I don't think that paying a guy $2k more than the legal minimum is very impressive considering he's signed away a good portion of his human rights. We Americans spend more on military shit than we do on anything else, and not enough of it is going to the soldiers themselves. That's my main point. I know guys that have done civilian work in Iraq for $27k a month.

[Arkhan]

They should stop enticing dipshits to join the military via benefits and nonsense.

Maybe we'd have a stronger economy.   The people would either sink, or swim.   None of this cop-out "join the army, gits me a moneys, shoots me some injuns, AND THEN SIT ON MY ASS AFTERWARDS AND BE A TOTAL DOUCHE WHILE THEY CONTINUE TO GIVE ME SOME MONEY"


Yeah they hook you up for wasting your time, but it sucks when you got burnouts/alcoholics joining the army for the perks/money just because they f*cked their life up.

seems like bribery.  "Hey you, you're worthless because you're an idiot and failed to succeed.  Come join the army, we will hand you money if you be our meatbag for awhile"

[Necromancer]

So the fact that I can't afford my own housing is justified by the fact that I can't actually live in my own house anyway. Awesome!

So the only thing that matters is the cash in their pockets, eh? 

Is it actually possible to be E-1 at any point beyond basic training?

If you're a total screwup yet not quite bad enough to get discharged, then sure.

I don't think that paying a guy $2k more than the legal minimum is very impressive considering he's signed away a good portion of his human rights.

Your argument seemed to be that those joining the military earn less than a minimum wage earner, which I showed to be false for even a lowly E-1.  Furthermore, you're view that soldiers do nothing worthwhile is spitting in their faces, which really isn't surprising coming from you.

I too would like to see the soldiers get better pay (and better equipment, more training, etc.), but it is a voluntary service; if they don't like it, they don't have to sign up.  If they make a career of the military, it does get a bit better; after ten years, they should be making about $38,000 (enlisted) or $75,000 (officer), whereas the average private employee receives $30,000 (high school grad) or $52,000 (four year degree), though the private employees obviously enjoy much more freedom.

[Arkhan]

I too would like to see the soldiers get better pay (and better equipment, more training, etc.), but it is a voluntary service; if they don't like it, they don't have to sign up.  If they make a career of the military, it does get a bit better; after ten years, they should be making about $38,000 (enlisted) or $75,000 (officer), whereas the average private employee receives $30,000 (high school grad) or $52,000 (four year degree), though the private employees obviously enjoy much more freedom.

my problem is them roping in deadbeats to enlist and they use money and benefits to lure them in.   This was commonplace in highschool every year, twice a year.   The jackasses that enlisted were pretty much a step away from dropping out, or prison.

So then what happens, at least around here, is they go f*ck off for 4 years and get paid, come back and keep getting money from it, and sit on their asses and drink all day.  By the time reality sinks in for them, they're pushing, or past 30 years old and they have no marketable talents other than whatever basic training and crap gave them.

so then some of them use the free money and shit to go to school and spend another 4+ years getting a degree they werent motivated to get in the first place only because they now realize they're getting to be that age where its now or never...

seems kinda broken. Yeah, it's keeping idiots out of prison or sitting around doing absolutely nothing....... but when a bunch of them come back and sit around doing nothing WHILE GETTING MONEY FOR IT, it's kind of retarded

[SignOfZeta]

So the only thing that matters is the cash in their pockets, eh? 

No. The only thing that matters is that if there is a God in heaven they will burn in hell for all eternity for what they do on a daily basis, which is why I wouldn't do it for $1 million a year, or any other price.* Considering that, they should at least get paid the same as a garbage man or a meter maid, and most of them don't. If you are going to sell your soul to the military industrial complex, at least get a good deal. That was my point.

Your argument seemed to be that those joining the military earn less than a minimum wage earner, which I showed to be false for even a lowly E-1. 

I never said that. I said that mall management could pay more than $27k, which is does. Managing an EB pays about $40k (or it did, before Gamestop bought them) and an anchor store like a Sears can pay $100,000+. I never mentioned minimum wage, you did. However, since minimum wage is an hourly thing...if you look at things from an hourly perspective, even the guy at 7-11 is making more than a guy stuck in a submarine for three months since he's there 24/7, on duty or not.

Furthermore, you're view that soldiers do nothing worthwhile is spitting in their faces, which really isn't surprising coming from you.

Yes, please explain to all of us how the world is such a greta place because of all the places the US has invaded. Just think of how much better we all are off thanks to the invasion of Iraq, Panama, Korea, Nicaragua, Mexico, the Philippines, Viet Nam, Cambodia. The list is basically endless. f*ck it. Just explain Cambodia. Explain how that helped anyone who wasn't already hella rich and well connected.

