TurboExpress : Rocgnizing in Software

[TheOldMan]

Does anyone out there know how to tell if a game is running on a TurboExpress vs a regular turbo?
I vaguely remember seeing that it could be done, but never read an explanation of how.
Any help is appreciated.

(And, on the same subject, does anyone know how the link cable works? :-)

[blueraven]

 

[SignOfZeta]

I think the easiest way would be to...look at the system?

I think I don't understand the question.

EDIT:

OK, wait, I get it. How to program a game to recognize the system version its running on.

No idea, I'm completely retarded when it comes to programming.

[nodtveidt]

I'm looking for some documentation on the subject right now but as it's a subject that isn't explored very much at all, information might be hard to come by. Even during its heyday, NEC did very little with the Express.

[Arkhan]

I don't really think there is a way to other than trying to poll joysticks 2, 3, 4, and 5 for input.
 
When you get right down to it, the Turbob itself only has one controller port too, so I don't see why the Express would have any special indicators saying its an Express.  It is just a turbob smashed into a little device.

The link port probably works similarly to a duo-tap only it allows for ONE extra controller.... so if you try playing 5 player bomberman it just wont let you begin the game since all 5 players wont be able to rdy up.


As far as I remember, all of the games that have multiplayer support require you to press Run on all the controllers before the games can even start.  I guess thats how you tell if you're on an express or not.

[TheOldMan]

It is just a turbob smashed into a little device.

Not at all. Besides having the link port on it, it won't do a screen of 512x256. Max is 320x256, I think. I *might* be able to check that in software.....

The link port probably works similarly to a duo-tap only it allows for ONE extra controller

Again, I doubt it. You can't read 4 lines from a 3 pin connector.
Most likely, the link port is a 3 wire serial connection, -possibly- sent to a latch. In which case it might -look-
like a controller, but would operate differently. One of the things I want to know is how to send stuff out that port (controllers are read only). If I can check the port, I'll know if it's an Express.... (I think)

I'm wondering if thats the strange check in the startup code. Or maybe not.

all of the games that have multiplayer support require you to press Run.....

Can any of you guys who actually tried multi-player Bomberman with two expresses describe how you get into the two player game? That might help me figure this out...

I'm looking for some documentation on the subject right now

Yeah, I started going through the docs I have, but other than an interview with the arcade card dev, where he mentions the lack of hi-res mode on the express, there's not a lot.
I think I'm gonna start looking at the bomberman rom and see how it starts up. Maybe I can find something that will tell me what I want to know :-|

[nodtveidt]

Look at Falcon too...

[SignOfZeta]

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes that the TE would have special controller circuitry that identifies it as an Express. The controller port on a PCE is a read/write serial port that can detect the existence of plugged in controllers even if they aren't actively being used. A device like the Memory Base 128 obviously sends and receives data.

There might be another way for software to detect the system version, but it wouldn't be needed.

[Arkhan]

you guys who actually tried multi-player Bomberman with two expresses describe how you get into the two player game? That might help me figure this out...

Hey, I have an express, you have an express, I have a link cable....

I have bomberman..........

see where Im goin with this? :-D

[TheOldMan]

WoW! You're gonna give/loan me an express, a cable, AND Bomberman!!! How Nice!

Seriously, though, we can't even get together long enough to transfer sprite sheets. It's not gonna get any better, either, with Xmas coming up - I'm pretty booked from now till then.
And I think you may have my bomberman; I looked last night and can't find it. <sigh>

If you get a chance, stick bomberman in the express, and see what you have to do to get the multi-player screen/option to pop up. The first step is to find out what triggers that; does the link cable have to be plugged in? does another express have to be connected? etc. I can probably find the screen graphics (especially if I know what I'm looking for), and work backwards to where its loaded. That will tell us where to look for the checks.

And, fwiw:
 I'm pretty sure the link cable port is the key to this; even if it shows up as a second controller (which I doubt), it's mere presence would let us know if it's an express or not. (I think).
I chose bomberman to pick on, because the posts here indicate it has a special board to play multi-player on; that makes it easier to track down from both ends - I probably don't have to figure out the whole game, just up to where it loads the board. And bomberman is actually fairly common. It's easier to find two copies of it than two copies of Falcon. But when I actually isolate the express check, I'll go back and check Falcon - I'm betting they used a library function, and the code should be almost the same for all multi-player games :-)

[Arkhan]

nope I own my own bombermans.  I didnt borrow yours, lol.



