I give up. The Genesis is true 16Bit and the PCE is a 16Bit imposter.

[SuperDeadite]

I love how the SNES is supposedly the "most powerful" but it's by far the slowest of the three.

[_joshuaTurbo]

When I think of the PCE, or even the Turbo library, I look at the entire library- (Chip, CD, SCD, and even ACD)

The fact the NEC/Hudson realized the progression and created games and moved onto the stronger technology showed me that they were actually supporting and backing the koolaid they hoped we would drink.

With Sega, they had the MegaDrive/ Genesis which I'll admit can do more things (paralax, more arcadelike sound/ speed) than the Turbob's HuCard/Turbo Chip.  Didn't necessarily mean the games were better, but they were capable of more.  But they also expected people to buy the Sega CD and the 32X addons, and treated them like red headed bastard children when they didn't sell like hotcakes. 

If I look at the entire library of turbob/PCE and compare it to Sega's 16-bit collection, I'd pick Turbob as the overall better in terms of quality, graphics, sound, colours, and gameplay.   A clean f*cking sweep dawg.  It depends on your own personal tastes.  If you like 6 colours on the screen moving at the speed of light with 18 kick ass layers spinning out of control rather than 500 colors on the screen with only two layers of scrolling background, then so be it!

but what the hell are we really debating here?  The SNES had Mode 7, so Turbob and Sega can both get bent!!

[blueraven]

IMO what make's a console is it games,
16 bit, 8 bit, 7903S bit, 2 zillion colours etc.. all doesn't matter,
what matters is are the games any good? what game developers supported the console?

The Super Famicom had Shigeru Miyamoto, Square Soft, Enix and Natsume.

The Megadrive had Sega arcade conversions, Treasure and Technosoft.

and the PC Engine had Naxat, Taito and of course had Hudson Soft! imo this is what makes it a great console.

To be totally honest of the three I think the Super Famicom is the best,
I truly love the PCE and it is just cooler than the rest, but the selection of SFC games Shigeru Miyamoto had a hand in just lifts it above any other console ever IMO.

PCE Had Falcom as well; A beacon of light in a world of bad RPG's.

tS this thread lost teh meaning a weak ago.

[Necromancer]

The TurboGrafx-16 was a 16-bit imposter.  It was advertised as being 16-bit, and it wasn't.  They even stuck "16" in the system's name in a blatant effort to trick people.  Why is it ridiculous to state the truth?

You make failure look easy.  They didn't claim that it had a 16-bit CPU but that it had 16-bit graphics, and the 6260 and 6270 video chips are indeed 16-bit.

Besides, the whole point is that the bit count does not matter!  It's all about the end result and what you see on screen, unless you think it makes sense to compare the Intellivision with the likes of the SNES and Genesis, but that's just silly.

[Otaking]

IMO what make's a console is it games,
16 bit, 8 bit, 7903S bit, 2 zillion colours etc.. all doesn't matter,
what matters is are the games any good? what game developers supported the console?

The Super Famicom had Shigeru Miyamoto, Square Soft, Enix and Natsume.

The Megadrive had Sega arcade conversions, Treasure and Technosoft.

and the PC Engine had Naxat, Taito and of course had Hudson Soft! imo this is what makes it a great console.

To be totally honest of the three I think the Super Famicom is the best,
I truly love the PCE and it is just cooler than the rest, but the selection of SFC games Shigeru Miyamoto had a hand in just lifts it above any other console ever IMO.

PCE Had Falcom as well; A beacon of light in a world of bad RPG's.

not sure, think Falcom's support for the SFC and PCE was about equal. PCE did have Ys 1&2 and with CD audio so it wins in quality.

[Tatsujin]

Not the dumbest review :idea:

[SignOfZeta]

I love how the SNES is supposedly the "most powerful" but it's by far the slowest of the three.

Yeah, the CPU clock speed is pathetic, which is (I assume) why the shooter selection is so terrible on SNES, but true transparencies and mode 7 are completely and totally beyond the PCE and MD. Shooters run slow or flicker on the SNES, but Yoshi's Island, at any speed, is just a pipe dream to the other two systems (and the Neo Geo) thanks to the special video hardware, not to mention the audio (think: Earthbound/Bother2). Completely impossible on PCE/MD.

Here is where some deaf blind douche chimes in trying to tell me that flicker/interlace tricks are transparencies and reverb is for gays. Go on, say it. You know you have to.

[nectarsis]

I love how the SNES is supposedly the "most powerful" but it's by far the slowest of the three.

Yeah, the CPU clock speed is pathetic, which is (I assume) why the shooter selection is so terrible on SNES, but true transparencies and mode 7 are completely and totally beyond the PCE and MD. Shooters run slow or flicker on the SNES, but Yoshi's Island, at any speed, is just a pipe dream to the other two systems (and the Neo Geo) thanks to the special video hardware, not to mention the audio (think: Earthbound/Bother2). Completely impossible on PCE/MD.

