Magical Chase Waiting List

[Bernie]

Clash, I know. My brother complains to me about the same thing. It's just that I always think of something else I meant to say/add AFTER I hit "post." Anyway, will post more info on release dates and quantity numbers as I receive it. (Always have to double check what I am allowed to post)

And yes, those two user submitted autographs from 2001 are mine. Still have them to this day.

Just edit your original post rather than posting back to back. 

[vestcoat]

In this case though we're talking what, between 10-20 YEARS, and a lot of is prob based off of memories.  Not saying that anyone would lie, but seriously you can remember exact totals, or have documentation from that long ago?  Besides basing everything off of ONE person (possibly fallible/doesn't remember correctly, etc)...no matter who it is, is dubious as it is.    

God, I feel like I'm shouting at a brick wall.  Do you and Hegelson and BT just have some kind of authority complex?  Are you contrarians?  Is it just that you can't stand the thought of other people knowing things that you don't or presenting new information that conflicts with your little window of reality?  

Yes, I willing to rest the crux of my argument on one person.  That one person just so happens to be the most credible source to ever give two shits about the Turbo scene.  And he probably remembered those exact numbers because it was his business to know.  And he was shelling out $500,000 that day.  And he has paper records.

I'm not doing myself or anyone else (beside speculator scum) a favor by arguing MC's rarity.  I'm doing it because it's the only logical conclusion.  If you want to argue, fine, but how about finding your own sources and facts and making some actual claims rather than just throwing up your arms and saying, "Oh f*ck this! How do we know if it's true?  We don't know anything! WHAAA!"

Who's to say that just as many copies of  OoTG weren't lost destroyed (which in all honestly prob sold worse than MC, or DD, etc.)

I've said this five goddamn times, but I'll say it once more just for you.  I won't even use the word "penultimate" in case that's confusing people.  There's a BIG difference between MC and OotG:  MC WAS THE SECOND-TO-LAST TURBOCHIP!  OotG shipped in 1992, the year of the Duo's launch, Air Zonk, and the last big advertising push.  It had a huge window of escape to get the f*ck out of the warehouse and move some units before the bulldozers came.  As far as we know, Darkwing, Tonma, World Sports, and Bomberman had smaller windows, being released in January, February, and March of 1993.  Still, they had a headstart on MC, which was released in July 1993.  The only cartridge to come after it was Bonk 3 in August.  Battle Load Runner was due in October and we know what happened to that.  

Sure, maybe OotG and MC initially had the same print run.  I'll buy it.  You're welcome to sit on your thumbs speculating about each games' popularity and the possibility of Toy's R Us sending leftover stock back until the cows come home....BUT, if you honestly believe that there are fewer copies of OotG out there than MC, you're an idiot.

Trust your bullshit detector.  This story had the mark of truth back when geepee16 told it in 2008 and was shouted down by helgson.  There's no reason to doubt Garwood unless you have evidence to trump it.

[TheClash603]

Battle Load Runner was due in October and we know what happened to that. 

I am going to assume that this game was cancelled, without any move toward actual production...  but I'll admit I don't "know" what happened to "Battle Load Runner."  If my assumption is wrong, I'd love to hear a story or see a link to some info.  I loved Lode Runner.

[nat]

It was finished, and ready to go, but never went to press.

It was eventually released, in finalized form, on the VC some 13-15 years later.

[jayamine]

*awkward silence*

I agree with you vestcoat (MC probably IS rarer than Griffon), but on the flip side there were ONLY 500 copies of say Dynastic ever made PERIOD. There were 1600 copies of MC destroyed, 100 saved by TZD plus who knows how many on retail shelves. Maybe there were 3000 copies of MC made and 3000 of Griffon. I could ask how many Griffons were destroyed that day, but there's so many other variables. How many were shipped to retailers, how many have been lost over time, etc?

Steve commented that it was interesting that the rarest games have not necessarily become the ones commanding the highest price.  (Terraforming is rare, but he commented how hard it was to move that particular title)

But yes, I too think that MC is probably a bit more scarce than Griffon.

Also Vestcoat, where are you getting your release dates from? Would love to see the date list from 1993.

Yes, thanks to Bernie, I have now discovered the beauty of the "modify" button. TY too Nectarsis :-D

[nectarsis]

Clash, I know. My brother complains to me about the same thing. It's just that I always think of something else I meant to say/add AFTER I hit "post." Anyway, will post more info on release dates and quantity numbers as I receive it. (Always have to double check what I am allowed to post)

And yes, those two user submitted autographs from 2001 are mine. Still have them to this day.

There is a Modify button (edit) top right of your post...

[vestcoat]

I agree with you vestcoat (MC probably IS rarer than Griffon), but on the flip side there were ONLY 500 copies of say Dynastic ever made PERIOD.

I'm just talking about Turbochips.  DH might be rarer.  I'd guess that MC got snapped up faster because it's playable on any U.S. hardware.  The hardware requirements for SCD games were a big impediment for a lot of people.

Also Vestcoat, where are you getting your release dates from? Would love to see the date list from 1993.

