Burning games to CD-R

[SignOfZeta]

The idea that CD-Rs kill lasers is bullshit. Maybe if your unit is on the out, and you play nothing but CD-Rs, it might kill the laser off sooner. Even then...I just can't see any scientific reason why CD-Rs would kill lasers. If someone can come up with one then I'm listening but until then...its just superstition.

I've played a few fan translations and a few "out of my league" games like Bazaru De Gozaru No Game Degozaru on my systems with zero issue. Went all the way through the English Y's IV on a laser from 1992 in my Duo R (ie: older than the Duo its in), and most of the way through the translated Startling Odyssey 2 on a briefcase system.

Emulators: Please. Shits all "off" in emulators. They are nice for playing shit you can't get at all, but no substitute for the real thing.

As for the original question of burning these things: If its a normal ISO its pretty much impossible to not burn it correctly. I use Alcohol. If its one of those f*cked up MP3/ISO things...I can't remember how that's even done. Those were created for emulators, mainly.

I didn't know a translated PCE version of Snatcher even existed. I'll look into it. By the time I've finished it we should be just about ready for another urban myth about how CD-Rs supposedly destroy lasers and I'll review it then.

[Mathius]

The idea that CD-Rs kill lasers is bullshit. Maybe if your unit is on the out, and you play nothing but CD-Rs, it might kill the laser off sooner. Even then...I just can't see any scientific reason why CD-Rs would kill lasers. If someone can come up with one then I'm listening but until then...its just superstition.

I've played a few fan translations and a few "out of my league" games like Bazaru De Gozaru No Game Degozaru on my systems with zero issue. Went all the way through the English Y's IV on a laser from 1992 in my Duo R (ie: older than the Duo its in), and most of the way through the translated Startling Odyssey 2 on a briefcase system.

Emulators: Please. Shits all "off" in emulators. They are nice for playing shit you can't get at all, but no substitute for the real thing.

As for the original question of burning these things: If its a normal ISO its pretty much impossible to not burn it correctly. I use Alcohol. If its one of those f*cked up MP3/ISO things...I can't remember how that's even done. Those were created for emulators, mainly.

I didn't know a translated PCE version of Snatcher even existed. I'll look into it. By the time I've finished it we should be just about ready for another urban myth about how CD-Rs supposedly destroy lasers and I'll review it then.

I am mainly interested in the Sega CD Snatcher.

If it's true that CD-Rs and my Turbo-CD will get along that would make my day! I would LOVE to play Ys IV!

[SignOfZeta]

I am mainly interested in the Sega CD Snatcher.

Ah, that would explain why I can't find an English PCE one.

How much is that game worth now? I thought it was still well under $100. I'd just buy the thing.

If it's true that CD-Rs and my Turbo-CD will get along that would make my day! I would LOVE to play Ys IV!

I assure you its true since I did it, and so did many people here.

[DragonmasterDan]

The idea that CD-Rs kill lasers is bullshit. Maybe if your unit is on the out, and you play nothing but CD-Rs, it might kill the laser off sooner. Even then...I just can't see any scientific reason why CD-Rs would kill lasers. If someone can come up with one then I'm listening but until then...its just superstition.

The reason is very simple, CD-Rs are created differently than glass mastered CDs.

Unlike an ordinary glass mastered CD, the CD-R has an organic dye recording layer between the polycarbonate substrate and the light reflective layer. In addition, the polycarbonate substrate is etched with a spiral pre-groove. This results in CD-Rs not being as reflective and can cause more wear and tear on an optical device trying to read them.

Added in edit: I should probably mention this. Will it kill your system immediately to play a CD-R? No probably not. But an old (old as in design) laser like the ones found in the Turbo CD or Duo are likely to have a lot more trouble focusing and reading the less reflective CD-Rs than a newer console, PC optical drive, or even a modern knock-off discman. The end result is your laser is having to move around and focus and refocus a lot more than it normally would in standard operation to read a CD-R greatly improving the chances of eventual failure of your optical component.

