Greatest HuCard of all time - Poll

[awack]

I removed some of the duplicate frames, that leaves a total of 85 unique character frames.





On top of that, there are  frames with only 3 to 6 pixels separating them from each other, like below, while others only switch out heads, they still count of course. Doesn't seem all that impressive(in relation to this thread), but according to Bonknuts, they are uncompressed, while other types of games,some times use compression for sprites.  





But Bonknuts just posted this about memory use...

I just looked at the SF2 hucard rom in TMOD2. E. Honda is 161k and Blanka is 143k. Assuming you had those two chars for a level, that's ~304k just for the frames. That doesn't include the code (game logic) or animation tables and other LUTs. And thoses frame sets are *packed* and optimized for size. No wasted space there (although uncompressed).

[Bonknuts]

1010 16x16 cells. Or ~128k for Chun Li (ripped from the sf2 hucard rom). No face/portrait frames or other sprites for her.

[Arkhan]

lol, that would make the most irritating slidey-matchup puzzle EVER.

[awack]

So, its about 13 or so Megs out of 20 that are used for sprites, leaving about 7 for sndfx,music, code, BGs and misc....now that i think about it, ken is nothing more than a Ryu sprite with a different head.

Makes you realize that the genesis port had enough extra memory for two new characters and their BGs.

[Arkhan]

So, its about 13 or so Megs out of 20 that are used for sprites, leaving about 7 for sndfx,music, code, BGs and misc....now that i think about it, ken is nothing more than a Ryu sprite with a different head.

Makes you realize that the genesis port had enough extra memory for two new characters and their BGs.

doodoodoodoodooooooooo doodoodoodoodoodoooooooooo doo doodoodoodoo DOO DOODOO DOO DOO.

/Guile

[fragmare]

All this talk about SF2:CE PCE makes me want to revive this project.  I completed all the graphical touch-ups, but nothing ever really got completed.   

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7056.msg118845#msg118845

[Black Tiger]

All this talk about SF2:CE PCE makes me want to revive this project.  I completed all the graphical touch-ups, but nothing ever really got completed.   

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7056.msg118845#msg118845

At least this much did-

http://pcedev.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/sf2-work/

[fragmare]

All this talk about SF2:CE PCE makes me want to revive this project.  I completed all the graphical touch-ups, but nothing ever really got completed.   

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7056.msg118845#msg118845

At least this much did-

http://pcedev.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/sf2-work/

WOA!  That's my bg edit, alright... Tom must've started doing something with it.  O_O

[SignOfZeta]

I'd like you to explain what you are talking about because I'm not a casual player of Street Fighter and I don't see much of anything fundamentally different. They changed the sounds a bit, added assets, it counts combos and reversals. Does the whole game need to be rebuilt to do that? I'd be surprised if anything but the first of the CPS versions were ground-up constructions.

Well, I don't think either of us has enough insider knowledge to truly assert one way or the other. I'm pretty sure, but I don't really have anything to hold up, which seems to be the same for you. So I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree pending any actual evidence either way.

So...even though there was no reason to build the game from the ground up, and no significant appreciable difference in sound, graphics, or gameplay, you are for some reason just assuming that the game was rebuilt from the ground up for Super...well, OK.

My point is that if a ACD version of SSFIIX was to be made by NEC or Hudson you wouldn't have to do that (even if it was done with the CPS versions, which I doubt, see: Occam's razor) and you wouldn't need to port anything from a SNES game (the source for which NEC would't even have access too). Building the game again or porting it from SNES before adding the Turbo elements...those are just needlessly complex directions. There isn't any logical reason whatsoever to do it when %80 of Super Street Fighter II Turbo already exists in the form of SFII'.

Step 1: Re-open the SFII' project

Step 2: Convert project to an ACD (hardest part?) while adding new routines for combo counting and reversal bonus.

Step 3: Add new characters, BGs, endings, moves, and color tweaks.

Step 4: Replace some sounds

Step 5: Compile image, ship, and profit...or more likely, loss

This is, more or less, what SNK did almost every year when KOF came out.

Maybe you guys have forgotten that these are all versions of Street Fighter f*cking II. It didn't change that much at all during those 5 games. In fact, the upgrades to the earlier games were done by swapping a few 24 pin ROMS and keeping the vast majority of the board.

