Author Topic: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???  (Read 9205 times)

Tatsujin

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #240 on: March 30, 2011, 05:03:06 AM »
Quote from: Arkhan

Over arping is a European thing.  SO many euro games are arptastic abortions.



An EU thing I guess.

At least we had literally TONS of quite to very good game musics in the later 80s :)

What did you guys have in big Amerika?
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Bonknuts

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #241 on: March 30, 2011, 05:05:42 AM »
Quote
What did you guys have in big Amerika?

 We had wonderful Japanese games ;)

Tatsujin

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #242 on: March 30, 2011, 05:10:20 AM »
Quote
What did you guys have in big Amerika?

 We had wonderful Japanese games ;)

Wrong answer, we had them too. In additional :idea:

;)
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Bonknuts

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #243 on: March 30, 2011, 05:17:58 AM »
Yeah, but that's all we ever needed 8) Japanese made the best games back then. No use in playing anything else, really  :mrgreen:

ddd1234

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #244 on: March 30, 2011, 06:41:15 AM »
Yeah, but that's all we ever needed 8) Japanese made the best games back then. No use in playing anything else, really  :mrgreen:

Yeah, until they went really perverted and overloaded the market with dating Sims.
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spenoza

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #245 on: March 30, 2011, 07:50:22 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I think these arps can be used well (in moderation and subtly), but I've heard a lot of Euro PC game soundtracks that warble the frick out of every note, and that gets old REALLY fast.

*EDIT* I guess I should clarify, then, that I don't have a problem so much with the arpeggios so much as I have a problem with their omnipresence. I like them until I hear a C64 track, and then for some reason I hate them.

Yeah, Japanese composers can be melody whores, but they do often do some really nice percussion lines on the noise channels.
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Joe Redifer

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #246 on: March 30, 2011, 11:13:31 AM »
Quote from: ccovell
Arpeggios aren't just sound chip abuse -- they actually serve to form chords on sound chips that have few channels and need more oomph like the SID and SMS PSG.

Arpeggios are the equivalent of dithering.  So Arpeggios are good but dithering is bad?  I don't hear chords, I hear a wobbling note.  Maybe I hear faster than most, I don't know.  But anyone who actually hears chords from arpeggios must be listening through RF or have some sort of blur filter on their audio (just like dithering works with graphics).  The Flash has some of the worst music for the Sega Master System.  It doesn't sound beefy at all.  There is no "oomph" to it.

ccovell

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #247 on: March 30, 2011, 11:20:46 AM »
Yes, comparing arps to dithering is not so far off.  But it is still such high-speed "dithering" that it's more like magazine halftone printing than in-game videogame dithering.  Without even the dithering in the printing industry, all your magazines would be composed of bands of 4 solid colours.   :)

nat

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #248 on: March 30, 2011, 11:24:22 AM »
Overdone arpeggios suck ass.

The worst song on the entire Turbo platform? The Impossamole title screen track.

This is fact, and it's no coincidence.

Arkhan

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #249 on: March 30, 2011, 12:06:02 PM »
arps are wonderful, colorful little explosions when used right.  However, when thats ALL that is used, the melody is quickly lost, and you have background noise instead of a nice song.  Its exactly like the sweep-arpeggiated metal guitar shit going on today.  Eventually it becomes "ok, please stop. do something else".  But when you throw little sweep runs in the middle of things, and chain them together with actual melodies, it sounds really great.

My Roland SH-101 mimics the SID sound very well, including the arps.  Though, I can do way cooler arps due to it being a keyboard.  More complexity to the chords, yay.

The SIDs real color and life comes from layering nicely filtered, PWM'd leads together.  Its the layering of the channels that makes the sound chip sound great.  Each of those channels on their own aren't really very unique.
 see, no arps.  Sounds nice.   Nice arps.  Not overused and disastrous.  The thick as f*ck bass carries the tune.  Whenever the arps/chords occur, they dont overtake anything and you don't lose the melody.  Perfection.

and Tats, America may not have done anything stellar, but we also didn't over-arp the shit out of every chip we ever touched, and produce completely asstastic ports of awesome games.