Here is where some deaf blind douche chimes in trying to tell me that flicker/interlace tricks are transparencies and reverb is for gays. Go on, say it. You know you have to.

Didn't someone (ccovell) show "impossible" transparencies on the PCE..Zelda Link to the Past IIRC?

[SuperDeadite]

Yeah, but the SuperFX games aren't powered by the SNES, it's the cart itself that does all the work.  The other consoles could have had such upgrades, they just didn't bother, except a few exceptions like Virtua Racing.

[Arkhan]

Mudash vs. Turbobdash!



Really though, what "bit" thing was the thing they used?  Some use the graphics chip, others the CPU, others just make shit up.   What chip is the determiner?

Cause the C64 for example is an 8bit CPU, but has an uh... I think its 12bit graphics bus.   So is it a 12 bit machine swimming in a sea of 8 bit competition? *shrug* Who cares.  The games suck!   Muddy, chunky nonsense with drab colors! Woo.

The Genesis has a 16bit CPU that operates at the same speed as the PCE.  Give or take some hz that are negligible.  7mhz.  That's cool and all.  How many bits is the graphics chip. 

The HuC6280A is "8bits", thats nice.  It has 16 bit features inside since its a coked out 6502 variant, and addresses a 16 bit and a 21 bit bus, and the video chips are 16 bits.  What the f*ck number are we using here?  Most of it is pretty frigging irrelevant since the average player doesn't really know or care what kind of numbers are going on inside the machine.

Long story short, the bit-war comparisons are retarded.  Use your frigging eyes.  Pick the shinier, funner to play one.  More often than not, I will pick a PCE version of a game over a Genesis one.

That doesn't mean I don't like the Genesis.  I like them both.  Usually it boils down to I prefer the PCE's sound over the Genesis. 

The Genesis has way better hardware scrolling, and better processing since its a frigging 68k, but really, the color limitations usually result in ass on screen where there could have been magic.  Some companies overcame this shit (Ristar).  It also got cursed with FM, which when used wrong (IREM), results in some pretty frigging lame sound.  It's great when done right (Microcabin!) but man... if you just wing it, you get scratchy, farty, awfulness.




Anyone else see the whole bit war thing as a total waste of time?  I grew up with NES, TG, Genesis and SNES.   I Just wanted to play games and didn't care wtf was going on inside the machine, lol.

[Gogan]

Couldn't agree more Ark

[SignOfZeta]

Didn't someone (ccovell) show "impossible" transparencies on the PCE..Zelda Link to the Past IIRC?

Yeah, he posted a Youtube vid. I'm pretty sure it was SGX, and a feature totally unused by any retail game so...its not like you could ever actually experience this capability. I also don't remember how this effect was achieved, via some sort of super duper flicker, or if it really was a true transparency. Its pretty much impossible to tell on Youtube since very few capture devices actually capture flicker properly, but it sure looked good.

He may have given us a ROM, but I'm pretty sure I never tried it out since I'm too stupid to use emulators, SGX compatible ones anyway.

[nectarsis]

Didn't someone (ccovell) show "impossible" transparencies on the PCE..Zelda Link to the Past IIRC?

Yeah, he posted a Youtube vid. I'm pretty sure it was SGX, and a feature totally unused by any retail game so...its not like you could ever actually experience this capability. I also don't remember how this effect was achieved, via some sort of super duper flicker, or if it really was a true transparency. Its pretty much impossible to tell on Youtube since very few capture devices actually capture flicker properly, but it sure looked good.

He may have given us a ROM, but I'm pretty sure I never tried it out since I'm too stupid to use emulators, SGX compatible ones anyway.

Just because it wasn't in a retail game =/= "but true transparencies and mode 7 are completely and totally beyond the PCE and MD."  It obviously COULD be done ( at least SGFX). 

[Necromancer]

Yoshi's Island, at any speed, is just a pipe dream to the other two systems (and the Neo Geo) thanks to the special video hardware...

Yoshi's Island isn't doable on a 'plain' SNES either; who knows if the SVP (or some such chip in a HuCard) could've provided the same experience, minus the color depth obviously.  That's just a poor example though, as the idea holds true for F-Zero, Super Mario Kart, etc., although the Sega CD's scaling and rotation capabilities exceed those of the SNES.

... not to mention the audio (think: Earthbound/Bother2).

Indeed.  The SPC700 can produce some amazing tunes, but redbook can be even better and without tons of expensive ram chips.

[ceti alpha]

And where does the SuperGrafx fit in? Technically, it puts the Genesis to shame in almost all areas of video. The Genesis being a 'true' 16bit console because of its cpu and the SGX not, makes the Genesis rather pathetic in that context. Calling the TG16 a 16bit imposter is rather silly.

That's an excellent point. How can anyone, in all seriousness, call the SGX an 8bit system? And even if you want to label it an 8bit system out of some sort of weird stubbornness, it only makes the Genesis and SNES look ridiculous for being supposedly "twice" the system, yet having games that look relatively the same.