Author Topic: REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo/R/RX: Laser Swap & Adjustment Guide  (Read 37702 times)

thesteve

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it does not auto-cal anything
the adjustments do settle a bit so that is likely what you saw
another option is the rails/gears need cleaned and regreased, and were sticking

danyetman

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Thanks for the additional information, blueraven, thesteve.

Firstly, I have already applied white lithium grease to the worm gear and the laser rails.  Handy stuff - I've used it to prevent my original N64 controllers from wearing out, and despite being 19 years old, those controller sticks snap back like new.

Just about the only thing I could do to my Duo is replace the HOP-M3 laser.  I might do that anyway, though I have a horror of re-dialing the pots in again, even if I think it would be a worthwhile experience.

I'm a recent convert to the Church of PCE (having gone the long way 'round, from Nintendo to Sega to Atari to Sony to SNK to NEC), but I'm more interested in the technological side of things, so it occurs to me to wonder about the three connectors (P5, P6, and P7) on the Duo.

Obviously, they are for testing and calibrating the CD functionality.  The trimpots on the board indicate to me that something about the CD's circuit was, shall we say, 'flexible'.  Otherwise, there would be no need to include trimpots for adjusting the laser.  My personal theory is that the lasers themselves have (or had) some pretty wide tolerances, but I can't confirm that.

What I am almost completely certain about is that the P5, P6, and P7 connectors are used in bringing those tolerances into the tight range required for launch-day perfection.  Ergo, there must be some actual required values generated by these connectors that can be brought into conformity with the specs needed for flawless playback of OEM games.  Extrapolating from that, there must be a document related to the practical difference in playability between a pressed disc (of any time, not necessarily a game) and a burned one.

I know this is somewhat stream-of-consciousness here, but unless I am very much mistaken, there must be a document detailing these values.  It would be fascinating to collect and collate all this information...hmm.
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thesteve

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your mostly correct
the adjustments are per sony spec, from the chipset datasheets
P5 is your CD cal port
P6 and P7 are data diagnostic ports for troubleshooting a dead drive

danyetman

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If that is the case, then anybody with an oscilloscope and the right documentation should be able to gather absolute values from the P5 connector, is that not so?

So instead of relying on simply listening to the drive itself, we should instead have a guide based off of those absolute values for use with an oscilloscope.

And again, should we not be able to extrapolate values required for burned media as well?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 03:28:54 PM by danyetman »
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thesteve

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as far as exact values the chipset is designed around a range, and lasers vary
the read values on P5 are different using different media, but not much, so a drive adjusted perfect for CDR runs quite well on pressed.
where CDR is a bit less forgiving of inexact focus or tracking feedback settings
poorly aligned optics on the laser will complicate the tracking/focus causing more difficulty reading

danyetman

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as far as exact values the chipset is designed around a range, and lasers vary
the read values on P5 are different using different media, but not much, so a drive adjusted perfect for CDR runs quite well on pressed.
where CDR is a bit less forgiving of inexact focus or tracking feedback settings
poorly aligned optics on the laser will complicate the tracking/focus causing more difficulty reading

Fascinating stuff, thesteve.  Mind shooting a link to the documentation on these read value ranges?  And if you can include a no-nonsense primer on how to measure for those values on the P5 connector, that'd be brilliant.
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thesteve

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The readings are waveform
Pin1 is ground pin2 is RF
Look up laser eye pattern

danyetman

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The readings are waveform
Pin1 is ground pin2 is RF
Look up laser eye pattern

I thought pin 6 on P5 was GND, not pin 1?  Also, I'm not getting any relevant info looking for 'laser eye pattern'.  Perhaps you could be a little more specific?
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BlueBMW

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[Sun 23:29] <Tatsujin> we have hard off, book off, house off, sports off, baby off, clothes off, jerk off, piss off etc

danyetman

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I found this to be useful: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/cdfaq.htm#cdgensap

and this for the eye pattern: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/cdfaq.htm#cdcdeyep


EXTREMELY helpful!  But, uh, which points on P5 should I tap to adjust this?

EDIT:  Derp.  RF, of course.  Pin 2.  I'm an idiot.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 06:16:47 AM by danyetman »
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thesteve

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post the pic you showed me of the pattern on your scope bmw

BlueBMW

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This was from a CDROM2 unit.

[Sun 23:29] <Tatsujin> we have hard off, book off, house off, sports off, baby off, clothes off, jerk off, piss off etc

danyetman

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So, to clear this up:

1)  I'm grounding on Pin 1, and pulling the signal on Pin 2.

2)  I'm using non-triggered waveform as the read.

3)  I'm looking for 696ns of separation per half-phase, and 232ns between each wave's equivalent points.

What kind of probe are you using for this?

Thesteve: Gamer.  Guru.  Electronics nerd.  Savior.  Gentleman.  Jackalope.  Instructor of n00bz.  Champion of Geeks.  Might be half-badger.  Lord of all things NEC.  If you want to fight him, you'll have to defeat him first.  Beware of the knowledge bombs he drops.  They will blow your mind.  And your ass.  To bits.  They'll blow your ass to bits.

thesteve

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use a 10X probe
use a triggered input
the data in encoded as a varied wave length, but its done in steps
so what you see is a wave that doesnt directly overlap every pass, but will overlap every few passes
that causes the grid effect

danyetman

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Well, I can't seem to get this right, and now my PCE Duo won't load any CDs at all.

If there's anyone in NA (midwest is close to me) who can tweak this thing back into functionality, I'd be willing to pay a reasonable price for this service.  I don't have the time to coax this troublesome thing back into full operation, and it's frustrating the hell out of me.

Anyone who is able to do this, please PM me.
Thesteve: Gamer.  Guru.  Electronics nerd.  Savior.  Gentleman.  Jackalope.  Instructor of n00bz.  Champion of Geeks.  Might be half-badger.  Lord of all things NEC.  If you want to fight him, you'll have to defeat him first.  Beware of the knowledge bombs he drops.  They will blow your mind.  And your ass.  To bits.  They'll blow your ass to bits.