This was so bad, Konami didn't let white people touch their games for awhile.

Yeah, but that's all we ever needed 8) Japanese made the best games back then. No use in playing anything else, really  :mrgreen:


Yeah, until they went really perverted and overloaded the market with dating Sims.


Most of those dating sims are pretty fun.  Including the ones that are all f*cked up and strange/unrealistic.  Jast had alot of good ones. 


« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 12:08:22 PM by Arkhan »
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Joe Redifer

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #250 on: March 30, 2011, 12:51:04 PM »
I don't mind if they are used intermittently, but when they are used as a main instrument, I am bothered by it.

TheOldMan

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #251 on: March 30, 2011, 01:55:22 PM »
Quote
Yes, comparing arps to dithering is not so far off.  But it is still such high-speed "dithering" that it's more like magazine halftone printing ....
Hunh? Maybe if the dots on the paper changed sizes....
Half-toning would be more like silencing a voice on/off, like through a fan, maybe.

Quote
Without even the dithering in the printing industry, all your magazines would be composed of bands of 4 solid colours.

Okay, am I the only one having trouble with this comparison?
Dithering is when you place 2 or more dots next to each other, to 'trick' the eye into seeing a third color, right?
Or is there some other kind of dithering you're talking about???

Halftoning, on the other hand, is when you place larger or smaller dots of a single color on a sheet of paper, to make the color look more/less saturated. Even using one color and a background, you can get a -lot- of shades of the color, by varying the dot size.

And I happen to like comic-style 4 color artwork, thank you.

--------- I do understand what you're trying to say, though. Arps (properly called apeggios, for those who don't know) are an attempt to mimic a chord sound in one channel- but there is an inherent flaw in that. The human ear can hear up to about 41KHz; anything that changes faster than that most people won't be able to hear.
And anything slower, they will hear as two distinct tones (and not the combined frequencies of a chord).  Maybe if you mixed the frequencies together and went for the combination, it might work. To me, they just sound like someone trying too hard to play something simple .
(Kinda like when they do all the fancy trills and stuff on american idol; the song wasn't originally written with all that stuff, so quit putting it in - it only ruins the song! Sing what's written, and Quit Showing Off. Or can't you hold a single note in tune that long???)

Arkhan

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #252 on: March 30, 2011, 02:04:11 PM »
true arpeggios are meant to be elegant.

Arpeggios are just the notes of a chord played one after the other.  The place they came from, classical music, uses them quite nicely as a way to blend melody, and provide background depth while other things are going on.

You don't really hear bubbly super fast 240bpm blerpberlp arpeggios in classical music land.  That would be kind of hilarious though.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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esteban

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #253 on: March 31, 2011, 11:09:56 PM »
THE RAMPANT ANTI-ARPEGGIO PROPAGANDA IS BUNK

Sorry folks, but you're missing out on a literal goldmine of fantastic tunes. I pity you, but, clearly, musical taste is one of the most subjective things in life and I will just say to you: "Don't be a hater" :)



ANTI-C64 PROPAGANDA IS BUNK

Even if you LOATHE arpeggio+C64, you can spend eons listening to marvelous tracks that never/barely use arpeggio.

So, please do not allow your arpeggio intolerance to dismiss the entire C64 goldmine of tunes.



The worst song on the entire Turbo platform? The Impossamole title screen track.

This is fact, and it's no coincidence.

FALSE. In the Turbo library, it is one of the standout title screens. In fact, this is law. I am law. :)

Seriously, though, I really do love the title music to Impossamole.
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grahf

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Re: Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???
« Reply #254 on: April 01, 2011, 05:27:39 AM »
C64 kicks ass. Back in those days I didn't really pay attention to music in games (didn't really listen to music much at all in my teens),  but even I knew there was something special about the Commodore.