I'll post some scans.

[nectarsis]

In this case though we're talking what, between 10-20 YEARS, and a lot of is prob based off of memories.  Not saying that anyone would lie, but seriously you can remember exact totals, or have documentation from that long ago?  Besides basing everything off of ONE person (possibly fallible/doesn't remember correctly, etc)...no matter who it is, is dubious as it is.    

God, I feel like I'm shouting at a brick wall.  Do you and Hegelson and BT just have some kind of authority complex?  Are you contrarians?  Is it just that you can't stand the thought of other people knowing things that you don't or presenting new information that conflicts with your little window of reality?  

Yes, I willing to rest the crux of my argument on one person.  That one person just so happens to be the most credible source to ever give two shits about the Turbo scene.  And he probably remembered those exact numbers because it was his business to know.  And he was shelling out $500,000 that day.  And he has paper records.

I'm not doing myself or anyone else (beside speculator scum) a favor by arguing MC's rarity.  I'm doing it because it's the only logical conclusion.  If you want to argue, fine, but how about finding your own sources and facts and making some actual claims rather than just throwing up your arms and saying, "Oh f*ck this! How do we know if it's true?  We don't know anything! WHAAA!"

Who's to say that just as many copies of  OoTG weren't lost destroyed (which in all honestly prob sold worse than MC, or DD, etc.)

I've said this five goddamn times, but I'll say it once more just for you.  I won't even use the word "penultimate" in case that's confusing people.  There's a BIG difference between MC and OotG:  MC WAS THE SECOND-TO-LAST TURBOCHIP!  OotG shipped in 1992, the year of the Duo's launch, Air Zonk, and the last big advertising push.  It had a huge window of escape to get the f*ck out of the warehouse and move some units before the bulldozers came.  As far as we know, Darkwing, Tonma, World Sports, and Bomberman had smaller windows, being released in January, February, and March of 1993.  Still, they had a headstart on MC, which was released in July 1993.  The only cartridge to come after it was Bonk 3 in August.  Battle Load Runner was due in October and we know what happened to that.  

Sure, maybe OotG and MC initially had the same print run.  I'll buy it.  You're welcome to sit on your thumbs speculating about each games' popularity and the possibility of Toy's R Us sending leftover stock back until the cows come home....BUT, if you honestly believe that there are fewer copies of OotG out there than MC, you're an idiot.

Trust your bullshit detector.  This story had the mark of truth back when geepee16 told it in 2008 and was shouted down by helgson.  There's no reason to doubt Garwood unless you have evidence to trump it.

Do you have to be a condescending ass to someone with a differing opinion?


You are the one that seems to have an issue with anyone that has a POSSIBLE idea that "conflicts with your little window of reality."   I'm all for if what's ststaed is exactly right...then we know.  Not entertaining other POSSIBILITIES is narrow minded, and a foolhardy way to get the truth.   Get back to me when everything you stated is set in stone without all the FACTS (you must be REALLY good to know them all when they haven't even been laid out).

Frankly I made solid points (even backed up as some is from memory).  If you want to take a single persons word, have at it...I have seen no PROOF (one persons word without anything to back it up is hearsay, like it or not).  Hell in this case it's second hand info....not that anyone's lying, but as much as someones "the most credible source to ever give two shits about the Turbo scene" (which could be alos it was just as much a business/ to make $ decision for them just as much as anything else), no ONE person is THE HEART AND SOUL/END ALL BE ALL OF ALL THAT IS TURBOB!!!

The fact that you equate someone who ran a business that effectively "extended the legacy of the system" as some savior of the Turbob, than slam BT who MADE GAMES FOR THE SAME SYSTEM (hmmm would that be continuing/supporting a system legacy) seems contadictary.

As for the OotG argument you keep flailing on about...so it had longer to sell thru...a VERY niche game on a small selling system....yep I'll bet those FLEW off the shelf.  If they were still "shelf warmers at the end, they could have easily been a large # in the "smash at the end" deal.    I never said their were fewer copies, but that there could be VERY SIMILAR...you don't know...they could have destroyed 2,000 MC's, and 3,000 Ootg's (so in theory it IS possible there's more MC's than Ootg's...likely no, possible, yes).

While I find the whole deal of printruns, what happened at the end of life of the system as actually interesting, I learned years ago that one person's word (no matter who) CAN be fallible, mistakes made, wrong #'s stated, etc (does he have these records right in fromt of him or is he basing it off figures from a business deal when many of us were still in high school?).  If you can remember exact figures from that long ago...good for you, many wouldn't.

(I'll post in caps so you can follow)   I NEVER SAID ANYTHING STATED IS FALSE/LIES...but if there is irrefutable proof it would be interesting to see.

For someone that has some sad boner to slamming Mike "shouting this down"...when your post here is just as assinine, and insulting as anything you go on and on about Helgeson posting....irony much?   Take 2 steps back from the keyboard if you get THIS damn worked up over this...it's NOT that serious is it?


Also jayamine's post above states there are variables (none of us know)...so you can run around screaming anyone that disagrees is an idiot...yet you DON'T HAVE ALL THE DETAILS....so your "facts"= theory at this point.

