Author Topic: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!  (Read 13207 times)

EsperKnight

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #105 on: May 07, 2011, 12:41:55 PM »
If I made a bet with you SamIAm I already know I'd jinx myself and lose :D

If anyone's curious about why it's taking so long with Xanadu II it's due to the fact that each script is hard coded to load for certain scenarios and the pointers to the pointers for the lines are hard code into the code plus they're all spread out (the pointers).  The scripts themselves I think number at almost 200 currently as each one has maybe a max of 10 lines a script (if even). 

The good thing is I can automate finding possible script blocks.  The pain is filtering them (which I do programatically but that doesn't mean a 100% hit).  The other part is just time and RL stuff :)

The next fun part will be going through all those scripts and setting them up for insertion :(

We're getting there though!

Black Tiger

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #106 on: May 07, 2011, 02:07:58 PM »
If I made a bet with you SamIAm I already know I'd jinx myself and lose :D

If anyone's curious about why it's taking so long with Xanadu II it's due to the fact that each script is hard coded to load for certain scenarios and the pointers to the pointers for the lines are hard code into the code plus they're all spread out (the pointers).  The scripts themselves I think number at almost 200 currently as each one has maybe a max of 10 lines a script (if even). 

The good thing is I can automate finding possible script blocks.  The pain is filtering them (which I do programatically but that doesn't mean a 100% hit).  The other part is just time and RL stuff :)

The next fun part will be going through all those scripts and setting them up for insertion :(

We're getting there though!

We certainly appreciate all your hard work. Translating a game like this is as much a treat as a new original game. :D
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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #107 on: May 07, 2011, 03:52:55 PM »
If I made a bet with you SamIAm I already know I'd jinx myself and lose :D

If anyone's curious about why it's taking so long with Xanadu II it's due to the fact that each script is hard coded to load for certain scenarios and the pointers to the pointers for the lines are hard code into the code plus they're all spread out (the pointers).  The scripts themselves I think number at almost 200 currently as each one has maybe a max of 10 lines a script (if even). 

The good thing is I can automate finding possible script blocks.  The pain is filtering them (which I do programatically but that doesn't mean a 100% hit).  The other part is just time and RL stuff :)

The next fun part will be going through all those scripts and setting them up for insertion :(

We're getting there though!

We certainly appreciate all your hard work. Translating a game like this is as much a treat as a new original game. :D

Ditto!

SamIAm

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #108 on: May 07, 2011, 10:03:12 PM »
Good news, guys! Esperknight just dumped the rest of the Xanadu II script!!
I don't know how long reinsertion is going to take, but the translation side is about to finish! Well, finish until play-testing begins, that is - I'm going to want to re-edit the script after I get a chance to play the first draft of my translation. I do want it to look good, after all. :)

Arjak

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #109 on: May 09, 2011, 08:55:37 AM »
ZOMG! First LoX2, now TM2!? I think I'm feeling euphoric right now! =P~

BTW, does anyone know how the translation of TM1 is going? I haven't heard anything for a while.

EDIT: One other thing, if you decide to make Manji Maru your next project, and if you are planning to do an English dub, send me an email! I'd be glad to try out for some parts! I really enjoyed playing Nuse in LoX2, and I would love to do more!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 10:15:30 AM by Arjak »
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SamIAm

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #110 on: May 10, 2011, 02:44:52 AM »
Just curious, but what do you folks in this community think of the Working Designs translation style? I've played a couple of their translations and the original Japanese versions (particularly Popful Mail on Sega CD), and working on an RPG translation myself, it's really easy to see how they approached their stuff.

They used a lot of pop-culture jokes, which I don't especially agree with, but they also had a way of twisting some of the more boring, asinine lines into something funny by saying essentially the same thing, but implying a little more mischief. It's mighty tempting to mimic some of that with LoXII, but I'm being conservative since it basically doesn't fit the tone of the original. If I do TMII, on the other hand, I think it's appropriate to let loose a little more. What do you guys think?

EDIT: Oh, and Arjak, thanks for your help! We'll be in touch. :)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 02:51:05 AM by SamIAm »

Necromancer

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #111 on: May 10, 2011, 02:56:41 AM »
Except for popular references that get less funny with each passing day, I'm generally okay with irreverent translations as long as the revised script is competently written and not cornier than Iowa in August.
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SamIAm

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #112 on: May 10, 2011, 03:13:19 AM »
Maybe I'll just take the Dave Barry approach and add "...HAR!" after any bad puns I come up with.

Arjak

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #113 on: May 10, 2011, 06:03:58 AM »
I think that I'd would actually prefer if there were not too much rewriting, except things like making the jokes accessible to English speakers. If you think you can add a little pizazz here and there to the script and make it stay true to the tone of the original, I'm fine with that. Just don't, PLEASE don't go full-blown Working Designs style on us. For one thing, I know that some people are offended by how much WD changed things just to add cheap gags, and I also feel that jokes just for the sake of jokes is unnecessary, especially if it doesn't fit the style of the story being told. A good story can stand on its own without constantly winking at the audience.

Imagine if some idiot had written tons of pop culture references and poop jokes into Shakespeare's plays; I don't think people would appreciate them as much.
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SamIAm

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2011, 07:12:23 AM »
Heh, don't worry, you're safe from having me try to pull that kind of stuff.