[nodtveidt]

It wasn't rebuilt for Super, and you can tell just by looking at the hardware differences between the PCBs... let alone looking at the dump of the program code. Nearly 90% of the code is unchanged between Champion Edition and Super. There are some minor changes in a few of the state machines (bugfixes, probably) with some additional states added for some characters and a few new control schemes, plus new entities added (for the new characters), some interface changes, and updated sound code can be found in the sound controller portion, with an interesting change in the music playback "flagging" subroutine. Core logic was only enhanced slightly, with some minor tweaks to just a few of the characters' AI cores (Dhalsim, Vega/M.Bison, and Balrog/Vega got the biggest tweaks, but Guile, E.Honda, and Blanka were virtually unchanged from CE... the rest had minor but noticeable tweaks). Underneath all the smoke and mirrors of the shiny new graphics and smooth new sound, the game is still pretty much the same old thing.

SOURCE: what I remember from an old post on romhacking.net, I believe it was...

[spenoza]

So...even though there was no reason to build the game from the ground up, and no significant appreciable difference in sound, graphics, or gameplay, you are for some reason just assuming that the game was rebuilt from the ground up for Super...well, OK.

I didn't say I thought they rewrote the engine from scratch, just that I think it's more than a couple bug fixes. I think they did some digging around and made some significant changes. That doesn't mean they trashed everything and started over. They did re-do an awful lot of the graphics and sound assets. The SFC version didn't update the original character graphics much, if at all, but the arcade did for many of them. So I you are right, in one sense. If they did just another port using the SFC graphical assets it wouldn't be as much change as if they did an original arcade port. But if you're going to create an ACD game, why settle for a SFC port? Why not do it one better and actually show off the hardware? If it's just the same game as the SFC version than why would anyone bother getting the ACD version, unless they just didn't happen to have an SFC?

Rover, % code change isn't nearly as important as what code was changed. You can change only 5% of the code in a project and still end up making massive functional changes.

I'm starting to think this is a matter of perspective, really.

[Bonknuts]

Isn't this whole back and forth between new engine/game written from ground up or just modified existing engine, the context of this discussion? Games tend to exist as engines and not everything hard coded. They're modular and allow changes and adaptations. That's the whole point of the ACD getting SF2. An engine already existed for the PCE via the CE release. You don't need to re-write a new engine from the ground up, thus less development time require/involved and thus less expense to produce the game. That said, any number of things could have been added or redone. You can change the pixel art without having to make a new game (sprites or BGs). I would assume something would have been upgraded or made additional to the ACD port vs the SFC port (other than CDDA). 

WOA!  That's my bg edit, alright... Tom must've started doing something with it.  O_O

 He did. You can call me Watari. I'm one of the few that knows 'T' in real life   Mednafen (a number of builds back) included the new SF2+ mapper support that supports 68megabit hucards (the mapper is simple to make in real life, but the dev cart has to be custom and fairly large in size). It's just a simple extension of the SF2 mapper, but ranges $1ff0 to $1fff instead of just $1ff3. This build, IIRC, was used to test out the new replacement BG (new BG data inserted just pass the 20megabit range of the original).

[Arkhan]

He did. You can call me Watari. I'm one of the few that knows 'T' in real life  

You know you've revealed/admitted yourself to be Tom like 5 different times on here, right?  You can stop pretending you aren't him.  

Just sayin'.


and, back on topic, What would the benefit of SF2CE on SCD have been to people, if it were even possible/done?

I've noticed in the past some people (not on here in particular) prefer SCD games over HuCards almost always.   Is it some doofy placebo effect?

ITS ON CD THEREFORE BETTERER.

We all know this isn't always true.


or something?

[Vecanti]

He did. You can call me Watari. I'm one of the few that knows 'T' in real life  

and, back on topic, What would the benefit of SF2CE on SCD have been to people, if it were even possible/done?

I've noticed in the past some people (not on here in particular) prefer SCD games over HuCards almost always.   Is it some doofy placebo effect?

For me I prefer HuCards.  One because HuCard's are just plain cooler. 2nd it's seems (especially back then) more of a technological feat getting 20meg on to a HuCard and certainly gave a lot of credibility to the system, and of course 3rd HuCards have no load time!

I was personally more curious about it all from a technical limits of the SCD system itself stand point.  In this case it seems that SFII was that barrier.  Pretty interesting discussion. 

[Arkhan]

It depends for me.   but it seems alot of CD games could have been HuCards, but maybe cost/mfg are what made the CD format more useful.

and more reliable!

I sometimes wish CD games had more chiptunes than they do.  Some of the 90s CD audio was so frigging corny.