Raiden...

[ceti alpha]

Ah, you must mean how you could blow up the top of the tank and still have it moving? I couldn't find a screenshot of the moving tanks in Xevious that leave a mark.

Stop destroying my illusions! My fake world is better than your real world! Lalalalalala! Just because other games can do it, too doesn't mean Raiden didn't do it BESTEST!

 

I know what you're saying. Raiden was eye candy, BITD.

[Tatsujin]

Raiden may not have broken any molds in gameplay, but it was one of the more graphically intense shooters of the time, what with tanks leaving scars on the land...

 

Destroying a stationary object and having it leave a mark is different in my mind than having moving objects that leave a trace.

so how about tatsujin and even earlier toaplan shootaz?

[MottZilla]

Raiden and Super Raiden on PCE definitely were alot better than the SNES and Genesis ports. Maybe even the Atari Jaguar port too. But the Playstation version is probably best since PCE does seem to suffer from sprite drop where as that's a non-issue for PS. It's also probably more affordable to buy The Raiden Project on PS than to buy the TG16 HuCard, or the Super CD version.

It's a fun game, and you could check out Raiden DX on PS and Raiden III on PS2 and Raiden IV on Xbox 360.

[Tatsujin]

Raiden on MD, SFC & Jaguar were pure frauds. At that time, the PCE Raiden was the only one who showed how it has to be (except of fm towns).

[Obfuscate]

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

I'm no historian on arcade shooters but I know I like and "get" R-Type and why it's a classic. Maybe not as old but Areo Blasters is a hard arcade shooter I love on the turbo also. I guess I don't get why people like Raiden though at all. In my opinion bullet hell + slow ship mix as well as toothpaste and orange juice. To each there own though.

On a brighter note the last couple days I've been playing Nexzr Summer Carnival 93. This is a great game and looks like it may hold up to other turbo shooter favs of mine like Soldier Blade and Gates of Thunder. The caravan mode and the regular game are fantastic.

[ceti alpha]

I'm no historian on arcade shooters but I know I like and "get" R-Type and why it's a classic. Maybe not as old but Aero Blasters is a hard arcade shooter I love on the turbo also.

Two classics right there: R-Type and Aero Blasters. I don't think those two games get the short shrift, but Aero Blasters probably deserves more credit than it gets. It's up there in the TG and PCE libraries.

On a brighter note the last couple days I've been playing Nexzr Summer Carnival 93. This is a great game and looks like it may hold up to other turbo shooter favs of mine like Soldier Blade and Gates of Thunder. The caravan mode and the regular game are fantastic.

Nexzr is the shooter by which all other shooters are judged.  

Seriously though, Nexzr is amazing. It's one of my top tier games. Nexzr takes Raiden, stomps on it, flips it over, and gives the other side another stomp. Runinruder said that the only thing keeping this game from being perfect is the lack of a terrestrial level, and I agree. It would have been nice to change the scenery up a little bit, even if just for one level. But the sprites, graphics, music are all amazing. Anyone who gives this game short shrift shall be PUNISHED!

[Tatsujin]

Anyone who gives this game short shrift shall be PUNISHED!

I think such a dumb person does not exist. And in case it does..

 :arrow: IGNORANCE DOES NOT PREVENT PUNISHMENT!!

[spenoza]

I like that Raiden is a precursor of bullet hell without actually being bullet hell. I actually hate most bullet hell shooters, but I love Raiden because it doesn't feel quite so finicky and contrived. It puts on a show of being over realistic environments and realistic enemies and bosses (not like super-realistic, but realistic compared to many later, more conceptual shooters).

[vestcoat]

I guess I don't get why people like Raiden though at all. In my opinion bullet hell + slow ship mix as well as toothpaste and orange juice.

Even as a Raiden lover, I agree that the "bullet hell" sucks and takes the fun out of the game real fast.

Again, this is why, IMO, using the laser and not the Vulcan gun is absolutely critical.  Nowhere is "the best defense is a good offense" more true than Raiden.  So get the laser.  Next, pay attention to where the massive, bullet-spewing tanks and battleships enter the screen on each level.  When they show up, you typically have a couple seconds before they cut loose and fill the screen with bullets.  Be waiting for them!  Position your ship halfway up the screen so you can pump shots into them faster and fire at nothing until they show up.  The laser will cut just about anything to ribbons before they can open fire.  On the rare occasions you do end up with a certain-death swarm of bullets heading your way, drop a bomb and shoot from behind the protective blast radius.