Further Edit: Here's an old link for some further background on CD-Rs and reflectivity
http://www.vochor.com/cd_playability.html

[Mathius]

I am mainly interested in the Sega CD Snatcher.

Ah, that would explain why I can't find an English PCE one.

How much is that game worth now? I thought it was still well under $100. I'd just buy the thing.

If it's true that CD-Rs and my Turbo-CD will get along that would make my day! I would LOVE to play Ys IV!

I assure you its true since I did it, and so did many people here.

Snatcher has reached over the $150 range. Damn shame!

[DragonmasterDan]

Snatcher has reached over the $150 range. Damn shame!

For a game that takes 6-8 hours to play through that is a lot.

It's a great game though!

[sunteam_paul]

If you have mp3 files you should convert all the mp3 files into .wav format. You can use Winamp for this (setting the output to DiskWriter). You need to make sure that wavs are named exactly as in the .cue file (open that in notepad). If they aren't then it won't work.
I burn in Nero and that works fine.

[Bernie]

What settings do you use in Nero when burning.  I cannot remember what I used a couple years back.  disc at once or something. The version of Nero Burning ROM I have has two settings for disc at once. One is disc at one/96 and the other is disc,session at once  Also, what the heck is "Super Link", and should I have it checked?  I hate my memory....   

If you have mp3 files you should convert all the mp3 files into .wav format. You can use Winamp for this (setting the output to DiskWriter). You need to make sure that wavs are named exactly as in the .cue file (open that in notepad). If they aren't then it won't work.
I burn in Nero and that works fine.

[sunteam_paul]

Eh?
I just use the wizard, burn 'other CD formats' and select the .cue file. That's all really. My Nero is probably quite old though so there are probably a lot more options now.

[Bernie]

LOL.  Lost ya huh?  Yeah, I am using version 10.  What version are you using?  I think I was using 6.0 back when I had successful burns.

[SignOfZeta]

The reason is very simple, CD-Rs are created differently than glass mastered CDs.

Unlike an ordinary glass mastered CD, the CD-R has an organic dye recording layer between the polycarbonate substrate and the light reflective layer. In addition, the polycarbonate substrate is etched with a spiral pre-groove. This results in CD-Rs not being as reflective and can cause more wear and tear on an optical device trying to read them.

Added in edit: I should probably mention this. Will it kill your system immediately to play a CD-R? No probably not. But an old (old as in design) laser like the ones found in the Turbo CD or Duo are likely to have a lot more trouble focusing and reading the less reflective CD-Rs than a newer console, PC optical drive, or even a modern knock-off discman. The end result is your laser is having to move around and focus and refocus a lot more than it normally would in standard operation to read a CD-R greatly improving the chances of eventual failure of your optical component.

Further Edit: Here's an old link for some further background on CD-Rs and reflectivity
http://www.vochor.com/cd_playability.html

Oh I understand the difference between a real CD and CD-R. I understand that some drives won't read CD-Rs as easily as regular CDs, ect. I just dont buy into the theory that some extra focusing physically destroys the drive. That seems like a semi-logical leap at best, and the burden of proof should be on the purveyors of this hypothosis, IMO.

Obviously if you are playing a game and the thing is constantly dropping out on rebook tracks and it takes 10 minutes to load sections that used to take 10 seconds and the drive is heard to be resetting and clicking a lot...then something is wrong and every hour you put on the drive is probably like 5 if it were a stamped CD...but that doesn't happen with a well burned CD. When I played through Ys IV it behaved exactly as if it were the retail version.

[BlueBMW]

I've been curious about burned CDs etc for a while now.  And since I sent Old Rover a US Duo to do testing of MSR, I needed to figure out how to make burned games that work on original hardware.

I've been using an image of the Gate of Thunder 3 in 1 cd.  Without fail, every time I burn this game, it crashes or near crashes at the intro where bonk is coming into the spot light.  The laser will typically jam up against the outer stop (on a Duo system)

First I tried whatever I had laying around (who knows what brand 80 minute CDRs)  As expected, the laser jammed.