[jayamine]

One thing Nectarsis ... 1600 copies of MC were destroyed, not 2000. That was the official stock inventory recorded that day (Bulldozer Day). That number comes literally from an actual piece of official physical paper that has been saved from TTI's office back in 1993. Human eyes looked at that actual piece of official paper last night to get that number. And with forensic lawyers and accountants all over the place that day, I'm confident those documents are accurate.

Now yes, beyond that .. tons of variables. Just saying that's not one of them.

[Black Tiger]

I think that vestcoat's theories are as plausible as anyone else's. But that's all that we're going on here. For whatever small amount of data that is being suggested by people who only had some of the facts, we can spin it any which way, but in the end it's all just speculation.

Magic Chase was a very desirable game with trendy aesthetic and gameplay. OotG was commercial cancer by design. Going by speculation, it's logical to assume that Magical Chase may gave shipped more copies in any time frame than several other Turbo duds. It also makes sense that it would be much more desirable for buyers of the NOS and employees who carted out everything they could carry would all choose MC over so many other games.

In the end though, we don't know. The bulldozing story supports both extremes of there being more or less copies if MC than some other games.

jayamine's impression that MC was never sold at retail was as valid as any until people with first hand knowledge that it was spoke up. What if no one in this forum ever saw MC at retail? Wouldn't this thread then assume that it was mail order only? I only ever saw OotG for rent in a store that imported American Turbo games. Maybe it was never sold in Canada? Maybe, unlike MC it was mail order only?

I think that the fact that MC made it to the bottom of the Alaskan panhandle in a small Canadian town with a population of 10000 is a strong sign that it got substantial distribution for however long of a window.

One thing Nectarsis ... 1600 copies of MC were destroyed, not 2000. That was the official stock inventory recorded that day (Bulldozer Day). That number comes literally from an actual piece of official physical paper that has been saved from TTI's office back in 1993. Human eyes looked at that actual piece of official paper last night to get that number. And with forensic lawyers and accountants all over the place that day, I'm confident those documents are accurate.

Now yes, beyond that .. tons of variables. Just saying that's not one of them.

I don't doubt that that document exists, but those weren't clasdified documents being destroyed, they were video games which are liquid cash. If they were only being destroyed to make them disappear and weren't a safety risk to the public or anything, after every other person with knowledge of their existence had grabbed what they could, who knows how many friends and family were called by the people there that day to walk off with whatever they wanted?

[vestcoat]

The fact that you equate someone who ran a business that effectively "extended the legacy of the system" as some savior of the Turbob, than slam BT who MADE GAMES FOR THE SAME SYSTEM (hmmm would that be continuing/supporting a system legacy) seems contadictary.

BT = Black Tiger.  BT Garner has never weighed in on this subject.

You can doubt everything you want.  If you have other theories, get back to me when you can point to some release dates or industry sources.

EDIT:  Garwood is an industry source.  Read Nanto's interview with him - he worked for TTI.  Until one of his colleagues steps in with a conflicting story, Garwood is the best source we have.

[Black Tiger]

The fact that you equate someone who ran a business that effectively "extended the legacy of the system" as some savior of the Turbob, than slam BT who MADE GAMES FOR THE SAME SYSTEM (hmmm would that be continuing/supporting a system legacy) seems contadictary.

BT = Black Tiger.  BT Garner has never weighed in on this subject.

You can doubt everything you want.  If you have other theories, get back to me when you can point to some release dates or industry sources.

Yes, I have only worked on one game, not plural.

[SignOfZeta]

Considering there are only 500 each of most of those games in existence minus however many have been lost over the decades (in English), I think an unofficial second print would be great. Run them on a press. Make them indistinguishable except for a clear and unmoveable "SECOND PRINT" notation  on the disc and in the instructions.

Nooooooooo. The phrase "second print" implies that it's somehow legit. Any high quality bootleg with these words on it is going to eventually be sold on eBay for $1000 with all sorts of bullshit stories floating around explaining the origin. The Sapphire boots were often described as "second print" and there are STILL people who debate who actually made them.

Retaining most the aspects of the original is fine, but I would remove all claims of copyright and trademarks and make every page of the manual, the cover, the back insert, and the game itself instantly identifiable as fake. Change the color of the logo, mis-spell something (once very popular with UK and Chinese bootleggers), put "Roy Vegas Sucks" on it somewhere, whatever. Just don't say "Second Print". Actual second printings can only come from the original sources. Plenty of TG/PCE stuff actually does have second runs (third, forth, whatever) and it isn't even labeled as such.

[vestcoat]

Here are the scans in a new thread.
Of course, these were upcoming release dates and we know that some of the games were changed or canceled, but I've yet to see a better source of dates for these titles.

[SignOfZeta]

I also wrote that article back in Aug 2006 of games we'd all like to see on Wii's VC. Apparently my work embarrassed Nanto, and Zeta and several others made fun of me and I ran off crying for 5 years. Are we good now?

Oooh, that sounds funny. Do you have a link to that thread?