As Americans we've been indoctrinated since birth to love the military and what it does while ignoring the fact that what it does is kill people. Well, it didn't work on me. I have no respect for that. I'm not really even all that concerned that they get better pay, but I would love to see them get real jobs. If we, as a country, spent the same trillion dollars a year building up this country instead of f*cking up other's, we'd have a country that was actually as good as people say it is.


* I don't actually believe in a vengeful God, but if if I'm wrong...having read the entire Bible several times...it doesn't look good for the solider. That's all I'm saying.

[ceti alpha]

Commissioned officers start at about $33,000 a year.  With ten years of service, there's little reason for 'em not to be an O-4 (about $75,000).

Hells yeah. If I was to sign up with the Canadian Navy as a commissioned officer I would basically be starting off making over $60 000/year. I'm pretty flabbergasted at the dismal pay the US Forces receive, never mind the individuals who are maimed during their service and receive little to no compensation for their sacrifice.

I do agree with Zeta that the US has caused a ruckus in South America, but that's par for the course for superpowers. The UK/England spent hundreds of years causing mayhem and drawing arbitrary borders around the world and we are still trying to fix what they left behind. Even the Soviet Union managed to turn Eastern Europe into a place of constant ethnic conflict.

Unfortunately, for some reason the Republican party has morphed into something barely recognizable from what it once was and continues to mutate, horribly. Glenn Beck's Tea Party is thankfully so ridiculous that Americans will be unable to ignore the how obviously out of touch the Republican party is. I just don't understand why conservatives, around the world, have been given the "economy savior" status. Whether in Canada, the US, the UK, Greece, conservatives always manage to screw over the economy and put their respective nations in massive debt with absolutely nothing to show for it, except large bonuses for CEOs.

Back to the military industrial complex, I love Eisenhower's farewell address to Americans. The man was a prophetic genius.

[SignOfZeta]

my problem is them roping in deadbeats to enlist and they use money and benefits to lure them in.   This was commonplace in highschool every year, twice a year.   The jackasses that enlisted were pretty much a step away from dropping out, or prison.

Well, around where I lived the recruiters were pretty horrible. They would actually follow me home from school like some sort of child molester. I can still remember them rolling behind me in their Chevette trying to convince me that I'd be nothing so I might a well join the Army. This was a lost cause since at this same time I was actively protesting the first Iraq invasion.

I would by no means say that everyone who signed up was a loser (many were), or they they even believed that they would be a losers if they didn't sign up (many more were). I've known many good people who have gone into the service, but only one actually made it a career, and most of them basically agree that it didn't do them much good. The recruiters massively overstate the value of military experience, and you will almost certainly not get all that college money! Other than discipline, there really isn't much you can learn there since fixing tanks and shooting heat seeking populace annihilators doesn't have much call in the civilian world.

[Necromancer]

I suppose I was misinformed when I heard that the military was providing aid for flood victims in Pakistan (among the hundreds of other similar operations over the years) or that there are people in the world attacking the US and its allies.  Nope, there are no valid missions for the military; they're just running around, invading peaceable countries, and shooting innocent women and children.

[ceti alpha]

I suppose I was misinformed when I heard that the military was providing aid for flood victims in Pakistan (among the hundreds of other similar operations over the years) or that there are people in the world attacking the US and its allies.  Nope, there are no valid missions for the military; they're just running around, invading peaceable countries, and shooting innocent women and children.

No doubt. Armed Forces are essential for creating stability on the seas against pirates (yarrr) or making sure ethnic conflicts don't turn into regional wars. Sure, there are meatheads in the military that don't even know where "Eyeraq" is and just want to shoot up some "Ehrabs", but there are just as many, if not more, who actually take their job seriously and try and do good.

Well Ceti, what good are laws if they can't/won't be enforced?  They are more guidelines, really.  I'm not promoting us going to Iraq, I'm just wondering how something can be illegal on that scale.

That's the all too familiar cliché of the UN. Without support from the US these laws are pretty much meaningless, but regardless, unilateral invasions of other countries are illegal. The UN sanctioned Gulf War in the early 90s was in reaction to Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait. International law is enforced, but it's certainly not enforced equally. This is probably a poor analogy since this is an example of a bad law, but take the marijuana laws in the US, and Canada for that matter. There's absolutely no way of enforcing possession laws to everyone because millions of Americans possess it, but it's still illegal.

