Raiden...

[Obfuscate]

Seriously how is this game considered a classic? It blows, you control this slow piece of shit with no speed control and you have some of the least inspiring weapons in shooter history while flying over mostly generic backgrouds. I mean the bullet hell would be fine if your ship wasn't so slow, maybe that would have made the game too easy?

A question for the Raiden fans out there, were the other ports on other systems and the Arcade game have the ship this slow or is it something the Turbo/Engine just didn't get right? As a big shooter fan I was looking forward to playing this one finally and it was a huge letdown. Am I missing something here?

[SignOfZeta]

That's how slow ships were back then, before Cave started cranking out so many cookie cutter shooters that we forgot there was any other style.

If you think Raiden is slow, Pulstar would drive you crazy.

[DesmondThe3rd]

Well, the Turbografx version is very close to the arcade but the problem is the default difficulty is just insane at times making it very hard to avoid shots especially on the later bosses. Unless you bomb the hell out of them early on they're impossible!

[ceti alpha]

Well, the Turbografx version is very close to the arcade but the problem is the default difficulty is just insane at times making it very hard to avoid shots especially on the later bosses. Unless you bomb the hell out of them early on they're impossible!

It's true, Raiden is not for the faint of heart. It's arguably not for the courageous, either. heh. I don't mind a difficult game, but I threw in the towel, at least for now. I'm sure I'll get back to it and try to finally clear that bastard. That said, I consider it a classic because it has influenced shooters ever since its release.

Obfuscate, you clearly sound frustrated with Raiden.  It's completely understandable; it's a frustrating game. Raiden was made when companies were still making games with the arcade in mind - that means quarter munchers. Raiden is, by all standards, a quarter muncher.

Maybe speed options would make the Raiden experience easier. During my fits of rage playing Raiden I've cried to the gaming gods to allow the ship one extra hit, as your ship gets upgraded with that new armour when your weapon gets powered up to a certain point. But then it just wouldn't be Raiden.

[_joshuaTurbo]

I actually had a pretty good time playing the Atari Jaguar version.  I haven't had much of a chance to really 'get into' the turbob version yet. 

[TheClash603]

I dislike any shooter that starts you at a checkpoint or at the level start when you die.  It doesn't make sense to me, and has and always will piss me off to no end.

[vestcoat]

God damn, I love Raiden.  It's one of my favorite shooters and definitely my favorite vertical shooter on the TG16.

I really like the power up system.  Shooters with a wider variety of power ups don't usually maintain weapon balance very well, so why bother?  With rare exceptions like Gate of Thunder, half the guns usually suck and I spend a lot of energy avoiding power-ups.  Not so with Raiden. 

I love how that laser can just keep powering up forever.  It adds a level of excitement that just keeps building (until I die, throw down my controller, and shut off the power   )

I like the difficulty.  It's one of the few extremely difficult games I've found where the challenge actually adds to the replay value and doesn't cause me to lose interest.

Most of all, I like the music.  I got into Super Raiden before owning the Turbochip version and it totally blew me away.  It's so good I find myself sitting there with the game paused just listening to the tracks.

[vestcoat]

Oh yeah - DO make sure you use the laser; otherwise the game does kinda suck.

[termis]

Agree with vestcoat on most points - 'cept I personally like the spread shot.

[nat]

Seriously how is this game considered a classic? It blows, you control this slow piece of shit with no speed control and you have some of the least inspiring weapons in shooter history while flying over mostly generic backgrouds. I mean the bullet hell would be fine if your ship wasn't so slow, maybe that would have made the game too easy?

A question for the Raiden fans out there, were the other ports on other systems and the Arcade game have the ship this slow or is it something the Turbo/Engine just didn't get right? As a big shooter fan I was looking forward to playing this one finally and it was a huge letdown. Am I missing something here?

Not really.

The Turbo port is actually closest to the arcade, so the slow ship speed is a holdover of the quarter-munching mechanics like ceti mentioned.

I don't particular like the game either.