Next I tried some high end Taiyo Yuden 80 minute CDRs... they didn't crash the laser, but it still struggled to read at the point where I usually see them crash.  Sometimes it would get past that point and run, but most of the time it would just re-read and re-read and then quit.  Also, the laser is quite noisy when reading these discs.

I started doing some reading about CDR media and how it works.  There is a lot of talk about dye colors and reflectivity etc, and maybe those things have some bearing on playability.  I was more interested in what I read about the comparison of the different capacities of CDR media.  Apparently, the data track is a long spiral from the inner part of the CD to the outer.  On all CDR media, this distance across the disc surface is the same regardless of capacity.  To attain the larger capacity on say 80 minute discs, this spiral data track is wound more tightly and is smaller in width.  The downside to this is two fold, less room for error since the data track is smaller and also the data is packed much closer, so the distance between the tracks is smaller.  On older players, these smaller, more tightly packed data tracks can be difficult if not impossible to read by an older laser setup.

To test this, I bought some 74 minute MAM CDRs.  First burn of Gate of Thunder worked flawlessly.  The laser made no more noise than if I was using a glass mastered disc.  Maybe this is just dumb luck, but I think the 74 minute vs 80 minute might be the key to problems with burned games.

All my tests were done on a stock original PCE Duo.  (original laser, all original caps, all factory adjustments)

[Mathius]

I've been curious about burned CDs etc for a while now.  And since I sent Old Rover a US Duo to do testing of MSR, I needed to figure out how to make burned games that work on original hardware.

I've been using an image of the Gate of Thunder 3 in 1 cd.  Without fail, every time I burn this game, it crashes or near crashes at the intro where bonk is coming into the spot light.  The laser will typically jam up against the outer stop (on a Duo system)

First I tried whatever I had laying around (who knows what brand 80 minute CDRs)  As expected, the laser jammed.

Next I tried some high end Taiyo Yuden 80 minute CDRs... they didn't crash the laser, but it still struggled to read at the point where I usually see them crash.  Sometimes it would get past that point and run, but most of the time it would just re-read and re-read and then quit.  Also, the laser is quite noisy when reading these discs.

I started doing some reading about CDR media and how it works.  There is a lot of talk about dye colors and reflectivity etc, and maybe those things have some bearing on playability.  I was more interested in what I read about the comparison of the different capacities of CDR media.  Apparently, the data track is a long spiral from the inner part of the CD to the outer.  On all CDR media, this distance across the disc surface is the same regardless of capacity.  To attain the larger capacity on say 80 minute discs, this spiral data track is wound more tightly and is smaller in width.  The downside to this is two fold, less room for error since the data track is smaller and also the data is packed much closer, so the distance between the tracks is smaller.  On older players, these smaller, more tightly packed data tracks can be difficult if not impossible to read by an older laser setup.

To test this, I bought some 74 minute MAM CDRs.  First burn of Gate of Thunder worked flawlessly.  The laser made no more noise than if I was using a glass mastered disc.  Maybe this is just dumb luck, but I think the 74 minute vs 80 minute might be the key to problems with burned games.

All my tests were done on a stock original PCE Duo.  (original laser, all original caps, all factory adjustments)

Mystery solved???

[BlueBMW]

I wont say 100% without further testing with more media... but its at least a plausible cause to CDR reading woes.

[SignOfZeta]

I've had the laser lock all the way out on me a couple of times, and so have a lot of people (usually its those CD-R only folks, IIRC). This is kind of a separate issue or at least a sub-issue of the basic "CD-Rs destroy PCEs" theory though since here we are talking about the sled jamming beyond the end of travel, not wear and tear from focusing too much.

Also, I've only had this happen with an OG Duo. Its never happened on my IFU or my Duo R, so I think it might actually be confined to just the black Duos. Also, it stands to reason that it would only happen with games that use nearly the entire run time of the disc. It happened to me once when I was testing a copy of Dracula X I made for a friend. I can't remember what it was the other time. I don't play CD-Rs all that often and I don't have an OG Duo anymore so its been years since it happened to me.