[Arkhan]

I would by no means say that everyone who signed up was a loser (many were), or they they even believed that they would be a losers if they didn't sign up (many more were). I've known many good people who have gone into the service, but only one actually made it a career, and most of them basically agree that it didn't do them much good. The recruiters massively overstate the value of military experience, and you will almost certainly not get all that college money! Other than discipline, there really isn't much you can learn there since fixing tanks and shooting heat seeking populace annihilators doesn't have much call in the civilian world.

Right.  There are plenty of good people who sign up.  I just don't agree with them basically looking for dead weight and convincing them to sign up.  That mostly just enables them to continue being dick-offs once theyre back into civilian land.  They get free money and sit around.   I base this off of the 7 douchebags who all went to the army, did their GI Joe training, and all 7 came back and are livin' the white trash life.  I doubt it's an isolated instance. 

If you look at it the right way, its like they volunteered to go to prison for 4 years and get paid while doing it, only the prison taught em how to shoot shit and punch people properly.  White trash trained to kill!  Brilliant.

The whole thing in general is stupid, and not for me.  I do too many things that I would miss doing if I enlisted, shaved my hair, flew overseas, and had to dick off outside all day.

I prefer to get my college/career going the old fashioned way.  More power to the people who do the armed forces way, and hats off to the ones that don't half ass it.



I really dislike America lately though. I'm getting tired of the WERE THE BEST COUNTRY EVER bullshit we keep spouting.  It is retarded.  We're not the best at like anything anymore, our economy is a clustercunt of lolery, and we have the fattest bastards on the planet living here.  I think we're the best at being lazy, greedy, and ignorant.

Yes not EVERYONE is guilty... but f*ck man, peopleofwalmart.com   Done.  There's your proof.  We ain't so great anymore.  the Netherlands, Japan, Canada, Australia... all of those places!  I know many people from these places, and by the sound of it they're just as good, if not better than us. 

You don't really see equivalent sites for other countries.

[SignOfZeta]

I suppose I was misinformed when I heard that the military was providing aid for flood victims in Pakistan (among the hundreds of other similar operations over the years) or that there are people in the world attacking the US and its allies.  Nope, there are no valid missions for the military; they're just running around, invading peaceable countries, and shooting innocent women and children.

If I put $1 in the Salvation Army's bell ringer's pot, does it make any difference if I have a basement full of fresh graves? Its that much of a drop in the bucket. Barely even a token.

As for the US being attacked...we are fast approaching the 200th anniversary of the last time enemy foreign troops set foot on American soil. I really don't think invasion is so imminent that its worth spending half our tax base on, and I know its not worth the incalculable loss of human life.

[SignOfZeta]

Right.  There are plenty of good people who sign up.  I just don't agree with them basically looking for dead weight and convincing them to sign up.  That mostly just enables them to continue being dick-offs once theyre back into civilian land.  They get free money and sit around.   I base this off of the 7 douchebags who all went to the army, did their GI Joe training, and all 7 came back and are livin' the white trash life.  I doubt it's an isolated instance. 

So are they just living off their Guard checks, or what? If they weren't in it long enough to retire, I don't see how they could be getting more than a few hundred a month. I knew Cleveland was economically depressed, but are trailers really that cheap?

Its been a while since any of my friends were in the Army, so I can't really remember how this goes.

[Arkhan]

As for the US being attacked...we are fast approaching the 200th anniversary of the last time enemy foreign troops set foot on American soil. I really don't think invasion is so imminent that its worth spending half our tax base on, and I know its not worth the incalculable loss of human life.

There was this plane that smashed into a building a few years ago?  I'm not sure if we are counting that.

and pearl harbor might count, depending on how technical you're being.

but I do see what you're saying as far as troops physically occupying part of the US.  It's not like the invasion boats have docked and unloaded troops in awhile.  We act like our freedom is being threatened a whole lot, but I always wonder if it really is.

[Arkhan]

Right.  There are plenty of good people who sign up.  I just don't agree with them basically looking for dead weight and convincing them to sign up.  That mostly just enables them to continue being dick-offs once theyre back into civilian land.  They get free money and sit around.   I base this off of the 7 douchebags who all went to the army, did their GI Joe training, and all 7 came back and are livin' the white trash life.  I doubt it's an isolated instance. 

So are they just living off their Guard checks, or what? If they weren't in it long enough to retire, I don't see how they could be getting more than a few hundred a month. I knew Cleveland was economically depressed, but are trailers really that cheap?

Its been a while since any of my friends were in the Army, so I can't really remember how this goes.

yeah man, trailers are f*ck-all cheap.

They gits them a guardcheck, sign up for some welfares, find a hoe to live with that works at like K-Mart or KFC, and they basically dick off and do nothing of use.

It's even worse when its like, a dumpy house with 5 people living in it, working shit jobs or getting free money. 

They need to be lit on fire.