My Duomazov bro's opinion, which pretty much sums up my own feelings:

http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/search/label/Raiden

[ceti alpha]

Oh yeah - DO make sure you use the laser; otherwise the game does kinda suck.

I used to think that, but the spread can really work well, too.

Though I do consider it a classic, I don't consider it top-tier by any stretch. The TG/PCE offers up so many great vertical shooties that dish out better graphics and more varied gameplay. Any of the Hudson shooters, for example, trump Raiden.

[rodek]

Raiden is awesome.. Played it all the time in the arcades back in the day..  Ghost pilots(Neo Geo) was also a slow scrolling also good game.

[esteban]

Seriously how is this game considered a classic? It blows, you control this slow piece of shit with no speed control and you have some of the least inspiring weapons in shooter history while flying over mostly generic backgrouds. I mean the bullet hell would be fine if your ship wasn't so slow, maybe that would have made the game too easy?

A question for the Raiden fans out there, were the other ports on other systems and the Arcade game have the ship this slow or is it something the Turbo/Engine just didn't get right? As a big shooter fan I was looking forward to playing this one finally and it was a huge letdown. Am I missing something here?

Disclaimer: At a certain point, and for no apparent reason, I go off on a rant. This rant is not directed at you . I guess I just needed to let some steam out.

Here's the deal with Raiden (believe me, you are not the first to ask why it is a "classic"):

(1) Raiden was not groundbreaking (revolutionary) when it hit the arcade. It didn't break any molds -- it just took a popular shooter formula and executed it very nicely. If you've played a lot of old-skool vertical shooters, then Raiden will be nice, but straightforward and perhaps not as exciting. I feel that Raiden certainly deserves to be placed in the category of "classic" because it was (and remains) a very playable and symbolizes (represents) a certain type of shoot-em-up from  a bygone era.

(2) Raiden, then, should be seen as a polished, evolution of Taito's Tiger-Heli and kin... In an old post I think I traced the history of Raiden to some other games, as well, but Tiger-Heli is a very popular, mainstream "landmark" to use as a reference post.

(3) Super Raiden (CD-ROM) -- in addition to Redbook Audio (absolutely lovely Redbook, by the way), has two (?) extra stages. I have yet to get to these stages, but rolins (an old member) said they were decent. Clearly, he is a better player than me. I have beaten the HuCard, but CHOKED on some parts on the CD. They are identical parts, yet I messed up. I will have to try again (it's been a few years).

(4) Sluggish/slow ship speed. Believe it or not, the last few stages of the game proper (HuCard, not CD), get insanely challenging, but, and this is what separates the men from the boys, if you SIMPLY ACCEPT THE SHIP's SPEED, you begin learning how to dodge in time to save yourself. Yes, bullets and enemy craft come hurtling at you, yet you will find that you can navigate through everything. EVEN WITH A WEAK WEAPON. Despite the naysayers, the checkpoint system is NOT fundamentally flawed, because MOST GAMES do give you a chance to recover (play defense, dodge, learn how to prioritize targets, then unleash the fury of your pea-shooter). The old-skool GRADIUS series, for example, TOTALLY allowed you to survive at a checkpoint, but you had to WORK (see aforementioned strategy).

(5) Yes, I do have a pet-peeve: the folks who complain about old-skool shooter shoot-em-up mechanics (OK, whatever, I'll use the new-fangled terminology). Sure, some games DESERVE criticism. What I don't like is when the critique is applied with a paint bucket to entire eras/genres.

[ceti alpha]

That's a perfect analogy: Raiden is a polished Tiger Heli. It really was a good looking game, bitd.

As for the speed of the ship, it's really not something I gave much thought to. Even with games with speed options or upgrades, I usually don't veer too much from the default speed. In R-Type, I grab one speed upgrade and then I'm good for the rest of the game. I can't stand when just touching the dpad will send you to the other side of the screen.

[vestcoat]

Let's also not forget that TG16 Raiden is off the charts in terms of sheer MEGA BITS.  We're talking, what, like 6 MEGA BITS?  f*ck.  That's like two average Turbochips combined.  Way too extreme for most people; they just can't handle it.