Author Topic: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'  (Read 858 times)

BEERS AND VIDEOS

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Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« on: March 30, 2011, 05:00:14 AM »
I've heard so many great things about Lunar, and have tried to play it a few times on the Sega CD. But two things make me cringe and I can't get into it.

First, the vocals on the opening song are just embarrassing ("all through the night...."). It sounds so lame. The second is what a rip off the intro is. You can tell they used the Ys intro as a template (storming clouds lightening to start, red eyes then lighting that exposes monsters, etc). .

I guess I'm wondering if I should give the game more of a chance. What do you think?

Bonknuts

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 05:12:34 AM »
Actually, some of the cinemas 'frames' seemed to be copied from other Japanese anime and manga. Armen had some really interesting comparisons. Don't remember the link. He should chime in and post.

nodtveidt

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 05:19:40 AM »
The game itself is a masterpiece despite the obvious Ys ripoff in the intro and Vic's lame-ass opening song. :) However... the original Japanese opening song is EVEN WORSE, so the US version isn't terrible in comparison. :D

DragonmasterDan

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 06:02:06 AM »
I've heard so many great things about Lunar, and have tried to play it a few times on the Sega CD. But two things make me cringe and I can't get into it.

First, the vocals on the opening song are just embarrassing ("all through the night...."). It sounds so lame. The second is what a rip off the intro is. You can tell they used the Ys intro as a template (storming clouds lightening to start, red eyes then lighting that exposes monsters, etc).
.

I guess I'm wondering if I should give the game more of a chance. What do you think?


As others mentioned, a lot of those shots from the intro are/were anime cliches.

Secondly, ABSOLUTELY give the game more of a chance. It's fantastic!
--DragonmasterDan

Black Tiger

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 11:42:20 AM »
Yeah, most anime style CD games used anime cliches. I can't post a link at the moment, but there is a video on youtube that is "every anime intro".

BEERS' -give Lunar SS a chance, but even if you don't like it, make sure to still give Lunar EB a chance.  Lunar SS was overly ambitious and wasn't quite finished when it finally shipped. Lunar EB is much more polished.
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BEERS AND VIDEOS

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 11:59:57 AM »
I will definitely give it another shot. The fact that all you guys, being PC Engine / Turbo fans, endorse it makes me really want to give it another stab.

Arkhan

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 12:11:09 PM »
Thats not a ripoff of Ys.

That is just standard Anime theatrics.  There are so many shows with scenes like this, that its not even worth trying to count.  You will get bored.
Sailor Moon does it!

Lunar, in every form (except the GBA one.  That one was gimpy), is a-f*cking-mazing.    You should definitely play the hell out of them.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Arm

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 12:16:55 PM »
"Actually, some of the cinemas 'frames' seemed to be copied from other Japanese anime and manga. Armen had some really interesting comparisons. Don't remember the link. He should chime in and post."


The creator of the original Lunar is Kazunari Tomi, who had worked for Nihon Falcom, on Ys and Sorcerian in the mid 80's, before creating Studio Alex with Kei Shigema.
Shigema had connections with the animation company Gainax. That's how I think they decided to hire Toshiyuki Kubooka as character designer (who was an animator on the series Nadia the secret of Blue Water or the movie Royal Space Force.)
Gainax was an animation company who also produced video games like the Princess Maker series, Gotzendiener (with studio Alex) or Alisia Dragoon (with GameArts).

Tomi having worked for Falcom, this can explain why there are elements in the opening of Lunar which are close to the opening of Ys like the camera shot with the monsters panning up to DarkFact/Ghaleon. There are also several shots which are almost carbon copies of scenes  found in the opening of the anime Zillion.

The flying city of Vane in Lunar is also reminiscent of the floating city found in Ys. All this flying continent thing found in jrpgs since the 80's have been inspired by the anime movie Laputa made by Miyazaki. The same thing can be said for the airships found in almost every japanese RPG.
Also, the chocobos found in the FFs, were inspired by creatures found in Nausicaa.

But for the reference of Ys found in Lunar, it goes even further. Adol is actually in the game at the spring of transmission. In the original japanese version, theres a lonely character who isn't named, but who tells you he's a wanderer and  that he had already seen during his past adventures a flying city like Vane but doesn't remember where it was.

http://img857.imageshack.us/i/tssj087.gif/

In the US version, there's no reference to this, and the character appears like some kind of idiot who asks about how many licks it does take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop (?)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 12:26:43 PM by Arm »

Arkhan

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 12:32:51 PM »
thats good ol WD humor for you.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Arm

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 12:56:41 PM »
I wonder if Victor Ireland had noticed the reference to Ys or just decided to add a touch of humor thinking that nobody at the time would have understood the hidden allusion to that game. :)

Arkhan

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 02:22:20 PM »
He probably removed it thinking noone would understand the reference.

At the time, Ys didn't really break into the American world so great.

We had the SMS and the TGCD ones...  and both of those systems were "obscure".

[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Black Tiger

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 02:46:12 PM »
This pretty much sums up the originality of anime-



Adol hanging out in Lunar might be inspired by Kazunari Tomi having worked with Falcom and Ys, but I don't think that the similarities of the Lunar intro have anything to do with it.

The Dark Fact shot and the rest of the PCE intro is the work of Hudson Soft and never appeared in any of Falcom's productions. Even the Ys cinemas were likely a collection of cliches by that point.

I don't think that Working Designs actually attempted to translate anything but strictly game moving dialogue. Adol's text was likely just replaced with random filler like all non-important npcs in WD games.
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Arkhan

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2011, 03:05:25 PM »
Working Designs pioneered the translation concept, even though they kind of did some stupid shit sometimes.

some of the jokes were funny, others were like "what the hell"
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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thrush

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 04:17:12 PM »
Just my 2 cents:

I played Lunar back in the day and loved it, but tried playing the PSX version a few years ago & found it less thrilling than my memories suggested.  Still enjoyable, but there were places where it felt like it could so easily have been so much more....  Maybe it was the update/port that wasn't quite up to snuff but I think some of what was impressive then just doesn't have the same effect now.  For example, regardless of lyrical content or quality simply having an opening vocal track was a big deal for a video game in the early '90s.

I do think it's a great game & well worth playing, just that it hasn't aged as well as some others.  (As a point of comparison, I think Phantasy Star 1 is much more enjoyable now than Final Fantasy 1, though I would have said the opposite in 1988.  And Ys, to my mind, is probably better than both.  ^_-)

ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Lunar Silver Star intro totally rips off Ys'
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 05:04:24 PM »
I wonder if Victor Ireland had noticed the reference to Ys or just decided to add a touch of humor thinking that nobody at the time would have understood the hidden allusion to that game. :)

Well, I do know there was a Last Alert reference in the US PS1 version of Lunar in Meribia(maybe it was EB?).  It's been awhile, but I recall it mentioning Guy Kazama & Chairman Steve being too "stingy"  :D  So, if he would reference Last Alert, it's hard for me to imagine him purposely changing Adol in the original Lunar to say something stupid.  But, that still pisses me off, I can't believe that was taken out of the US version!