I give up. The Genesis is true 16Bit and the PCE is a 16Bit imposter.

[Arkhan]

Indeed.  The SPC700 can produce some amazing tunes, but redbook can be even better and without tons of expensive ram chips.

What would be funny is to use Genesis hardware to make music, capture as wave, and put on redbook for a PCE cd game.

hmmm....



We can call it "The hardware is sleepy right now and feels like half assing it" mode.   All great hardware deserves a nap.

[SignOfZeta]

Just because it wasn't in a retail game =/= "but true transparencies and mode 7 are completely and totally beyond the PCE and MD."  It obviously COULD be done ( at least SGFX). 

Mode 7 is so beyond the PCE its not even funny. Transparencies...may be a different story, so let me rephrase this.

"While it might not be totally impossible for the PCE to do real transparencies of some sort, it is totally impossible for anyone to play any retail game that has them on a PCE because none exist."

Again, if its only possible in theory, its as good as impossible.

[SignOfZeta]

Indeed.  The SPC700 can produce some amazing tunes, but redbook can be even better and without tons of expensive ram chips.

Obviously redbook is better in theory, but its really sad how many redbook CD soundtracks are just garbage. Also, redbook isn't dynamic. It can't transition for shit, and in fact halts the entire system when the laser moves on a PCE.

[Arkhan]

Mode 7 is so beyond the PCE its not even funny. Transparencies...may be a different story, so let me rephrase this.

Done on a Turbo R R800 processor  (7mhz), and the same video chip as the MSX2+.

So...

f*ck yeah.

Obviously redbook is better in theory, but its really sad how many redbook CD soundtracks are just garbage. Also, redbook isn't dynamic. It can't transition for shit, and in fact halts the entire system when the laser moves on a PCE.

No it doesn't.  When the laser re-seeks an audio track to loop it, does your game freeze?  noooo.  It doesn't.

If the laser moves it halts the audio... but it doesn't halt the system.

[Necromancer]

Obviously redbook is better in theory, but its really sad how many redbook CD soundtracks are just garbage.

No less sad is how many chip tunes are utter shit (SNES, Genny, PCE, it doesn't matter).  Did you have a point?

Also, redbook isn't dynamic. It can't transition for shit, and in fact halts the entire system when the laser moves on a PCE.

That's akin to arguing that the SNES is superior to the PCE CD games simply because it doesn't have load times,and that's just silly; plus like Ark said, only the music halts.  Besides, using redbook and chip tunes together makes for pretty dandy transitions, such as when some RPGs mute the overworld redbook, play nice chippy tunes during battles, then back to the redbook at battle's end.

Mode 7 is so beyond the PCE its not even funny.

Equally funny is how the PCE's CPU is so far beyond the SNES's.  Is it just me, or is it pointless to argue that one machine is head and shoulders above the crowd based on a single capability?

[Tatsujin]

Again, if its only possible in theory, its as good as impossible.

Nice, so I'm expecting hoverboards, light sabers and nuclear fusion powered cars just within the next couple of years.

[Tatsujin]

Equally funny is how the PCE's CPU is so far beyond the SNES's.  Is it just me, or is it pointless to argue that one machine is head and shoulders above the crowd based on a single capability?

What I always think is the most funny part is the fact that the PCE came out more then 3 years eralier than the SFC and even had CD-ROM media 2 years before the SFC was released.
So taking this enermous time gap into considerations, the SFC is more than a wimpy hardware compared.

[blueraven]

Equally funny is how the PCE's CPU is so far beyond the SNES's.  Is it just me, or is it pointless to argue that one machine is head and shoulders above the crowd based on a single capability?

What I always think is the most funny part is the fact that the PCE came out more then 3 years eralier than the SFC and even had CD-ROM media 2 years before the SFC was released.

So taking this enermous time gap into considerations, the SFC is more than a wimpy hardware compared.

Quoted for Joe Redifer.

[Tatsujin]

frowsy work blew!! you have forgotten one.

[Bonknuts]

Just because it wasn't in a retail game =/= "but true transparencies and mode 7 are completely and totally beyond the PCE and MD."  It obviously COULD be done ( at least SGFX).  

Mode 7 is so beyond the PCE its not even funny. Transparencies...may be a different story, so let me rephrase this.

"While it might not be totally impossible for the PCE to do real transparencies of some sort, it is totally impossible for anyone to play any retail game that has them on a PCE because none exist."

Again, if its only possible in theory, its as good as impossible.

 So a demo doesn't qualify as real? Only theory?

 Genesis can do mode 7. Real scaling/rotation F-Zero style mode 7. It's in the new Piew Solar game. People have talked about how Fonzie, one of the programmers for the game, made a racer demo that used ripped F-Zero maps. The PCE could probably do something similar, if the Genesis can do it. It's not full res on the Genesis, but it's smooth and impressive looking. And it's mode 7.

[Emerald Rocker]

Wow, this thread blew up.  Guess I should post more often!

I would just like to point out that nowhere did I say the number of bits determines which system is better.  Ceti Alpha said it was ridiculous to call the TG-16 a 16-bit imposter, I said it's not ridiculous, and then a bunch of people said "it's about the games" which is totally missing the point.  Did I ever say it wasn't about the games?  All I said was that I thought the TG-16 was deceptively marketed and that the Genesis is more capable (aside from onscreen colors).  Necromancer makes a good point, but no one back then based "bits" on the graphic chips, so that subtlety was lost on the 16-bit generation.

Energy sucks.

[Tatsujin]

The c64 could do mode-7 effex (zoom in-and out and rotate a playfield simultaneous). the question is what is mode-7 exactly and how to do it?
you can do almost any visual effex with progamming tricks on any existing platforms. but some platform can output it easily and directly from its hardware and other have do be tricked to do similar things.
therefore the MD has no hardware mode-7 as the SFC has.

PCE has no hardware parallax? yes.
PCE has no parallax? bullshit, it's just more tricky than doing it on the MD, but it is possible.

[Emerald Rocker]

Blast Processing is a marketing term. How can that be a real thing?

"Blast processing" and "our system has the highest clock speed" are synonymous.  Back in those days, it was pretty obvious what "blast processing" really meant if you watched the commercials and thought about the SNES' weaknesses.

For the SNES, Nintendo chose to use the actual term Mode 7, but they could have called it "spinzoom tech" and it would still represent a real thing that distinguished their system from others of its day.

EDIT:

Genesis can do mode 7.

Actually no, it can't.  Genesis games can do scaling and rotation, and often did both better than SNES games, but that's different from the Genesis as a system "doing Mode 7".

[Tatsujin]

I think it's about time for teh..



 

[BlueBMW]

Quoted for truth   No bread.. nice