Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???

[TheOldMan]

It has mapped space for a 32k sram chip. But since there are no upper address lines, it just wraps and mirrors the single 8k sram 4 times. Why?

Because 32K Chips were VERY expensive..... I know I paid $100+ for a 32K upgrade (2 x (4k x 4bit chips) - that's 16Kbits per chip, by 2 chips) for another computer around that time. And that was split across 2 smaller chips. No one was using 32K chips because of the price. And 32Kx8 bits was unheard of back then - After all :"Who needs more than 640K?"

How much time passed before the SGX came out? Even in 6 months, there was a lot of changes (see moore's law) back then. And as chip sizes went up, prices went down. They still do.

[spenoza]

I spent a period of time wondering why the hell people loved turrican so much, so I literally played every version of it ever, on every platform.

I still think the games retarded.

I don't know about retarded, but I do agree that something feels off about the Turrican games. They could have been fun with some gameplay tweaks, but they just weren't there for me.

That said, I'll have to disagree with you on Illusion of Gaia. I found it to be pretty thin. Here's my opinion on the game circa 7 years ago: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588383-illusion-of-gaia/reviews/review-71991

[Bonknuts]

It has mapped space for a 32k sram chip. But since there are no upper address lines, it just wraps and mirrors the single 8k sram 4 times. Why?

Because 32K Chips were VERY expensive..... I know I paid $100+ for a 32K upgrade (2 x (4k x 4bit chips) - that's 16Kbits per chip, by 2 chips) for another computer around that time. And that was split across 2 smaller chips. No one was using 32K chips because of the price. And 32Kx8 bits was unheard of back then - After all :"Who needs more than 640K?"

How much time passed before the SGX came out? Even in 6 months, there was a lot of changes (see moore's law) back then. And as chip sizes went up, prices went down. They still do.

 Consumer market prices for ram upgrades weren't the same as a large company like NEC setting up a deal to purchase a large supply of ram chips.

 Almost a year to date, the Megadrive debuted with 64k of system ram (two 32Kx8bit). Besides, the VDCs in the PCE itself used a pair of 32Kx8bit sram (no vram) chips for its 32Kword memory. Hell, /RDY is there on the 6280 (except the cart port). They could have easily used cheaper DRAM + a controller. The early CDROM addon modules supposedly uses DRAM for the onboard 64k of CD RAM (dunno about ADPCM ram - two 64Kx4bit IIRC). The SCD upgrade cards probably uses 32Kx8bit sram too (along with one 128Kx8bit). I know the Arcade card Pro does as I recently took it apart (1x HM628128ALT7 and 2x 84256A-70LL). Though I've been told the later Duo models uses a single 256k sram chip (makes sense). Anyway, they were already using 32Kx8bit chips for the VDC, so they had a supplier and a better setup to buy in larger bulk to keep costs down. Cutting system ram ended up biting them in the ass IMO. More ram means less decompression on the fly and more free cpu resource (cached tiles/sprites), and more advanced compression schemes to make up for the smaller hucard sizes. Populous was the only hucard game to get a ram upgrade (32k too). IMO, their first mistake was cutting the ram size down to 8k, 2nd) only giving 64k of ram for the CD addon, 3rd) only giving an additional 192k of ram for the SCD upgrade card. They seriously over compensated with the arcade card, but it was too late by then. Core system should have been 32k, CD addon 128k, SCD addon 256k additional minimum (384k optimal for a total of 512k). I mean, you have RPGs on this new SCD upgrade with black back grounds and no enemy animation. And some SCD RPGs even loaded enemies from the CD on every encounter. The PCE just spent most its life under ram'd.

 I personally think they underplayed the hucard games while they readied the CD unit. That's probably why it got cut in the ram department. If for some reason they needed more ram later on, you can always provided it via the hucard pcb. Except, the screwed up on the CD base ram. If the original system had the 32k of system ram, the 64k wouldn't have been as bad. Though 128k is still would it should have started off with regardless. The original PCE VDCs are setup for 128k of sram too. But only 64k was installed. If they went that route, the 8k system ram wouldn't have been much of a problem (you'd have more than enough vram to cache sprite frames and tiles). Funny, the SGX technically has 128k of vram and 32k of system ram. They get that right, and it flops. Figures...

[Tatsujin]

I remember paying around 100 bucks for a 512KB RAM upgrade for my Amiga in like 1989. Or was that a different type of RAM?

video RAM not equal system RAM?

[SignOfZeta]

Yoshi's island

Maybe this is one of those games that you need to play for a while to appreciate, but I really don't like it.  The worst sound in the entire world is that of a crying baby and this game has it in spades, decreasing the enjoyment substantially because of that sound effect alone.

I love Yoshi's Island. It is, IMO, the greatest game of all time. It has no flaws.

What about the annoying baby crying, you say?

Don't you see? That's just one more reason its perfect. You only hear the kid when you are lose him. Play better, ie: don't lose him, and you won't hear him scream. Does his scream have to be that annoying? f*ck yes! You'd just let Koopa keep him if he wasn't so damned irritating. The way it is you learn to grab his ass and put him back on the saddle in less than a second, once you get good at the game. Sure its not fun to hear him cry, and its not fun to put more quarters into a Metal Slug machine either. That's what drives you to get better at the game.