Ill dick with it (bomberman 94) later

[BlueBMW]

Does one of you need me to send you my express for testing?   It doesn't get much use other than looking purty on the shelf   Also, I could send bomberman (US) with it too if necessary (or bomberman 93 (also US))

[Arkhan]

Does one of you need me to send you my express for testing?   It doesn't get much use other than looking purty on the shelf   Also, I could send bomberman (US) with it too if necessary (or bomberman 93 (also US))

nah we got it    

thanks though! 

[ccovell]

It is just a turbob smashed into a little device.

Not at all. Besides having the link port on it, it won't do a screen of 512x256. Max is 320x256, I think. I *might* be able to check that in software.....

Where did you get this information?  Of course the screen of the TurboExpress has too few phosphors to show such a high-resolution screen, but then again, it has too few for even a 256x240 screen.  "Doing" 512x256 is a function of the Turbo hardware inside the Express.

A while back, I made a screen-testing program (see here) and I even tested out the max viewable resolution on my TurboExpress.  I'll regurgitate it again:

I just did a test with my program on my TurboExpress, and from what I can make out, the maximum viewable area on the Express' screen is 261x238 in low-res mode; 518x238 in Hi-Res mode.

A resolution of NNNx256 is impossible since the VCE hardware maxes out at 242 lines (as far as it can be measured.)  With a good video monitor, all 242 lines can be seen, but the TurboExpress actually cuts off 4 lines, making its vertical maximum 238.

[TheOldMan]

a pet crusade of mine

Sorry to have stepped on your pet peeve chris.

My original numbers (and please note the 'I think' comment) came from "rec.games.video.* Frequently Asked Questions (part 3 of 3) ". That may not excuse them for being wrong. It's an old document.
In the same document, Section F, is the quote I referred to:
"As for TurboExpress compatibility, I think it can handle the 320x256 mode used
in Y's and others, but I've never tested 512x256...  Interesting!"

[Please note: the guy wrote the arcade card libraries, so he knew the hardware. And, according to you, HE got it wrong, too. I guess I can be forgiven for the mistake, then.]

Now, personally, I'm a programmer. I tend to think on powers of 2. But on a practical note, it doesn't matter to me whether the horizontal resolution max is 512 or 565. I'm gonna #define it, and forget about it. Same thing for vertical resolution. Once I look it up and #define it, I'm going to promptly forget all about it, unless I need to change it.

The point, however,  was that there *might* be a way to manipulate the display chips to decide if the program is running on an Express or not. I take it from your comments that they use the exact same chips, and looking for a difference there is futile. So do you have any suggestions for locating a useable difference between the Express and a standard TG16?
...
Before anyone else complains....
Yes, controllers are read/write. I forgot about the Devlo setup using the controller port. I can think
of a few ways to hook up the link port that would mimic a controller. But if bomberman can tell the difference, there has to be a way. Maybe they return different values on the initial read
...

BlueBMW : Thanks for the offer, but I wouldn't trust someone I met on the internet to return 'borrowed' hardware. But, if you get a chance, put bomberman in your express, and see if you can find the Link game.
Then put it in a regular duo/tg16 and see if it's still there. If we can find out what makes the link game option show up, I have a starting point for finding out how an Express is detected. It would also be nice to have independent verification of the procedure.

Arkhan: I don't think just any bomberman will work - it either needs to be the original, or bomberman 93. I'm not positive, but the thread here indicated that those two versions definitely have the link option.

AND, for those of you who are interested in programming and such....
I started tearing bomber man apart, and though I haven't found the link option, I did find a rather nifty trick.
Apparently, the game uses two satb tables, and swaps between them. Which got me to wondering...Could you use two satb's, swapping them every frame, to get more than 64 sprites??? Granted, the main character would have to be in both, but with a little ingenuity I bet all the other sprites could be different. Makes me wonder about screen flicker, though. (Maybe that's how the flashing bombs are done.) Just a thought someone might want to play with :-)