Not using the Vulcan gun means there's a lot more riff-raff flying around and I recommend pairing the laser with the homing missiles to help clean up the small fries.

To summarize, here are the Strategies for Raiden Enjoyment:
1)  Buy the SCD for the music.
2)  Use the laser and homing missiles.
3)  Hose the big brutes before they get a shot off.
4)  Don't die.

[ceti alpha]

Raiden and Super Raiden on PCE definitely were alot better than the SNES and Genesis ports. Maybe even the Atari Jaguar port too. But the Playstation version is probably best since PCE does seem to suffer from sprite drop where as that's a non-issue for PS. It's also probably more affordable to buy The Raiden Project on PS than to buy the TG16 HuCard, or the Super CD version.

It's a fun game, and you could check out Raiden DX on PS and Raiden III on PS2 and Raiden IV on Xbox 360.

Can arcade ports of games on the PS1, XBOX and other next gen consoles be considered ports or are they just the exact game transferred onto a disc? When I think of a port I think of a translation. For example the Capcom Classics compilation on the PS1 - are those ports or the actual arcade games all on one disc?

[Mathius]

Raiden and Super Raiden on PCE definitely were alot better than the SNES and Genesis ports. Maybe even the Atari Jaguar port too. But the Playstation version is probably best since PCE does seem to suffer from sprite drop where as that's a non-issue for PS. It's also probably more affordable to buy The Raiden Project on PS than to buy the TG16 HuCard, or the Super CD version.

It's a fun game, and you could check out Raiden DX on PS and Raiden III on PS2 and Raiden IV on Xbox 360.

Can arcade ports of games on the PS1, XBOX and other next gen consoles be considered ports or are they just the exact game transferred onto a disc? When I think of a port I think of a translation. For example the Capcom Classics compilation on the PS1 - are those ports or the actual arcade games all on one disc?

I would say they are exact (mostly) emulated arcade conversions. No different than playing them on MAME.

[spenoza]

I'm pretty sure the PS1 doesn't have the power to emulate the original arcade engine. I think it was ported. It just happened to be a nearly identical port. They were likely able to keep the graphics the same and simply had to reprogram the core engine.

[Tatsujin]

Yeah they are mostly ported as it happened to be in the 16bit times, just with using much more oiginal BGs,tiles, sprites and colours as in the weaker 16bit times.

 for example most of the capcom generations do use red book audio, which is kinda annoying since it has to reload a new track when the music changes (e.g. street fighter or daimakaimura level ending etc.). also the arcade gear releases are far from 1:1 arcade (les animations and sound loadings).

in daimakaimura for example arthur isn't walking behind the leaves of grass as it happened to be on the arcade or x68 version. a small detail, yet important to mention.

the list goes on.

[ceti alpha]

Yeah they are mostly ported as it happened to be in the 16bit times, just with using much more oiginal BGs,tiles, sprites and colours as in the weaker 16bit times.

 for example most of the capcom generations do use red book audio, which is kinda annoying since it has to reload a new track when the music changes (e.g. street fighter or daimakaimura level ending etc.). also the arcade gear releases are far from 1:1 arcade (les animations and sound loadings).

in daimakaimura for example arthur isn't walking behind the leaves of grass as it happened to be on the arcade or x68 version. a small detail, yet important to mention.

the list goes on.

Ahhh. That's good to know. I've never played the PS1 ports, so I always wondered that. I guess I just assumed they were 1:1 with the arcade.

On the subject, I've been playing some Namco Museum on my DS, and lets just say it's not 1:1 with the arcade. Kinda disappointing, really; you'd think the DS would be capable of mimicking the arcade. Some of the games are closer than others, but Pac Man is just off the mark.

[Mathius]

My above post was mistaken. I was thinking about the PS2 versions of Capcom Classics Collections 1 & 2. But, that makes me wonder if my statement is true in that regard. Any ideas???