I always try to maintain the tone of the original, and as I said, in LoX2's case, it's pretty straightforward. It's tempting to exaggerate the occasional pointless NPC line to make it a little more entertaining, but I'll hesitate to do that most of the time. Of course, as anyone translating Japanese dialogue to English should, I've taken a couple liberties in places so far. However, I think most would agree with the choices I've made, and that the changes themselves are fairly minor.

If I do TMII, on the other hand, I think there's a very silly tone that really ought to be represented in English even if it does mean taking a greater degree of liberty with the script. Again, a good example is Popful Mail on Sega CD. Pop-culture jokes aside, the stuff WD added to that game was mostly appropriate simply because being lighthearted and funny was the whole point from the beginning. In fact, that's one game where I dare say the translation was a little better written than the original, if only because the English characters and scenes are funnier and more memorable. That's just my subjective take on it, though.

How is Cosmic Fantasy II on the Duo?

Black Tiger

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #115 on: May 10, 2011, 09:05:18 AM »
What Working Designs did in theory, particularly the way you describe it, is fine. It was the execution that was off quite often. Dropping any humor into a humorous or wacky game is not the same as using the right humor. Bad jokes are jokes... except that they're bad. :P A game having jokes in the Japanese original isn't an excuse for any jokes at any time.

People usually argue about whether WD should've put jokes into games at all. For me it was more the actual content that was disapoointing at times, not the principle. Cosmic Fantasy 2 was probably the best jokey translation they did. Popful Mail's Hanz and Franz impression was pretty terrible. It wasn't well written (or performed) humor, it was a bad rip off of someone else's character, reciting a list of puns in place of legitimate jokes.

What you are pitching would be cool and you sound like you could pull it off well. But I
think that Working Designs provided many examples of how not to do it. Although they did some good non-jokey writing, most of their humor was exactly like how a bad sense of humor is normally portayed in film, TV, etc. Michael Scott has the exact same sense of humor as Vic Ireland, except that he's a fictional character and his poor grasp of humor is the joke.

I might just not have sense of humor since I don't find everything or anything hilarious and movies like Norbit make hundreds of millions of dollars. So I'm definitely in the minority. :)
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roflmao

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #116 on: May 10, 2011, 09:39:14 AM »
Yeah, I remember finishing Cosmic Fantasy 2 (finally.. back in 96 or 97 or somewhere thereabouts) but man it was a complete slog by the end.  It didn't keep my interest like even some of the later WD Saturn rpgs, and didn't come close to most of the stuff Square did (though I never finished FF7 so take my comments with a grain of salt).

SamIAm

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #117 on: May 10, 2011, 10:27:50 AM »
^^Do you mean slog in terms of dialogue, or in terms of gameplay/the experience as a whole?

Not to come off as haughty or anything, but back in college, I actually took a J2E translation class. One of the big concepts the professor drove home with us is just how much translation style depends on what the audience is expecting. At least from a certain perspective, the expected style of the output is actually more important than the style of the original material.

The trouble with a translation that's supposed to appeal to a wide audience is that there's simply no pleasing everybody. People often talk about translation in general being an imperfect process just because of differences in language and culture, but this target-audience aspect adds another layer to that as well.

Without a doubt, every Working Designs game I've seen has what I consider to be bad jokes in it. I also totally agree that they've taught the localization business what NOT to do just as much as anything else. Still, I can sympathize with them. It's bloody difficult to decide what kind of humor to settle on, in addition to coming up with material in the first place. I'd like to think that I can just roll with my own style and judgement completely, and maybe that's what they did, but in a way, that's even scarier.

Anyway...phew!...Sorry, I needed a break. :)

roflmao

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #118 on: May 10, 2011, 11:51:14 AM »
I don't know if it was translation or part of the experience as a whole - I would guess the experience as a while as I cannot compare the Japanese version.  I don't mean to bag on WD - I'm thankful to them for bringing over as many RPGs as they did - you know it had to be a challenging task or more game companies would have attempted it.  I think the game just got way to repetitive from what I remember (though we're talking about a game I completed nearly 15 years ago so my memory's fuzzy).  Also I think the random battles happened way too often if I remember correctly, but what RPG out then didn't?

termis

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Re: Legend of Xanadu II Translation Patch announced!
« Reply #119 on: May 11, 2011, 04:59:59 AM »
I have mixed feelings about being super creative about translations.

I once translated something, and the editor of the series heavily changed the context/environment of the series into something that just didn't fit very well (Force-fitting European myth/legends over Korean ones).  It just came out reading... a bit weird to me.  That said, I guess it probably made it easier to read for the average Joe westerner.

In all, I think some RPGs are more suitable for creative translations - ones that already have humours, light-hearted background/music/charcaters/etc in the original.  For example, RPGs like Dragon Knight, Gulliver Boy, Lunar, Cosmic Fantasies.  On the other hand, taking more creative liberties in translating more "serious" RPGs like say... Phantasy Star series, would just come out sounding awkward.

Now, I haven't played LoX series yet, so I don't know much about the general atmosphere/mood of this particular series.