Sega Master System games: Did it hurt the Turbo?

[Arkhan]

The SMS was the best real 8-Bit console (8-Bit league player). Sure it won't compare to the PCE, since PCE was a 16-Bit league player.

Those are two different worlds.

I find it hard for the SMS to beat out the NES, personally.

I blame the lack of RPG presence.

Its kind of like why I hate the N64 so much.


Visually, SMS pummeled the NES though.  Hands down.  No questions.

Imagine if Capcom had been putting Mega Man games on SMS too.  oooh I bet they'd look sexy.

[Tatsujin]

YEah, the whole soft lineup is an other story sure. But the SMS had a good arcade action line up, me likes!!

[vestcoat]

I find it hard for the SMS to beat out the NES, personally.

I blame the lack of RPG presence.

Granted the SMS had a terribly small selection of RPGs, but the ones it did have were very good.

I'd say the following games hold their own against the NES equivalents.
Phantasy Star = Final Fantasy
Ultima IV = Ultima Avatar
Golden Axe Warrior < Zelda 1
Ys > Dragon Warrior
Miracle Warriors = ?

Throw in psuedo rpgs like Lord of the Sword, Golvellius, Spellcaster, Gauntlet, Kings Quest, Populous, Dragon Crystal, and Alex Kidd High-Tech and the SMS wasn't that bad.

[Joe Redifer]

Vestcoat, Wonderboy 3 and Dragon's Curse were both released in the USA.

[Tatsujin]

Unfortunately not in Japan. Still have to get me that back bone adaptor and and Dragon's trap, Vigilante, rastan saga and choplifter. And FM here it comes

[esteban]

Hey all, new member. Love the TG16 and been occasionally checking out these forums for a couple years now, but been doing it more frequent recently so I decided to join up.

Welcome, Mishran


SMS and TG-16:

Social, Practical, Economic Factors
If you were economically semi-independent during 1985-1990, you had more freedom of choice. I wasn't; I had to save birthday money to buy things, so choosing a console was influenced by many things.

Growing up, 96% of the serious (obsessed) video game fiends had NES. It was 1985-1990, we were kids, and our parents bought the goddamn things. Even when kids had a choice, you better believe the social component was crucial in the decision-making process: who will you be able to borrow games from, who will you trade/sell/buy with? Even when folks were AWARE of alternatives, there were very practical economic incentives to choose NES.

Now, I happened to think that, overall, the NES had the best library of games, because I was only occasionally jealous or envious of the SMS games some friends had. Yes, it's true: there was a small, but loyal, support network for SMS in my area, which was cemented and nurtured by the local video store that carried a great selection of SMS titles. The owner had kids, so he was buying the games for his kids to play, then he rented them when they got bored. As a parent now, I would love the opportunity to do something like this! Secretly, of course, I wanted to play ALL games on all platforms, including computers, but I rationalized away the envy/frustration by saying, "The NES is the best compromise, considering the serious lack of money."

But, honestly, outside of a small cadre of SMS fans, SMS WAS NON-EXISTENT. By the time Genesis and TG-16 were out, all the SMS fans migrated to GENESIS (Sega should have called it SAVIOR, because that is how the SMS fans viewed it!)

For the record, I really liked the SMS, but did not think it was "essential". I did not feel that way about the Genesis, though. Everyone had been anticipating its release. Then a funny thing happened: I saw a few games that really appealed to me (Blazing Lazers, Legendary Axe, etc.) and suddenly I didn't care about all the practical concerns listed above: I was older, I just wanted to play this new, obscure system that intrigued me.

Genesis would have been the more practical, better choice for me (for all the reasons the NES was the best choice), but I decided to take a chance. Luckily, my younger brothers were easy to influence, and they committed all of their birthday and Xmas money to fund TG-16.

Bottom line: As soon as I got a real job, I bought an SMS and all the used carts I could find.

What was the topic?

[Black Tiger]

Unfortunately not in Japan. Still have to get me that back bone adaptor and and Dragon's trap, Vigilante, rastan saga and choplifter. And FM here it comes

Unfortunately the fm sound, if it's actually in the rom, doesn't work. The Brazillian version (Monica de Turma?) does have fm sound though, but it doesn't sound complete. Some of the PSG channels haven't been replaced.

[Tatsujin]

Strange, I have proof (even the sound files) of Dragon's Trap in FM. And I've read that if Dragon's Trap is played on a FM moded oversea sms or Japanese sms, the FM sound will be enabled!!?

[Black Tiger]

Strange, I have proof (even the sound files) of Dragon's Trap in FM. And I've read that if Dragon's Trap is played on a FM moded oversea sms or Japanese sms, the FM sound will be enabled!!?

The fm tracks do exist and I assume that they were done by the original developer. But just like Phantasy Star, the North American version doesn't produce any fm in my Mark III SMS and I'm pretty sure that I tried it in my Gam*boy that has working fm sound. But like I said, the Brazillian version works fine.

[_joshuaTurbo]

Saying the Master System hurt US TG sales, is like saying the Atari 7800 hurt it's sales.  I mean the 7800 did have Mario, Donkey Kong, Pac Man and NINJA GOLF.

Actually come to think of it, I'm a little shocked the only Pacman game we got was that side scrolling SMB wannabee..... thats too bad.

[turbogrfxfan]

I dunno why people keep comparing the turbo to the sms???  Maybe the east coast was different but back in the day it was either the nes or sms..    the turbob wasnt even a factor..  for me at the time.  nintendo didnt have its snes out so it was the genny and turbo in compitetion with each otheras the next generation.  imo the sms lost to nintendo and it was a decision on buying the turbo or genny.  It makes no sense for someone to think of buying a sms when the genny was in compiption w/ the turbo.