Its the same mechanism that evolution built into actual human babies so that their parents wouldn't ignore them. Its f*cking genius.

[SignOfZeta]

I remember paying around 100 bucks for a 512KB RAM upgrade for my Amiga in like 1989. Or was that a different type of RAM?

video RAM not equal system RAM?

When I doubled the RAM in my Mac SE to a then large 1MB it cost...I don't remember. It was fabulously expensive though. Several hundred bucks, at least. The optional 20MB HD was a grand (actually more, since that model was minus a FD).

I'm sure if I were buying the same amount of memory for an AT clone it would have been cheaper that Apple's official stuff (of course, it also would have been useless).

My point is that the price of raw memory is only a single factor. You also have to consider who sold it, how it was packaged, how many people bought it in that packaged form, etc.

[Gogan]

Everyone has great stories here, I personally liked TG/PCE, aside from the great library, was the sheer underdog status. You never saw a bigger selection at game stores than geny/snes etc. You never saw more reviews/ads in game mags. You never saw more ppl with a TG, if any!

I did enjoy the others, but they utterly failed when compared to TG. my bro had a Genny bitd, and he'd b playing Growl. I'd laugh at him and go back in my room to play Bloody Wolf.

TG/PCE is just the bees f*ckin' knees

[nodtveidt]

Man...That's a scary thought. Maybe you didn't spend too much time with it?
The story picks up in the future part of the game.

Capture my interest from the opening moment or lose my interest forever. I played this game for two hours and it was a snorefest the whole time.

Dynamite headdy

*yawn*

fire shark

Booooring.

elemental master

Ugh.

vectorman

Overhyped snorefest.

Skyblazer

Gross.

Demon's crest

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am very picky.

[Bonknuts]

video RAM not equal system RAM?

 The term vram is used loosely. Most will say that it originally meant dual ported ram (you can it has two buses) - thus video circuit and cpu can both access it at the same time. In reality, most video systems in the 80s and 90s didn't use dual port ram. They used normal sram or dram (some used double speed ram and just interleaved access of two devices). When ram is specific to the video processor (and usually isolated, but not always), it's referred to vram to keep the description in context. SRAM is more expensive than DRAM, but it is faster (and was by a lot back then) and very simple to setup. DRAM is slower, though might be fast enough for what you need, but requires special controller logic and has refresh periods (no access time). It introduces timing issues that might cause problems with some designs or just make it rather complex in design.

 I remember reading the original Atari ST lines of computers uses 150ns DRAM. And that 68k was 8mhz vs the Amiga's 7.01mhz (PAL). I wouldn't doubt it was about that speed for the Amiga as well.

[ddd1234]

Could EGM be the cause of TG16's demise?

I mean their ratings for some of the better TG16 games were just unfair.

For example, Super star soldier got 6.5/10, Soldier blade got 6/10, Terraforming got 4/10, Super Air zonk got 5.5/10, Buster bros got 5.5/10.

This mag was very harsh towards the Turbo.

I will scan the ratings and post em here sometime.

But, I did appropriate Gamepro's ratings, they were great at reviewing turbo games. However I did not like their review of Ys 3, which scored a 3.0 for the fun factor.  

[soop]

The one copy of EGM I had didn't have scores at all, but it was a crappy publication.

[Mathius]

I loved EGM bitd! But, I will say that if they gave the Turbo as much coverage as they did the PC Engine things may have changed a little.

I still blame the Turbo's demise on NEC Japan and their marketing strategy.

[nat]

Could EGM be the cause of TG16's demise?

I mean their ratings for some of the better TG16 games were just unfair.

For example, Super star soldier got 6.5/10, Soldier blade got 6/10, Terraforming got 4/10, Super Air zonk got 5.5/10, Buster bros got 5.5/10.

This mag was very harsh towards the Turbo.

In this context, I disagree completely.

Super Star Soldier - 6.5? This is a bit generous, in my opinion.

Soldier Blade - 6.0? I'll give you this one, Soldier Blade should be an 8 or 9.

Terraforming - 4.0? Probably a perfect score. If Terraforming had the gameplay to match the visuals, it'd be a 10. As it stands, it looks good, but no one's home.

Super Air Zonk - 5.5? Probably another perfect score.

Buster Bros. is the only game here I can't comment on, as I haven't played it beyond the five seconds I used to test out my copy when I bought it.

Based on these games alone, I'd say EGM was very fair in their ratings... Look, there are tons of great games in the US TurboGrafx-16 library. There are multitudes more, however, in the Japanese library that never even got a chance domestically. The TurboGrafx failed because NEC failed in one key area: understanding the American market.

[Otaking]

Super star soldier got 6.5/10

eerrr.. no

Soldier blade got 6/10

WTF

Electronic Gayming Monthly

[ddd1234]

@Nat

Ooh come on...what's wrong with Super Star Soldier?

I believe it deserves a 8.5/10. It's a addicting shooter, But too easy to finish.  

Terraforming is 5.5/10 for me, Great graphics, music and slightly above average game play.

Super Air Zonk deserves 8/10....It may not have the flashy effects, But i find the game play more addicting than the first part.