Besides the games we've talked about, the TG16 and SMS have a surprising amount in common that makes them worthy of comparison.  Unlike their competitors, they're both unusual in that they don't fit neatly into the categories of "console generations" that has been widely adopted in recent years.  Wikipedia and Gamefaqs might list them as forth- and third-generation consoles respectfully, but things aren't black and white and they co-existed for most of the same years. 

Dude!               "next generation game system"        adapted in recent years?  and I dont care about what was sold in japan  This is about us sales.  and yes nec did fit in cause thats the reason why the bit was started.  Ur not making sense

[vestcoat]

I dunno why people keep comparing the turbo to the sms???  Maybe the east coast was different but back in the day it was either the nes or sms..    the turbob wasnt even a factor..  for me at the time.  nintendo didnt have its snes out so it was the genny and turbo in compitetion with each otheras the next generation.  imo the sms lost to nintendo and it was a decision on buying the turbo or genny.  It makes no sense for someone to think of buying a sms when the genny was in compiption w/ the turbo.

Besides the games we've talked about, the TG16 and SMS have a surprising amount in common that makes them worthy of comparison.  Unlike their competitors, they're both unusual in that they don't fit neatly into the categories of "console generations" that has been widely adopted in recent years.  Wikipedia and Gamefaqs might list them as forth- and third-generation consoles respectfully, but things aren't black and white and they co-existed for most of the same years. 

Dude!   

           "next generation game system"        adapted in recent years?  and I dont care about what was sold in japan  This is about us sales.  and yes nec did fit in cause thats the reason why the bit was started.  Ur not making sense

Your arguments will be stronger if you take the time to communicate effectively - spell, capitalize, use punctuation, and get your remarks outside of the quote.

The history from Japan is relevant because when our early Turbografx games-to-be were first programmed on the PCE they were contemporaries of the 8-bit era.  When JJ and Jeff was made there was no Super Famicom or Mega Drive and NEC, Sega, and SNK weren't slapping the numbers "16" or "24" on their consoles anything.

A couple years later, NEC brings the PCE to the U.S.  It's not 1987 anymore: the NES is king, the SMS has just been superseded by the Genesis, and they can't just market it as a cool new console like they did in Japan (correct me if I'm wrong).  No, it has to have "16" in the name and be a "next generation" cut above the current crop because the Genesis just launched two weeks before them with "16-bit" plastered across the front.  That's fine for marketing, but the the first wave of orange-label games they're rushing over from Japan are one- or two-years-old.  Some, like Keith Courage, look truly next generation.  Others, like Vigilante and World Court Tennis, look like souped-up 8-bit games IMO.

Furthermore, four of those first-impression, orange-label games are already available on the SMS which North Americans are rapidly writing off. 

So, to summarize your points that I'm trying to address:
1)  Did the pre-existing SMS games impact the TG16?  That's up for debate. 

2)  Is the TG16 strictly a "16-bit, forth-generation" console?  In my opinion, no, it spanned the third and forth generations.

3)  Why are we comparing the SMS and TG16?  I hope I've made that painfully clear.

As for the "console generation" terminology, I'm not talking about advertising.  I'm talking about the neat little packages of "third generation", "forth generation", etc. nonsense fans have grouped consoles into on wikipedia and elsewhere.  I never heard anyone refer to these categories until five or ten years ago. 

[Tatsujin]

2)  Is the TG16 strictly a "16-bit, forth-generation" console?  In my opinion, no, it spanned the third and forth generations.

I have to kinda agree with that opinion. Nevertheless it was still enough powerfull that it could hold up with the "real forth-gen." players, and even surpass them in certain segments.

[Arkhan]

I find it hard for the SMS to beat out the NES, personally.

I blame the lack of RPG presence.

Granted the SMS had a terribly small selection of RPGs, but the ones it did have were very good.

I'd say the following games hold their own against the NES equivalents.
Phantasy Star = Final Fantasy
Ultima IV = Ultima Avatar
Golden Axe Warrior < Zelda 1
Ys > Dragon Warrior
Miracle Warriors = ?

Throw in psuedo rpgs like Lord of the Sword, Golvellius, Spellcaster, Gauntlet, Kings Quest, Populous, Dragon Crystal, and Alex Kidd High-Tech and the SMS wasn't that bad.

The Ultima comparison kinda doesn't work for me since the two are radically. frigging. different.  I like them both really, but if I am going to play the PC style ones, id rather play on the PC....

anyway, yes it wasn't that bad but it had no longstanding series.  FF had 3 games, DQ had 4 games, Wizardry 1 and 2 happened, we got THREE ultima games....Scheherezade, ghost lion, and then if you count Japan there was a bunch of other stuff....


I will say Golvellius pummels Zelda though.

There weren't enough console-style RPGs though.  and it really sucked, because PS proved it could be done amazingly on the system.

[lord_cack]

I think its kind of funny we would speculate weather or not the SMS impacted the sales of the Turbo. Honestly, the point is really null. The NES and Nintendo's legal practices had the only real impact on the scene at the time, in my opinion anyway. The thought that the SMS effected sales of the Turbo at all are quite small I would think.

The NES had the variety, with most of the games, as mentioned in previous posts, either being equal too or better than the ones available on other systems at the time. They had the best Sports titles (thats ALL sports titles Football, Golf, Tennis, Basket.... you get the point), with the exception of Phantasy Star, the NES has the best RPG's, certainly the best Action and Adventure games. You see where this goes from here.

Even if arguments could be made comparing the quality of the titles, the quantity can't be compared. But even then the last nail in the coffin so to speak is price. The best games for the NES where easily accessible with the purchase of the core unit alone, because thats all there was. You didn't have to buy more accessories (CD-ROMS etc.). While that also holds true with the SMS, the titles just weren't there, nor were they as widely available.